Autoweek tests the new ZR1
08-23-2008, 04:21 PM
#21
Drifting
I was being sarcastic in my claim.
I get a kick out of the way many "old school" people insist that the older stuff was faster than the new stuff.
In truth and "stock for stock" (i.e. as they rolled off the assembly lines in their RPO configurations), neither a ZL1 nor an L-88 has anything on the '01 LS6 (385 SAE NET HP).
The old stuff is great from a nostalgia point of view, but it's hard to argue with modern engines from a performance point of view.
I get a kick out of the way many "old school" people insist that the older stuff was faster than the new stuff.
In truth and "stock for stock" (i.e. as they rolled off the assembly lines in their RPO configurations), neither a ZL1 nor an L-88 has anything on the '01 LS6 (385 SAE NET HP).
The old stuff is great from a nostalgia point of view, but it's hard to argue with modern engines from a performance point of view.
08-23-2008, 07:51 PM
#22
http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml
They could produce ~ 524 Gross HP with open long tube racing headers, no engine accessories, no air cleaner and with optimized carb and ignition tuning. Anything much beyond that required cylinder head work and, in all likelihood, more cam.
They REQUIRED 104 octane (RON) racing fuel and won't idle in traffic for more than a few minutes with over-heating, fouling plugs, loading up, etc. They weren't truly streetable nor were they ever intended to be. They didn't even come with fan shrouds, for example and many (all) didn't even have heaters.
Here's how ZL1s ran "sub 11 second" quarter miles:
http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/index.htm
"Chevrolet enthusiasts still living in the bygone musclecar era might argue the 1969 Corvette with the ZL1, all-aluminum, 427 was the quickest production example ever built. Unfortunately, most performance numbers for ZL1s are urban legend that came out of a media preview held at the GM Milford Proving Ground a generation ago.
"In the summer of 1968, the press sampled two special, ’69 ZL1s. The first was a partially-gutted, 3000lb, white convertible fitted with the optional hardtop and set up by Chief Engineer, the late Zora Duntov, himself with road racing suspension, open headers and race tires–hardly production trim. It ran the quarter in 12.1 at 115mph. The second was red coupe built for drag racing by development engineer Gib Hufstader (who today, though semi-retired, still consults to GM Racing) with a 4.88:1 rear end, open headers, a race-prepared Turbo-Hydramatic 400 automatic and 9-in. slicks–again, hardly production equipment. That car usually ran low 11s and dipped into the 10.9s at 132mph when launched with a neutral start.
I was unable to find tests of one of the three production ZL1s sold but tests of stock 1969s with L88 engines (116 of these were built with an iron-block, aluminum-head 427 about 15hp shy of the ZL1) ran low-13s. Figure 15 more horses and 100 less pounds worth of ZL1 might have gotten you a 12.9.
The 2002 Z06 will run mid-12s on stock tires, with street exhaust, on pump gas, with all emissions controls working, equipped with air conditioning and at curb weight. Sounds like the quickest, production Corvette to me."
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 08-23-2008 at 09:09 PM.
08-24-2008, 06:23 PM
#24
The ZL1 produced 376 SAE NET HP in its "as delivered" (SAE NET) state, with OEM manifolds, exhaust system and all engine accessories in place.
http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml
They could produce ~ 524 Gross HP with open long tube racing headers, no engine accessories, no air cleaner and with optimized carb and ignition tuning. Anything much beyond that required cylinder head work and, in all likelihood, more cam.
They REQUIRED 104 octane (RON) racing fuel and won't idle in traffic for more than a few minutes with over-heating, fouling plugs, loading up, etc. They weren't truly streetable nor were they ever intended to be. They didn't even come with fan shrouds, for example and many (all) didn't even have heaters.
Here's how ZL1s ran "sub 11 second" quarter miles:
http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/index.htm
"Chevrolet enthusiasts still living in the bygone musclecar era might argue the 1969 Corvette with the ZL1, all-aluminum, 427 was the quickest production example ever built. Unfortunately, most performance numbers for ZL1s are urban legend that came out of a media preview held at the GM Milford Proving Ground a generation ago.
