C6 safety perceptions
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 39,115
Likes: 17,971
From: DFW Area TX
From the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety:
....................Injury... Collision.. Theft
BMW M3 2dr............ 95....... 291....... -
Chevrolet Corvette.... 60....... 138....... -
BMW 3 series 2dr...... 91....... 163...... 111
Loss results are stated in relative terms (100 represents the average result for all vehicles in each loss coverage category). Colors indicate results in relation to the average for all vehicles.
substantially better than average
average
substantially worse than average
So, the FACTS are that Corvette outperforms the M3 by 58% in injury loses and by 111% on collision loses.
I also included the data on the BMW 3 series for Walt White Coupe who would be better off in his Corvette than his 3 series.
....................Injury... Collision.. Theft
BMW M3 2dr............ 95....... 291....... -
Chevrolet Corvette.... 60....... 138....... -
BMW 3 series 2dr...... 91....... 163...... 111
Loss results are stated in relative terms (100 represents the average result for all vehicles in each loss coverage category). Colors indicate results in relation to the average for all vehicles.
substantially better than average
average
substantially worse than average
So, the FACTS are that Corvette outperforms the M3 by 58% in injury loses and by 111% on collision loses.
I also included the data on the BMW 3 series for Walt White Coupe who would be better off in his Corvette than his 3 series.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 787
Likes: 5
From: Kansas
St. Jude Donor '07
Yep. I saw it just last week! 35 mph head on. They have a video of the crash test playing right above the car. Car was crumpled, but the passenger compartment was still in-tact.
Physical evidence that the statement that they are not crash tested is false. So there you go. If that is false, then it lends to the conclusion that everything else this joker has to say is highly suspect.
I won't give this the benefit of another nano-second of my time.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
A couple of comments...
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,877
Likes: 531
A couple of comments...
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,877
Likes: 531
To say that this poster from the BMW boards does not have the faintest clue about the auto business much less the Corvette is putting it mildly. There are so many wild-eyed inaccuracies in his post that it is actually sobering to realize the depth of ignorance there.
Three points, first, it is virtually impossible for any mass-produced U.S. legal vehicle to obtain road certification for use in country without passing EPA emissions and DOT crash testing rules. Rare exceptions are made for low-volume vehicles which have unusual circumstances (Ferrari F430, Lotus Elise etc.) and are granted temporary waivers. The Corvette does not require a waiver to be sold because it is in full compliance with all DOT crash test rules. Incredibly, the BMW poster seems to assume that because NHTSA has not published any official test results for the Vette that no testing was actually done by anyone. Given NHTSA's budget and the number of cars available for sale here the number of cars NHTSA personally tests and publishes results for is comparatively small. Case in point, they do not offer test results on the BMW 6 or 7-Series. Does the BMW poster think this is because no tests were performed or does he just believe that while BMW did them GM surely did not? Is the BMW poster aware that the 4-door 2003-2004 BMW 3-Series cars were flagged as "Safety Concerns" because of their dangerously low ratings in NHTSA front-seat crash testing?
Second, the Corvette's extensive crash testing is publicly well documented in both All Corvettes Are Red and Corvette C6 by Phil Berg wherein the author noted that GM carried out double the number of crash tests on the C6 as they did on the C5.
Personal anecdotes about vehicle crashes are irrelevant. To say that our limited personal observations are significant predictors of the larger world is like saying, "I saw a duck, the duck was black, therefore all ducks are black." In the New York press was a notation just this past Sunday about a fatal wreck on the Southern State Parkway involving a Mercedes SL500. The article notes that there have been 10 such fatalities on that stretch and that one of the spectacular wrecks involved a BMW 7-Series that caught significant air before its final collision. What if anything can one assume about German cars and BMW in particular from that? According to the BMW poster, everything.
As for his feeble claims that BMW offers better components than presumably GM and the Corvette one wonders if he is aware that the available run-flat tires on the Ferrari F430, transmission on the recent Ferrari 456 GTA and the suspension system on Ferrari's flagship 599 are all from GM and the Corvette? Which comparable technology on those high-end cars came from BMW? Someone should also clue him in that many of the transmissions on BMWs are actually sourced from GM and that this has been the case going back about a decade: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_n15976054
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
As to insurance, my previous car was a 1997 BMW M3 coupe. My current car is a 2005 Corvette Convertible, Z51 manual. When I got the Corvette in February of 2005, my insurance rates dropped- same agent, same coverage, same carrier. At least that carrier would appear to think that the Corvette is the safer car. When I say my rates dropped, the total rate was lower, although the collision/comprehensive portion was somewhat higher, but not enough higher to cause the total premium cost to be as high for the Corvette as for the BMW.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,566
Likes: 6
From: Land of 10,000 taxes
A couple of comments...
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
why deal in facts when you can make unproven theories 
opinions are like *******s, everybody has one
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,909
Likes: 2,701
From: Phila Suburbs 2023 C8 & 2013 650ix
A couple of comments...
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
Lot's of good facts here. I still would rather be in my BMW because I know it can take a hit and stay in one piece. Real life testing has proven it to be one of the safest cars in a crash. When the Vette passes those same tests and comes out higher then I will change my mind based on those facts. I doubt that will ever happen. Until then the BMW wins.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 39,115
Likes: 17,971
From: DFW Area TX
A couple of comments...
