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Can't decide between LS3 and Z06? Read me.

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Old 04-27-2008, 12:02 PM
  #41  
KingTut
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Default When your max is less than the car - why get more car?

What I got out of the comparison was to first look inward at our selves and just how hard and far are you wanting to push your car.

If you can or will not be pushing a base car to the limits - why get more car.

Personal needs are what life is all about. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

I do not want a vert but really like the "full moon roof" option, like an auto, want low end quickness so I mod with gears, almost never go over 80 - I am not a prospect for a Z - or for that matter most other sport cars out there - I need a big trunk - carry lots of sporting goods to events - interesting that no one ever mentions that the C5 Z did not have crap for a trunk and at least the 06 Z has a nice one.

Bottom line is that each car has a target audience and with the many available options and mods - most all of us end up with a nice fit of car to desires. Be honest with yourself and look inward to realize what will make you happy and cover your needs.

Last edited by KingTut; 04-27-2008 at 12:05 PM.
Old 04-27-2008, 12:12 PM
  #42  
cerino2000
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One thing I didn't even mention that a few others have touched on is the comparison on the looks. Both look excellent but the widebody really does look awesome. It's the one thing that drivers of all Z's will appreciate regardless of skill level. The cost of doing a full widebody conversion (in particular, doing it right with full matching paint) is really a considerable cost. Some that have done it have put upwards of $10k into the car when all said and done. I really wish GM would offer the widebody as an RPO. That would be great!
Old 04-27-2008, 12:17 PM
  #43  
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Meh... i think the review, while having good intentions was biased. One 30 minute test does not a good opinion make. Imagine this, imagine for 2009 GM stated that the Corvette C6 will offer: 505HP from 436, a dry sump oil system, a different frame, etc etc You get the point. Now imagine what people would say when they test drove the new "c6." I guarantee it would all be about how much better handling, faster, better looking the 2009 model is. You know why I say that? Because that is exactly what MANY people were saying about the 436 2008 model compared to the 400hp model. I mean at SOME point there IS a difference in horsepower.

I always see this statement: "You never really use all that power anyways." So at what point does that hold true? Was it with the 350HP C5? Or could you use that much but not the 400HP C6? Or is it now 436HP? I think the answer is, "whatever car I have currently is more than enough" because that helps justify the purchase.

The reality is that you can tell the difference and it ultimately comes down to an issue of money. But for those z06 onwers money was probably not the issue and it is more than worth it. You get more exclusive looks and better looks. You get 70 more HP. You get dry sump oil (huge) and a host of other features. Its DEFINITELY worth it....if you can afford it.
Old 04-27-2008, 12:18 PM
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I've got an 05 Z51 and really wish I had waited for the 06Z. As it is, I'm stuck with the car for the next few years (like thats a bad thing ). I love the car and its mods at this point. A new cam is most likely coming this fall as well. However, if I had the choice now, a new LS3 or C6Z...be it an 06 or newer, I'd take the C6Z. Hell, I'd take one right now over my current LS2. I race my 05 quite a bit and just looking at the times for the C6Z, there is no comparison stock vs stock. Driver skill plays into any race. I've got two C6Z victories in the 1/8th mile. My car was not faster, the driver was just not good. If had I to choose today between an LS2 and LS3, I'd take the LS3. Unless of course it was Dennis50nj car
Old 04-27-2008, 12:35 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ls3fast
the z is great but i have 08 ls3 header/ intake / pulley /x pipe / hp tuner/ z06 caliper an rotor/ and z06 body front and rear fender inc front bump and i make more power than z06 loks like z06 and i spend like 53g my opp buy ls3 good look
Where does this start? Where does it end? What are you trying to say?
Old 04-27-2008, 12:36 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Dave Hopkins
Meh... i think the review, while having good intentions was biased. One 30 minute test does not a good opinion make. Imagine this, imagine for 2009 GM stated that the Corvette C6 will offer: 505HP from 436, a dry sump oil system, a different frame, etc etc You get the point. Now imagine what people would say when they test drove the new "c6." I guarantee it would all be about how much better handling, faster, better looking the 2009 model is. You know why I say that? Because that is exactly what MANY people were saying about the 436 2008 model compared to the 400hp model.
Wow!!!! I have been here for 5 years and thats one of the best, most logically, eloquently stated points I have ever seen since I have been here.

You are 100% right. You would not have a single solitary 505hp 2009 coupe or vert owner, who had come over from a previous 2008 coupe or vert, tell you that he could not tell the difference from his previous 2008 to his 2009 car. Especially if he could make the change for say $15,000.00 as opposed to $25,000.00. A 69-75hp increase in their '09 coupe or vert vs their '08 coupe or vert for 15K and they'd all tell you how big of a difference it was


Originally Posted by Dave Hopkins
I always see this statement: "You never really use all that power anyways." So at what point does that hold true? Was it with the 350HP C5? Or could you use that much but not the 400HP C6? Or is it now 436HP? I think the answer is, "whatever car I have currently is more than enough" because that helps justify the purchase.