"In the summer of 1968, the press sampled two special, ’69 ZL1s. The first was a partially-gutted, 3000lb, white convertible fitted with the optional hardtop and set up by Chief Engineer, the late Zora Duntov, himself with road racing suspension, open headers and race tires–hardly production trim. It ran the quarter in 12.1 at 115mph. The second was red coupe built for drag racing by development engineer Gib Hufstader (who today, though semi-retired, still consults to GM Racing) with a 4.88:1 rear end, open headers, a race-prepared Turbo-Hydramatic 400 automatic and 9-in. slicks–again, hardly production equipment. That car usually ran low 11s and dipped into the 10.9s at 132mph when launched with a neutral start.
I was unable to find tests of one of the three production ZL1s sold but tests of stock 1969s with L88 engines (116 of these were built with an iron-block, aluminum-head 427 about 15hp shy of the ZL1) ran low-13s. Figure 15 more horses and 100 less pounds worth of ZL1 might have gotten you a 12.9.
The 2002 Z06 will run mid-12s on stock tires, with street exhaust, on pump gas, with all emissions controls working, equipped with air conditioning and at curb weight. Sounds like the quickest, production Corvette to me."
http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml
They could produce ~ 524 Gross HP with open long tube racing headers, no engine accessories, no air cleaner and with optimized carb and ignition tuning. Anything much beyond that required cylinder head work and, in all likelihood, more cam.
They REQUIRED 104 octane (RON) racing fuel and won't idle in traffic for more than a few minutes with over-heating, fouling plugs, loading up, etc. They weren't truly streetable nor were they ever intended to be. They didn't even come with fan shrouds, for example and many (all) didn't even have heaters.
Here's how ZL1s ran "sub 11 second" quarter miles:
http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/index.htm
"Chevrolet enthusiasts still living in the bygone musclecar era might argue the 1969 Corvette with the ZL1, all-aluminum, 427 was the quickest production example ever built. Unfortunately, most performance numbers for ZL1s are urban legend that came out of a media preview held at the GM Milford Proving Ground a generation ago.
"In the summer of 1968, the press sampled two special, ’69 ZL1s. The first was a partially-gutted, 3000lb, white convertible fitted with the optional hardtop and set up by Chief Engineer, the late Zora Duntov, himself with road racing suspension, open headers and race tires–hardly production trim. It ran the quarter in 12.1 at 115mph. The second was red coupe built for drag racing by development engineer Gib Hufstader (who today, though semi-retired, still consults to GM Racing) with a 4.88:1 rear end, open headers, a race-prepared Turbo-Hydramatic 400 automatic and 9-in. slicks–again, hardly production equipment. That car usually ran low 11s and dipped into the 10.9s at 132mph when launched with a neutral start.
I was unable to find tests of one of the three production ZL1s sold but tests of stock 1969s with L88 engines (116 of these were built with an iron-block, aluminum-head 427 about 15hp shy of the ZL1) ran low-13s. Figure 15 more horses and 100 less pounds worth of ZL1 might have gotten you a 12.9.
The 2002 Z06 will run mid-12s on stock tires, with street exhaust, on pump gas, with all emissions controls working, equipped with air conditioning and at curb weight. Sounds like the quickest, production Corvette to me."
The old cars did exactly one thing better than the new ones do, they sounded better. There's something about pipes without cats in them that just plain sound better. Also, those old bias-ply tires chirped just right between every gear without running a drag race. The new cars are better in nearly every way, but I miss the sounds. (Not the smells, though. Old cars and modern gasoline do not mix...)
08-25-2008, 08:21 AM
#25
Oh for heavens sake, why are you posting a well-researched, fact-filled, well-written post on this forum? Don't you have anything better to do? Most here would rather argue about whether or not we can run 87 octane gasoline in an LS3, or perhaps discuss what brand of motor oil is better.
The old cars did exactly one thing better than the new ones do, they sounded better. There's something about pipes without cats in them that just plain sound better. Also, those old bias-ply tires chirped just right between every gear without running a drag race. The new cars are better in nearly every way, but I miss the sounds. (Not the smells, though. Old cars and modern gasoline do not mix...)
The old cars did exactly one thing better than the new ones do, they sounded better. There's something about pipes without cats in them that just plain sound better. Also, those old bias-ply tires chirped just right between every gear without running a drag race. The new cars are better in nearly every way, but I miss the sounds. (Not the smells, though. Old cars and modern gasoline do not mix...)
Cats so have a way of muffling the tone - even when headers and a good cat-back are installed. Oh, well...