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
The Vette is a low vehicle that may do well in a crash with a fixed barrier. Unfortunately, there is a high probability in the real world that a Vette will meet up with a vehicle that is significantly higher. The Vette will, because of its wedge shape, have a propensity to go underneath a vehicle in front if rear-ends something or either be a "launch ramp" in a head-on collision. Both of these scenarios mean that the crash structure - all that front-end - will not be able to deform and take most of the energy. Instead, the hit will most likely be to the windshield A-pillar - something we don't want to dwell on.
The Germans put much more emphasis on safety in general. A case in point is the door structure. There is an additional beam in the upper door on the 7-series (maybe 3-series also) that the Vette doesn't have. There are also true side head airbags in those cars that we don't have. Any side impact in one of those sedans is always going to be safer than the Vette with it's Targa top, hybrid side airbag, single door beam, composite panel, etc.
I do think that GM should have donated a C6 to NHTSA for testing to at least show us the "official" result. The offset IIHS test as well. I'm sure that many people have been disappointed to go to these pages and not find any test for the C6.
Lot's of good facts here. I still would rather be in my BMW because I know it can take a hit and stay in one piece. Real life testing has proven it to be one of the safest cars in a crash. When the Vette passes those same tests and comes out higher then I will change my mind based on those facts. I doubt that will ever happen. Until then the BMW wins.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,709
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
St. Jude Donor '06
Unless real test data is made available, I don't know if anyone can really offer a knowledgeable opinion about the Corvette's crash worthiness. I don't think insurance rates are an answer to this question, since they're based on claim history, which includes things like theft and repair costs.
And the typical driver profile.I'll be convinced one way or the other when I see crash testing results.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,909
Likes: 2,701
From: Phila Suburbs 2023 C8 & 2013 650ix
Still not sure exactly what your facts/numbers mean. I went to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety web page where you got them and here are some quotes:
DEFINITIONS
Injury losses indicate the relative frequencies of injury claims per insured vehicle year filed under personal injury protection coverages in the 17 states that offer such coverages. Also called no-fault insurance, personal injury protection coverages pay for medical/hospital/other expenses incurred by occupants of insured vehicles, up to specified limits, regardless of fault in the crash.
What does the fact that most vette owners put limited mileage on their cars per year and that the BMW's are more likely daily drivers play in those numbers. More exposure, more accidents.
And then there is this:
Vehicles with high death rates often have high frequencies of insurance claims for occupant injuries. For example, small 2- and 4-door cars typically have high death rates and higher-than-average insurance injury claims experience. Some vehicles (e.g., sports cars) can have low injury claim frequencies but a high relative rate of severe or fatal injuries because of the manner in which they’re driven.
Without more explaination about these numbers, I wouldn't make the conclusion that the vette is safer than the BMW even though the numbers you quote seem to say that.
I do know that if the vette faired as well as a BMW or Volvo in actual crash testing, GM would be shouting it from the rooftops. That fact that there is no testing is at a minimum suspicous and not comforting.
DEFINITIONS
Injury losses indicate the relative frequencies of injury claims per insured vehicle year filed under personal injury protection coverages in the 17 states that offer such coverages. Also called no-fault insurance, personal injury protection coverages pay for medical/hospital/other expenses incurred by occupants of insured vehicles, up to specified limits, regardless of fault in the crash.
What does the fact that most vette owners put limited mileage on their cars per year and that the BMW's are more likely daily drivers play in those numbers. More exposure, more accidents.
And then there is this:
Vehicles with high death rates often have high frequencies of insurance claims for occupant injuries. For example, small 2- and 4-door cars typically have high death rates and higher-than-average insurance injury claims experience. Some vehicles (e.g., sports cars) can have low injury claim frequencies but a high relative rate of severe or fatal injuries because of the manner in which they’re driven.
Without more explaination about these numbers, I wouldn't make the conclusion that the vette is safer than the BMW even though the numbers you quote seem to say that.
I do know that if the vette faired as well as a BMW or Volvo in actual crash testing, GM would be shouting it from the rooftops. That fact that there is no testing is at a minimum suspicous and not comforting.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,909
Likes: 2,701
From: Phila Suburbs 2023 C8 & 2013 650ix
I have to agree that driver skill and judgement is very important and I would guess the vette drivers are way above the average driver in those skills. Ordinary drivers just don't buy vettes.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Westminster MD
I think a big reason Corvettes are less expensive to insure when compared to teh likes of Camaro and Mustang is demographics of the drivers. Not necessarrily the skill but the fact that as a rule the vette owners are more "mature" and less likely to act the hooligan. For insureance companies, its all a numbers game based on past history.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Sioux City Iowa
St. Jude Donor '06
Ah, don't you love anecdotal evidence. I have personal knowledge (true anecdotal evidence) of a 1972 Vega hit in the driver's door by a full size Oldsmobile at aprox. 55mph. The Vega driver was not wearing a seat belt and survived. (Actually not wearing the belt in this instance probably saved his life as the measurement between the left and right bolts holding the belts was three inches and he was pushed to the other side of the back seat). The point is that it is not logical to conclude that the Vega was a safe car nor that not wearing a belt saves your life.
Rest assured that the C6 has been crash tested. But, as in the case with any anecdotal evidence, I would not trust the NHTSA crashing one car to provide any dependable real world safety information, especially on this type of construction.
Rest assured that the C6 has been crash tested. But, as in the case with any anecdotal evidence, I would not trust the NHTSA crashing one car to provide any dependable real world safety information, especially on this type of construction.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,363
Likes: 1
From: Frisco TX
My insurance is going down about $15 a month going from the M3 to the C6. MSRP of the 2 cars (in my case anyway) is very similar so that is not the driving force.