The reality is that you can tell the difference and it ultimately comes down to an issue of money. But for those z06 onwers money was probably not the issue and it is more than worth it. You get more exclusive looks and better looks. You get 70 more HP. You get dry sump oil (huge) and a host of other features. Its DEFINITELY worth it....if you can afford it.
I certainly think so. But it comes down to needs, wants, and what our wallets can handle.

I am a firm believer that with a Vette, or any other toy, buy the one which you can comfortably afford.

If you can't afford it, and will be struggling to pay for it, thats going to take a lot of the fun out of the ownership of it.

I look at some of the guys who were paying all of this money above sticker for Z06s back in early 2006, ......honestly, had I done that, ownership of the car would be a lot less fun for me. However now thats just me. Some who paid above sticker are still as happy as a lark.

As for Cerrino, if having your Z51 does it for you, fills your wants, needs, and satisfies your wallet, then there is no need to spend another 25K.

For me the upgrade was worth an extra 25K because 25k didn't strain me. But now if 25k had been a big strain on my finances, then I can tell you that it would certainly not have been worth it.

So to what everyone else has already said, I'd add this. If its going to strain you to go from a C6 to a Z06, then don't even bother test driving the Z06. You are probably going to be underwhelmed if your wallet is speaking loudly to you. There is nothing that Z06 can show you, if you already have it made up in the back of your mind that it is going to be a financial strain to swing it.

It might as well be a Ferrari Enzo, you are thinking of trading up to, and if your wallet is screaming loudly enough, you are still going to be underwhelmed to the point to where you aren't going to drop another 25k.

Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 05-10-2008 at 02:43 AM.
Old 04-27-2008, 12:43 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by foremaw
Perhaps. However, I wouldn't exactly call it an objective comparison of the two cars. He took one test drive and then made a flat statement that the Z06 is not worth the price difference. I have no problem with that at all, that's his personal opinion. I happen to disagree, understanding that the $25K goes into some pretty significant differences from the frame up that might not be apparent or relevant to him. I appreciate both cars and have never felt the need to detract from either one.
Excellent post

Old 04-27-2008, 01:05 PM
  #48  
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Changed some things in the original post. I think that it applies equally as well as the original. The LS2 is a stout motor. I've driven all 3 (LS2, LS3, and LS7) and for everyday purposes, they're all similar. To me, the 36hp difference from LS2 to LS3 is not as noticeable as the 69hp diff between LS3 and LS7. But that's just me, and that's why I went with a Z.




Originally Posted by cerino2000
If you are trying to decide between a 400hp LS2 and a 436HP LS3, I'd like to offer a comparison for you. I have had the bug to bump up from my 07 Z51 car to an 08 Z51 NPP. I have my car for sale willing to take a considerable loss after only 6 months to make the jump...well...that is until today.

I was bored so I gathered up one of my best car buddies and we went cruising around hitting up a few dealers that have one in stock. My local dealer is willing to make me a great deal on my car but I am currently waiting for allocation to hit.

One dealer I found turned out to be an awesome experience. To make it short, he threw me the keys to an 08 LS3 NPP with 7 miles on it and said "Take it out for a while and see what you think"

Me: Ummmm....ok.

I won't drag this on too much. From a drivers perspective:

Feel while regular driving is no different than my regular ol' 07. In fact, other than the FRCs under the hood, it's pretty much the same. I can't tell the difference between the two. My 07 has an aftermarket exhaust so even sound wise there isn't much difference.

The brakes do not have a different feel to them, and honestly, the brakes in my car are pretty damn good.

Transmission feels the prettu much the same same as my 07 car, maybe a little smoother. No difference to me.

Getting on it was the biggest shocker. I drove an 08 a few months ago in colder weather. Any attempt to nail it in first gear resulted in the tires spinning like crazy. I am now thinking that it was a matter of cold roads and 5000 miles on the 08's tires. I actually questioned the C6 General section on how the heck they get the power to the road. This new 08 stuck to the road beautifully. But here's where the shocker is. I never thought I would say this but I wasn't THAT impressed. Don't get me wrong, it was impressive. It sounded great and really will set you back but honestly: my LS2 is fast as hell too and it will set you back in the seat. Is the difference between the LS2 and the LS3 a lot? Well, not as much as between the say, LS7. Power difference between the LS2 and the LS3 isn't as impressive. Ya, I spanked this brand new car up to 6000 RPM. Did it a few times in fact. You bet your rear end I'm going to get a feel for it before committing to such a huge expense.

Handling wise, I found a particular piece of road that would allow me to put some G's to work. 08 didn't wow me any more than my 07 Z51 car does.

