Let's see how many C6's sell in 60 days (plant shutdown)
02-01-2009, 11:38 AM
#201
Team Owner
I don't know what GM actually has "invested" in the manufacture of a Corvette. But I'm sure it's lower than all the traditional terms like GMS, Employee Pricing, Invoice etc.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
02-01-2009, 11:42 AM
#202
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CI 7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Corvette probably needs 0% financing & GMS, or potentially both again simultaneously (like for a day back in August 2008) in order to clear out this glut of inventory, in advance of the historical spring sales upturn.
August 2008 sales spiked dramatically, that was when I bought my Z06. GMS and 0% in August '08. The calendar day that GM had both programs in place nationally was like the middle of the month. My GMS came from a dealership employee, and the national program was 0% for 48 on 8/12/08.
That would help to move some units.
Trouble is, all potential buyers may no longer qualify like they did back in August due to tighter lending, unless GMAC can still do it captive with FICO<720.
August 2008 sales spiked dramatically, that was when I bought my Z06. GMS and 0% in August '08. The calendar day that GM had both programs in place nationally was like the middle of the month. My GMS came from a dealership employee, and the national program was 0% for 48 on 8/12/08.
That would help to move some units.
Trouble is, all potential buyers may no longer qualify like they did back in August due to tighter lending, unless GMAC can still do it captive with FICO<720.
02-01-2009, 11:42 AM
#203
Le Mans Master
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I don't know what GM actually has "invested" in the manufacture of a Corvette. But I'm sure it's lower than all the traditional terms like GMS, Employee Pricing, Invoice etc.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
02-01-2009, 11:43 AM
#204
Team Owner
Corvette needs 0% financing & GMS, or potentially both again simultaneously (for a day) like back in August 2008 when sales spiked dramatically, in order to clear out this glut of inventory.
That was when I bought my Z06. GMS and 0%. That should help to move some units.
Trouble is, all potential buyers may no longer qualify like they did back in August due to tighter lending, unless GMAC can still do it captive with FICO<720.
That was when I bought my Z06. GMS and 0%. That should help to move some units.
Trouble is, all potential buyers may no longer qualify like they did back in August due to tighter lending, unless GMAC can still do it captive with FICO<720.
I purchased my 09 Z06 on July 28th using the employee for friends GMS promotion. I believe the spike in sales in Aug. was do to that promotion, the 0% promotion, and that some of the large forum dealers were selling at GMS prices(and below) even after the GM promotion ended. My belief is that today, a large sales boost would not be generated using those sales promotions as the general economic climate is much worse then it was 5-6 months ago and many, like myself, and you, have already taken the plunge and bought a 09.
The announcement from GM on the new "competition coupe" RPO indicates that they plan to start the plant back up before the '10 production starts up, but if the sales don't improve, it's no problem for them to suspend the option as they really don't have much cost involved in new parts only used in that option.
02-01-2009, 11:49 AM
#205
Team Owner
Thread Starter
My suspicion is that when a dealership closes, the inventory no longer shows up on the gmbuypower/jeffhardy sites. It would be great if someone could confirm this. As I said a couple of posts ago, I am curious to know how many of these cars are sitting unsold that don’t show up in the numbers being tracked in this thread. Maybe not enough of them to change the percentage much, but I am curious about it.
02-01-2009, 11:54 AM
#206
Team Owner
Thread Starter
There are some good posts above by folks I have an awful lot of respect for on this forum.
My opinion as an owner of an 09 is that I'd rather them not take drastic action to move them as it will hurt resale even further. On the other hand, I understand that both GM and the dealers need sales right now - so I would have a hard time blaming them for taking action.
But, as Jose said above, I'm not really sure that even dramatic discounts would have a big impact right now on Corvette sales. It's not like anyone really needs to by a new Corvette. And as Yell01 said, even deep discounts aren't much of a help if you have to trade a car to buy a new one. The difference is still about the same because they are both down in value.
My opinion as an owner of an 09 is that I'd rather them not take drastic action to move them as it will hurt resale even further. On the other hand, I understand that both GM and the dealers need sales right now - so I would have a hard time blaming them for taking action.
But, as Jose said above, I'm not really sure that even dramatic discounts would have a big impact right now on Corvette sales. It's not like anyone really needs to by a new Corvette. And as Yell01 said, even deep discounts aren't much of a help if you have to trade a car to buy a new one. The difference is still about the same because they are both down in value.
02-01-2009, 12:00 PM
#207
Safety Car
These cars are not selling because of the huge markups on them.
Sticker and invoice price gap is huge.. these greedy dealers arent budging. I was at a chevy dealer and they priced a new coupe 1lt as basic as it gets for over 50k. I said that wasnt gonna cut it and they said "we dont really discount them" I just walked out the door. If Chevy closed the markup gap for their greedy dealers there would be a lot more sales. Just my .02 dollars.
Sticker and invoice price gap is huge.. these greedy dealers arent budging. I was at a chevy dealer and they priced a new coupe 1lt as basic as it gets for over 50k. I said that wasnt gonna cut it and they said "we dont really discount them" I just walked out the door. If Chevy closed the markup gap for their greedy dealers there would be a lot more sales. Just my .02 dollars.
