Window Valet Got Me!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette Louisiana
Just to be clear
I am very happy with the technical advice and comments from Top Down and feel the same way about Southern Car Parts. Both companies have been great, polite, understanding, and friendly! I am just trying to get comments from other's experience to help make my decision on what to do next. I loved the functionality.
Oakley
Oakley
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
...We took the unit and determined that the Window Valet had been completely submerged in water. It was not simply humid or damp. There were water marks inside the enclosure showing the prior water levels and a water mark of the car's OBDII connector on the mating face of the Window Valet. The circuit was fully corroded from electrolysis since the unit had power while it was wet...
Mr. Fuller, you have gone the extra mile...I don't have a WV yet, but I'll be ordering one in the future.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: san antonio tx
anyway, i've had it in my car for over a year with ZERO problems.
it just does what its designed to do and i love it.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
From: Temecula California
I am very happy with the technical advice and comments from Top Down and feel the same way about Southern Car Parts. Both companies have been great, polite, understanding, and friendly! I am just trying to get comments from other's experience to help make my decision on what to do next. I loved the functionality.
Oakley
Oakley
If I am blessed with owning a C7 this will be a must product before I even take delivery of the car.
SCP's was wonderful to work with too,
2005 C6 works like a champ. Thanks for the write up
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 35,617
Likes: 167
Tech Contributor
Cruise-In 11 Veteran
NCM Ambassador
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'10
Strange happenings. Good presence of mind on your part to think to remove the WV. Thanks to all for their insight in this thread. I guess I'm still lucky that I have my '05. I've used a window valet for four years in C5's and now for two years in my C6. I absolutely love it. I am certain that they will get to the bottom of the issues in the newer C6's. I would not hesitate to get another WV. Nothing better than to drop those windows from across the parking lot and let the heat out of the car before I get in. Thanks Top Down Tech and SCP.
Paul
Paul
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 885
Likes: 7
From: Fort Rucker Area Alabama
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 885
Likes: 7
From: Fort Rucker Area Alabama
First of all, I want to personally thank all our customers. You've been great and very supportive. You guys make it a pleasure serving the Corvette community.
We've seen a handful of failures in C6's recently. In each case, the unit either began working when the customer reinstalled it, or the returned unit tested good here and the replacement that we sent back worked for the customer.
Some technical info: This failure happens when the Window Valet has no ground connection, but still has both a power connection and a data connection. Just a little leakage through the unit between power and data pulls the data line to the busy state. Since the data bus is busy, many of the C6's modules are unable to communicate with each other until the unit is removed and the busy state is cleared. This will result in “weird” behaviors as the C6 catches up with everything on its todo list as soon as the bus is available. This does not and cannot harm the car's electronics.
Failures happen. When we saw the first and second failure, it was alarming to us, but there was little data and no trend. On the third failure, we came up with a theory. Since all three units failed on new 2007's and all three units pass in our lab both before being sent out and after being returned to us by the customer, we suspected a connection issue at the OBDII connector.
On the fourth failure, we passed our theory and solution on to the customer and it worked. We're now working on a documentation addendum to ship with our Window Valet for C6 so that the customer can test the connectivity prior to closing the car's doors. And we are working to get in touch with the right group inside of GM to see it we can nail down the root cause of the problem. If anyone has any contacts, your input would be most appreciated.
As for 1wicked, we have never spoken to her personally, however, her husband was a pleasure to work with. He called/emailed and asked for a military discount. We bent our corporate rules and offered him a 10% discount. He took us up on the offer and surprised us by ordering one for himself and one for his wife. Some time later, he contacted us with a problem. We took the unit and determined that the Window Valet had been completely submerged in water. It was not simply humid or damp. There were water marks inside the enclosure showing the prior water levels and a water mark of the car's OBDII connector on the mating face of the Window Valet. The circuit was fully corroded from electrolysis since the unit had power while it was wet. After questioning, the husband admitted that the car had been soaked and he had found water standing in the passenger floor area. We replaced for free the unit even though it was subjected to a non-warranty event. We do what we can to please our valued customers.
After this incident, 1wicked had the unfortunate luck of having a circuit go bad in her Window Valet. (Failures happen; we may have 1 in 500 units exhibit a hard circuit component failure.) The husband contacted me and we offered to repair or replace the unit (our warranty states that we repair or replace at our sole discretion). He spoke to her and got back to us indicating that she was “not comfortable” with the unit in her car. I could certainly see her point. After all, she had seen two of two failures. We'd rather not have a customer than to have an unhappy one. Unhappy customers can go out of their way to cause lots of grief and bad press. So, we bent our corporate rules again and offered a 100% refund. We expected this to be the happy ending to an unfortunate series of events, FOUR years ago.
Sincerely,
-Michael Fuller, President
Top Down Technologies, Inc.
We've seen a handful of failures in C6's recently. In each case, the unit either began working when the customer reinstalled it, or the returned unit tested good here and the replacement that we sent back worked for the customer.