So here's a summary of the whole thing that I feel is relevant to MOST people: Is the 08 $10k more impressive than my 07 Z51 car? No. It's not.

Now, if I was the type of person that goes out and races my car on a regular basis, (in particular, if I was the type of person that was really going to push the car to the limits thus being a person that would need the extremes that an LS3 could provide), the 08 would be the way to go. The extent of the drive that I took today pretty much covers the area of thresh-holds that I would put the car through and the fact is, these thresh-holds are within the scope that my Z51 car can handle.

I consider myself an absolute car enthusiast with better than average driving skills. The LS2 Z51 with aftermarket exhaust does everything I need it to do. I don't think I will be dropping all that extra cash for benefits that I likely will not be able to really appreciate. New? No. Used for a really really good deal: probably.

Hope this direct comparison helps someone trying to decide which one to go with.
Old 04-27-2008, 02:56 PM
  #49  
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I have a 2008 C6 Z51 A6 coupe with every single factoy RPO option that I purchased on 12/31/07 that had an MSRP of approximately $62,000+

My corvette is strictly a spring/summer warm weather weekend driver and will not see any track time or abuse.

When narrowing down what Corvette model I would purchase, one requirement was that I needed an automatic due to a chronic ankle injury and arthritis. Having to constantly depress a clutch peddle would be a physically painful experience that would totally ruin the corvette driving and enjoyment experience.

So with that said; the Z06 was unfortunately not an option for me.

But had the Z06 been available with an auto/paddle shifter transmission, I would have purchased the Z06 without any further thought or hesitation.

The less than 20k difference of the 08 Z06 when compared to my fully optioned LS3 for the Z06's aluminum and magnesium frame and engine cradle, handbuilt engine with exotic titanium forged components, dry sump oiling system, 6/4 piston fixed calipers, carbon fiber fenders is an absolute bargain whether you intend to leave the Z06 stock or plan to use its base platform to modify.

The LS3's 36 additional HP when compared to the LS2 is an increase in both HP and Torque thoughout the entire RPM band. At the time of purchase I could have bought a similiarly equipped 07 LS2 C6 for about 8K less than my 08 LS3.

When driving both the 07 LS2 and the 08 LS3; I could feel an absolute difference in torque of the new LS3 engine which of course made my decision to buy the LS3 a no-brainer. The beefier LS3 engine, revised steering and transmission shift points in the 08 made any savings on an 07 LS2 seem not worth it.

And with that said; the additional 20k for an 08 Z06 with its additional 69 horsepower thought out the LS7's entire RPM band and all of the additional added features as outlined above makes the Z06 a true bargain.

I am extremely satisfied with my 08 LS3 purchase but only wished they would have offered the Z06 with an automatic with paddle shifters.

I'm sure that GM has some reason why the Z06 is only available with a manual transmission and fixed roof, but I wonder how many more Z06's would be sold if GM in fact offered the Z06 with an optional auto tranny and removable targa roof.
Old 04-27-2008, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cerino2000
One thing I didn't even mention that a few others have touched on is the comparison on the looks. Both look excellent but the widebody really does look awesome. It's the one thing that drivers of all Z's will appreciate regardless of skill level.
Old 04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
  #51  
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Had the '05 as you know. Currently have the '08 Z06. I drove C6-forRJ's '08 LS3 vert and there is still no comparison. The Z is brutally fast. The LS2 and LS3's are fast. It's just a matter of what you want.

If you go the Z route, be ready to spend big on tires.

I still miss the targa top from the '05. Racing my Z with a fixed roof is cramped.

Old 04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Dave Hopkins
Meh... i think the review, while having good intentions was biased. One 30 minute test does not a good opinion make.
The car may not "feel" diff on the street, but last week on the road course against both of those cars, the difference was easily noticed. A car that brakes harder, has more hp, and of course a good driver, is a force to be reckoned with on a track.
Old 04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
  #53  
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06quick, you keep referencing the financial strain. That's not an issue for me however I try to keep my car lust at bay vs. my checkbook
I don't want to tell you how much money I have donated to car dealerships in trading vehicles!

427cpe, exactly my point as stated in the original post. If you track your car and can really use all that the Z06 has to offer, (and you can afford it) then there simply is no substitute. But why drop the change on it if you never use it? Seems kinda silly.
Old 04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
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If the ZO6 was available as an auto, I would have considered it as well. I do not want to deal with a stick in LA traffic. I have not driven a new ZO6, but I bet I could tell the difference. And yes if the C6 was available with 505 hp I would want it.
Old 04-27-2008, 03:35 PM
  #55  
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Hulks daddy, that's pretty funny. Can't say the LS2 ever really did it for me the whole way but the LS3 certainly does. I have owned both and me and the drag strip can tell ya, the LS3 is faster. The LS2 would fall on it's face...a lot (heat soak seems to affect it harder). My LS3 just keeps on pulling. I don't know how much of that is due to the tune they put on the LS3 but the difference is very noticeable. I do really think that the tune is less restrictive in the LS3 and that's where part of it's performance benefits are at. The Z would be icing on the cake for sure however not at that heavy of an expense. Now a used one priced right with the right miles...done deal.

