On-line today at cnn.com:http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/13/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

BMW is recalling 200k cars (mostly 3-series) because of a defect that renders the airbag system useless in a crash. Oops.

For all those b*tching and moaning about GM's so-called quality gap, here is the vaunted BMW having to eat millions in recall costs over a big boo-boo, not just a paint defect or some other small thing.

 

I don't really think BMW is the epitome of quality. I hear they have issues here and there alot. In terms of quality I would have to put Toyota/Lexus at the top though. I would also put them at the top for reliability. This is not from perception but my own experience of owning many different cars. Even though quality and reliability are almost the same their are differences. Out of the big 3 I would have to say GM is at the top in reliability and maybe even quality.

 

Exactly. It is not just GM that has problems. All auto makers have problems. The only difference is that GM is the one that gets in the news right away when something happens. My brother's '04 Solara had a recall, but it was not announced. Toyota has had their share of recalls as well. The 4 Runner and their trucks were recalled recently, but it was not in the news. If it was GM, it would have been in the news right away.

 

It's bound to happen even more when a company loses $15.5 billion.

 

I personally know of two C6 Z06 Vettes that were in crashes with frontal impact, no air bag deployment in either.

 

I think GM quality is on a par with the best. BMW has had numerous electrical problems in the last 3 -4 years.
Gm's biggest problem in my estimation is their dealer network.

 

Sir William Lyons, the founder of Jaguar, once said, "Creating a car is the closest thing to creating a living being.”
Given how many defective human beings there are on the planet, it's amazing the there are so few, relatively speaking, defective cars!

 

Besides being a smart "marketing" method, can anyone tell me why several years ago, BMW went to the all-inclusive, 3-year maintenance thing on new cars?

 

I don't know the details of the crashes but keep in mind that the airbags are designed to deploy based on inertia not speed. There are ***** in a tube that are held in place by magnets. It takes a certain amount of inertia in a certain direction to cause the ***** to travel down the tube and make electrical contact. You could hit a wall of empty cardboard boxes at 80 mph and not deploy the airbags. Or, you could hit a steel wall at 17 mph and deploy them.

It's no fun having an airbag go off in your face or slam your arms into your nose so they only go off when it is absolutely necessary.

 

IF you think today's German vehicles are an epitome of quality you are wrong. They aren't - haven't been for a long time. That title goes to the Japanese. If you acquire a Toyota product (anything from a Scion to a Lexus) it is VERY realistic to think you could drive it for 50,000 miles or more and have absolutely NO problems. They are that reliable. Don't bet that on any German car - you'll lose (I know from experience).

The problem is most Toyota products are boring to drive. Germans DO know how to make a car that handles well and is fun to drive.

One of the major differences between manufacturers and recalls is how the manufacturer deals with the whole experience. When Toyota first launched Lexus I recall that every early LS model had to be recalled because of a potential problem that could lead to a fire. Lexus was straight-up about it and did everything they could to compensate the owner for the inconvenience. Time has proven that episode didn't hurt them one bit. Most American manufacturers intially go into a denial mode and have to be literally forced by the government into a recall. Ford is probably the most notable for this.

I've had BMWs - and would buy one again in a heartbeat if they could offer the performance a Vette does at the same price point. Unfortunately, they can't.

 

I love my vette, BUT...There is a reason why Honda, Toyota, Lexus and BMW's have better re-sale values over "GM" products. It's call reliability and dependability. I'm not bashing GM, in fact the vette has one of the best re-sale history there is. But over-all, the imports are just better made cars! That's why a used Accord is worth alot more than a used Impala! Just facts..Ask any experienced auto broker/dealer.

 

Case in point: I like to watch Top Gear on the BBC. While I tend to disagree with the guys opinions about American cars, the show is very funny and a blast to watch.

I recall, numerous times, that the guys joke around about how "You can buy a beautiful Aston Martin, and as is tradition, it'll be in the shop the following month." And the hosts are British!

ALL cars have issues, all of them.

 

That's an interesting question, but I can imagine the reasons.

I look at the airlines, most of them are now charging for meals and luggage from bag one or two, and premiums for seats just behind first or business class. The free stuff is vanishing as the airlines attempt to become profitable.

If the auto industry continues to struggle with profitability, they too will be forced to cut additional costs in manufacturing and/or after sale services such as long-term warranties or free maintenance.

 

BMW may be the only ones still doing it. Audi had it but dropped it in 2007. It doesn't really save all that much - only a few oil changes (because they'll run the change out until their onboard monitor says it is due which is usually around 10,000 miles) and an air filter during the warranty period.

 

It may have had to do with the perception among those who had not owned BMWs that maintenance/service costs were incredibly expensive. It seems like a great marketing ploy to negate a concern that may have kept many from purchasing BMWs. I do know that when BMW started picking up the tab for service, their recommended oil change interval mysteriously increased thereby not requiring service as often. I love BMWs but can't get into the Bangle design.

 

 

You are correct. And the WAY they handled it was so extraordinary for the time, 1990, that it made the front page of the Wall Street Journal, right hand column. That article, alone, probably got more sales for Lexus than 3 year's worth of the "rock-and-water" ads of Infiniti.

 

True, but why is it that you only hear about the American car companies when the have recalls and other car companies are buried.

 

Partially correct: there IS the perception that an initially-expensive car like a BMW will cost you a lot to maintain, which keeps people out of the showrooms. However, the other reason quietly put forth by BMW was the actual fact of overall cost of owning a new BMW during this time period. In those first few years. A case where perception and reality, merged. Regardless, don't think for a minute that BMW is losing money on this program; they're not.

And Audi's use of the "everything-included" for many, many years had nothing to do with its relative initial cost to buy. It had everything to do with its reputation and the company's sales in America going into the toilet in the mid'80s due to the slander known as "unintended acceleration."

I don't recall the exact figures (someone will chime in, maybe), but their sales dropped to something like 25% of what they had been. The 4000 and 5000 models that had been their best sellers (even tho their Quattros got most of the publicity) had difficulty even being put on a used car lot, let alone being sold once it got there.

 

Both head-on into a guardrail at 25 to 40 mph.