Some technical info: This failure happens when the Window Valet has no ground connection, but still has both a power connection and a data connection. Just a little leakage through the unit between power and data pulls the data line to the busy state. Since the data bus is busy, many of the C6's modules are unable to communicate with each other until the unit is removed and the busy state is cleared. This will result in “weird” behaviors as the C6 catches up with everything on its todo list as soon as the bus is available. This does not and cannot harm the car's electronics.
Failures happen. When we saw the first and second failure, it was alarming to us, but there was little data and no trend. On the third failure, we came up with a theory. Since all three units failed on new 2007's and all three units pass in our lab both before being sent out and after being returned to us by the customer, we suspected a connection issue at the OBDII connector.
On the fourth failure, we passed our theory and solution on to the customer and it worked. We're now working on a documentation addendum to ship with our Window Valet for C6 so that the customer can test the connectivity prior to closing the car's doors. And we are working to get in touch with the right group inside of GM to see it we can nail down the root cause of the problem. If anyone has any contacts, your input would be most appreciated.
As for 1wicked, we have never spoken to her personally, however, her husband was a pleasure to work with. He called/emailed and asked for a military discount. We bent our corporate rules and offered him a 10% discount. He took us up on the offer and surprised us by ordering one for himself and one for his wife. Some time later, he contacted us with a problem. We took the unit and determined that the Window Valet had been completely submerged in water. It was not simply humid or damp. There were water marks inside the enclosure showing the prior water levels and a water mark of the car's OBDII connector on the mating face of the Window Valet. The circuit was fully corroded from electrolysis since the unit had power while it was wet. After questioning, the husband admitted that the car had been soaked and he had found water standing in the passenger floor area. We replaced for free the unit even though it was subjected to a non-warranty event. We do what we can to please our valued customers.
After this incident, 1wicked had the unfortunate luck of having a circuit go bad in her Window Valet. (Failures happen; we may have 1 in 500 units exhibit a hard circuit component failure.) The husband contacted me and we offered to repair or replace the unit (our warranty states that we repair or replace at our sole discretion). He spoke to her and got back to us indicating that she was “not comfortable” with the unit in her car. I could certainly see her point. After all, she had seen two of two failures. We'd rather not have a customer than to have an unhappy one. Unhappy customers can go out of their way to cause lots of grief and bad press. So, we bent our corporate rules again and offered a 100% refund. We expected this to be the happy ending to an unfortunate series of events, FOUR years ago.
Sincerely,
-Michael Fuller, President
Top Down Technologies, Inc.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,284
Likes: 3
From: Southwest Florida
Not a Window Valet customer myself, but something just isn't adding up here.
Mike
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 3
From: syracuse ny & venice fl when snowing in ny
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Sorry, but something doesn't add up here. Manufacturer finds clear indication of corrosion caused by water and questions customer about it. Customer admits rain got into car but the company refunded it anyway. Customer's wife admits window was cracked and rain got on floor but claims it couldn't have damaged the unit when the OBDII connector is between the window and the floor. How exactly do you know this unit was not damaged by water?
Not a Window Valet customer myself, but something just isn't adding up here.
Mike
Not a Window Valet customer myself, but something just isn't adding up here.
Mike
But, 1wicked is also right; the car was not run off into a lake, nor is that necessary to get water into the WV. Whenever such discrepancies come up, it's better to think about what conditions would confirm BOTH stories, instead of trying to determine which is a liar.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,284
Likes: 3
From: Southwest Florida
Mike
Last edited by mikeyc6; Jun 14, 2007 at 04:04 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Exactly correct.
Note that, as installed, the WV is inverted with the terminal end up with a nice collector rim around the top of the case to catch any water leaking into the terminal end; this water has to drain directly into the electronics below.
If rain and spray collects on the steeing wheel, and is running down the steering column and dash trim...it's quite possible the just a little rain water on the inside of the car could cause you problems with WV. If I were Mr. Fuller, I would use this incident as justification to hermetically seal the terminal end of the unit after assembly.
Note that, as installed, the WV is inverted with the terminal end up with a nice collector rim around the top of the case to catch any water leaking into the terminal end; this water has to drain directly into the electronics below.
If rain and spray collects on the steeing wheel, and is running down the steering column and dash trim...it's quite possible the just a little rain water on the inside of the car could cause you problems with WV. If I were Mr. Fuller, I would use this incident as justification to hermetically seal the terminal end of the unit after assembly.
Last edited by JmpnJckFlsh; Jun 14, 2007 at 04:17 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,865
Likes: 6
From: Saraland Alabama
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
I have a wv on my '02 C5. It works great and I used it several times today as I am in BG with my Corvette club and was in and out of the car several times during the day.
I noticed in some previous posts, mention of a venting feature on the wv. I am asssuming this feature lowers the windows partially. Is that feature on the C5 wv? If so, how would I operate it to lower my windows for venting?
I noticed in some previous posts, mention of a venting feature on the wv. I am asssuming this feature lowers the windows partially. Is that feature on the C5 wv? If so, how would I operate it to lower my windows for venting?