Flex-fuel conversion (E85)
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 0
From: SF Bay Area CA
Flex-fuel conversion (E85)
Oil is close to $100/barrel. In a year or two E85 may be more widely available and it may be more cost effective, so the question is:
Can a flex-fuel conversion be made on current generation C6s? What changes are required to effect that and what could it cost?
Can a flex-fuel conversion be made on current generation C6s? What changes are required to effect that and what could it cost?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,611
Likes: 5
From: Thousand Oaks California
Not correctly.
There are companies that will do this for you, but beware. They shortcut the conversion, as it is not even close to the OEM E85 FlexFuel system.
I would not have this conversion done.
There are companies that will do this for you, but beware. They shortcut the conversion, as it is not even close to the OEM E85 FlexFuel system.
I would not have this conversion done.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,352
Likes: 568
From: Ventura County, Calif
I just saw a consumer alert local news story on this a week or two ago. They explained that many companies offering conversions of existing gasoline systems to E85 DO NOT make ALL the necessary changes. To properly convert a system to true E85 compatible is cost prohibitive. Beware! 
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 0
From: SF Bay Area CA
Of course not, unless GM offers its own conversion kit at some point.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 54
From: slower lower DE
In support of what has already been said, a proper E85 conversion includes changes to the gas tank filler tube and internal changes in the tank itself. There's a lot to be done to do it right. IMO, the cost recovery period would be prohibitive unless your Vette is a daily driver. Then there's the question of whether the changes made in the conversion would somehow impact your ability to meet emissions testing requirements since you would have changed components related to emissions. And lastly, your resale value would take a hit since the reliablity and credibility of the conversion would be at question.
If the market drives more E85 vehicles, GM will respond accordingly.
If the market drives more E85 vehicles, GM will respond accordingly.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,396
Likes: 169
Since 1999, my DD has been an F350 Ford duelly deisel truck (yea, I know, S-T-U-P-I-D !) I don't want to think about how much money I've flushed down the drain in fuel costs. About $600 to $700 a month lately. Most of the time (99.99%) it was just me and the truck. I got fed up last week when it cost $132 to fill that sucker up. I average 6 tanks a month. Went and bought a Saturn Ion on Friday. Filled that little bugger up today. Nine gallons/280 miles/$27 bucks. Do the math. I think the saving's mean new Z06, right?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 45
From: Castleton VA
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
E85 may be great stuff, but it is absolutely brutal for corrosion of the fuel system components; basically, all the metal stuff needs to be stainless steel. Not practical to do the conversion "right" on an existing vehicle at a reasonable cost.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,415
Likes: 154
once the $.50 a gallon fed subsidies for E-85 goes away it will cost as much as gasoline and since flex fuel cars are not optimized in compression ratio for the 105 octane the E-85 is you will loose 15%/20% in fuel mileage. car that are designed to run only on E-85 may do better on MPG
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,835
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Here's a horror story for you.....( since I am old enough to remember it) . Back in the early to mid 70s leaded premium started to be phased out. Our performance cars back then HAD TO have high octane leaded premium or they'd knock themselves to pieces.
You would not believe how fast, on government edict, the leaded premium disappeared! So, with E85 it might not be a question of convenience or price but simply that in some areas we may not even be able to get pure ( or at most 10% ethanol ) gasoline.
Most of the old muscle cars are parked today or have had their compression lowered ( gutted the performance etc ) timing pulled etc. to run on todays junk low octane gasoline.
I really think GM should have made the 08 flexfuel. I know most of your would see it as incomprehensible but it's possible that the fuel required for the C6 and all prior generations of vettes could simply be unavailable at any price soon.
You would not believe how fast, on government edict, the leaded premium disappeared! So, with E85 it might not be a question of convenience or price but simply that in some areas we may not even be able to get pure ( or at most 10% ethanol ) gasoline.
Most of the old muscle cars are parked today or have had their compression lowered ( gutted the performance etc ) timing pulled etc. to run on todays junk low octane gasoline.
I really think GM should have made the 08 flexfuel. I know most of your would see it as incomprehensible but it's possible that the fuel required for the C6 and all prior generations of vettes could simply be unavailable at any price soon.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 6
From: Bedford, TX
I'm going to stay far away from E85. Which isn't hard for me because the nearest station selling it is in Plano, 60+ miles away. The economics of E85 don't make sense when you examine them in any meaningful way. Take away the artificial price supports, factor in the reduced milage and try to extend it to the mass market and it all falls apart.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 54
From: slower lower DE
Just curious - How did you come to that conclusion. Information on conversions indicate that a number of fuel system changes are required due to the corrosive nature and otehr attributes of E85. Also, from the EPA web site, they have not certified any E85 conversion kits.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,089
Likes: 14
That's only the beginning. The entire fuel system has to be modified to tolerate the corrosive properties of alcohol, and to be able to support the higher flow rate required by the lower energy fuel. Tuning has to be changed too, of course. Not only do the fuel tables have to be changed to support a stoichiometric ratio of 9:1, but the timing tables have to be changed to increase spark advance due to the slower ignition (higher octane) of fuel alcohol.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
Since 1999, my DD has been an F350 Ford duelly deisel truck (yea, I know, S-T-U-P-I-D !) I don't want to think about how much money I've flushed down the drain in fuel costs. About $600 to $700 a month lately. Most of the time (99.99%) it was just me and the truck. I got fed up last week when it cost $132 to fill that sucker up. I average 6 tanks a month. Went and bought a Saturn Ion on Friday. Filled that little bugger up today. Nine gallons/280 miles/$27 bucks. Do the math. I think the saving's mean new Z06, right?
Work on the spelling then the Math.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
From: Nevada
Why the dig? the poster was only trying to interject a thought into the discussion and you apparently were able to understand what he was trying to get across. Also nice use of Math as a proper noun.
Last edited by 71stang99; Nov 8, 2007 at 12:26 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,611
Likes: 5
From: Thousand Oaks California
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,027
Likes: 0
From: The Lost Borough, NYC
I wont buy any conversion kits (that can be costly) murphy's law anyone????? 
Id rather trade my current vette in and get a new one that supports E85. Its better that GM does it since an aftermarket conversion kit will for sure void any warranty.
Id rather trade my current vette in and get a new one that supports E85. Its better that GM does it since an aftermarket conversion kit will for sure void any warranty.