Oh ya, the reason your custom version of my post doesn't work is because the price difference between and LS2 and LS3 is minimal. There is a lot of difference between an 08 and earlier coupes. If the price is minimal, it seems foolish to go with the earlier ones. Compare that to what it takes to move up to an LS7. Not minimal.

Last edited by cerino2000; 04-27-2008 at 03:39 PM.
Old 04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Dave Hopkins
..... You know why I say that? Because that is exactly what MANY people were saying about the 436 2008 model compared to the 400hp model. I mean at SOME point there IS a difference in horsepower....
You have missed one very important point. The 436 hp 08 costs almost the same as a 400 hp 07 - not $25,000 more. And I think that is the real point that Cerino was making. He never said the Z06 was not faster or better, the way I read it is that he said it is not worth the difference in price.
Old 04-27-2008, 04:02 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by cerino2000
06quick, you keep referencing the financial strain. That's not an issue for me however I try to keep my car lust at bay vs. my checkbook
I don't want to tell you how much money I have donated to car dealerships in trading vehicles!

427cpe, exactly my point as stated in the original post. If you track your car and can really use all that the Z06 has to offer, (and you can afford it) then there simply is no substitute. But why drop the change on it if you never use it? Seems kinda silly.
You were doing good right up until this post. "But why drop the change on it if you never use it? Seems kinda silly.". You can say that about most cars, and especially the Corvette. 95% or more of all Corvette drivers will never push the car anywhere nears its potential. Unless you track a 186MPH car, where are you going to push it? Its the same with all purchases like this, you buy what you want, and just because you don't use it, doesn't make that purchase wrong.

How many people here bought a Z51 option and don't track it? You seem to be saying that they wasted their money. Why? If some one wants to have the Z51 package and never go near a track, that's okay. Most don't seem to think they wasted their money. My older brother bought a 06 Z06 2 years ago. He doesn't track it or race it. He loved the looks, the feel, and loved the idea of having over 500HP under the hood. He couldn't be happier, and he'll never get anywhere near 200MPH in it. I bought a base C6, more than enough of a car for me. Do I even come close to pushing the C6 to its full potential? Not at all. I don't think I wasted my money buying this car, even though I never push it near its potential. I love the looks, the feel, and the performance (for the little that I use it).

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Old 04-27-2008, 04:08 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by jschindler
You have missed one very important point. The 436 hp 08 costs almost the same as a 400 hp 07 - not $25,000 more. And I think that is the real point that Cerino was making. He never said the Z06 was not faster or better, the way I read it is that he said it is not worth the difference in price.
But it would cost about 15k to upgrade from an existing LS2 based C6 to an LS3 based C6 and I think thats a key point which cannot be overlooked in Dave's assessment.

There are few who have spent that 15k to get that extra 30- 36 horsepower in going from an LS2 based C6 to an LS3 based C6, who will tell you that it wasn't worth it.

And what I am reading from what he is saying is: IF all of a sudden, they had announced at the bash this past weekend, that the '09 base Vette would have 505 horsepower as opposed to 430-436hp, how many with '08s would be coming out of the woodwork, 15K in hand, looking to get one of those 505hp 2009 aluminum frame, wide body, bigger brakes, etc, base C6s?

And after they test drove and or purchased, how many would say that they could not tell the difference?

I think at least part of the original poster's assessment is influenced to some extent, by how much money he presently has in his current car, and how much outlay will be required to go from his current '08 car to that '08 Z06.

Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 05-10-2008 at 02:47 AM.
Old 04-27-2008, 04:10 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jschindler
You have missed one very important point. The 436 hp 08 costs almost the same as a 400 hp 07 - not $25,000 more. And I think that is the real point that Cerino was making. He never said the Z06 was not faster or better, the way I read it is that he said it is not worth the difference in price.
some upgrades

frame
floors
just about every if not every body panel.
entire driveline
brakes
tires
wheels

I can easily see a $25k price difference. What does the Z06 share with a standard Vette that should be the question.
Old 04-27-2008, 04:14 PM
  #60  
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coming from a person who loves power, and who has driven both a z06 and LS3, i will be going with the LS3 mainly for the fact that i can get it with a targa...otherwise the Z would be in the garage. This is just a feature i have been drooling over for years, so i will not let a little more power this time stand between it.

in the end it is to each their own...going either way you will probably have to sacrifice something you wanted in the other choice.


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