02-01-2009, 12:10 PM
#208
Le Mans Master
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These cars are not selling because of the huge markups on them.
Sticker and invoice price gap is huge.. these greedy dealers arent budging. I was at a chevy dealer and they priced a new coupe 1lt as basic as it gets for over 50k. I said that wasnt gonna cut it and they said "we dont really discount them" I just walked out the door. If Chevy closed the markup gap for their greedy dealers there would be a lot more sales. Just my .02 dollars.
Sticker and invoice price gap is huge.. these greedy dealers arent budging. I was at a chevy dealer and they priced a new coupe 1lt as basic as it gets for over 50k. I said that wasnt gonna cut it and they said "we dont really discount them" I just walked out the door. If Chevy closed the markup gap for their greedy dealers there would be a lot more sales. Just my .02 dollars.
I've was called by a CT dealer that was BEGGING me to buy at ridiculous price. this includes the once untouchable Z06! Since I'd have to sell or trade my 06 and get murdered there is no way I make it happen....
Bottom line if you can't find FANTASTIC deals on vettes you haven't looked very hard......... Do you expect dealers to take a loss
02-01-2009, 12:17 PM
#209
Team Owner
The market is SICK maybe it's time to PUKE and get over it. The market will adjust and return.
02-01-2009, 12:22 PM
#210
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02-01-2009, 12:22 PM
#211
Safety Car
I don't know what GM actually has "invested" in the manufacture of a Corvette. But I'm sure it's lower than all the traditional terms like GMS, Employee Pricing, Invoice etc.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
Dealers are trying to stay in business too, and their cost for the car is already fixed. While there is some additional carrying cost, it's not that much per car per month. Most dealers feel like they can't make zero profit on a car and stay in business (duh) and they certainly can't afford to sell the car at a net loss. So you won't see any big discounts beyond those normally seen on the Forum. If that means the cars sit, the cars sit. Dealers make it or they don't. If they don't, the cars go to auction and are bought by dealers with healthier finances. Healthy dealerships mostly got that way from not selling cars at a loss, so don't expect them to sell the cars cheap either. Oh, you'll see some minor short-term discount due to the dealer getting them cheap at auction, but they won't want to go too low for fear of gutting the value of their normal stock.
We've been through this before. The cars will sit until the economy gets better. Slowly, the inventory will be worked off. The real question is whether GM can hang in there while that happens.
Last edited by Gannet; 02-01-2009 at 12:26 PM.
02-01-2009, 12:30 PM
#212
Race Director
These cars are not selling because of the huge markups on them.
Sticker and invoice price gap is huge.. these greedy dealers arent budging. I was at a chevy dealer and they priced a new coupe 1lt as basic as it gets for over 50k. I said that wasnt gonna cut it and they said "we dont really discount them" I just walked out the door. If Chevy closed the markup gap for their greedy dealers there would be a lot more sales. Just my .02 dollars.
Sticker and invoice price gap is huge.. these greedy dealers arent budging. I was at a chevy dealer and they priced a new coupe 1lt as basic as it gets for over 50k. I said that wasnt gonna cut it and they said "we dont really discount them" I just walked out the door. If Chevy closed the markup gap for their greedy dealers there would be a lot more sales. Just my .02 dollars.
02-01-2009, 12:35 PM
#213
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Just one problem. GM doesn't own those cars, GM doesn't sell cars retail. GM has already been paid for all those cars. GM can't tell dealers what price they have to sell cars for.
Dealers are trying to stay in business too, and their cost for the car is already fixed. While there is some additional carrying cost, it's not that much per car per month. Most dealers feel like they can't make zero profit on a car and stay in business (duh) and they certainly can't afford to sell the car at a net loss. So you won't see any big discounts beyond those normally seen on the Forum. If that means the cars sit, the cars sit. Dealers make it or they don't. If they don't, the cars go to auction and are bought by dealers with healthier finances. Healthy dealerships mostly got that way from not selling cars at a loss, so don't expect them to sell the cars cheap either. Oh, you'll see some minor short-term discount due to the dealer getting them cheap at auction, but they won't want to go too low for fear of gutting the value of their normal stock.
We've been through this before. The cars will sit until the economy gets better. Slowly, the inventory will be worked off. The real question is whether GM can hang in there while that happens.
Dealers are trying to stay in business too, and their cost for the car is already fixed. While there is some additional carrying cost, it's not that much per car per month. Most dealers feel like they can't make zero profit on a car and stay in business (duh) and they certainly can't afford to sell the car at a net loss. So you won't see any big discounts beyond those normally seen on the Forum. If that means the cars sit, the cars sit. Dealers make it or they don't. If they don't, the cars go to auction and are bought by dealers with healthier finances. Healthy dealerships mostly got that way from not selling cars at a loss, so don't expect them to sell the cars cheap either. Oh, you'll see some minor short-term discount due to the dealer getting them cheap at auction, but they won't want to go too low for fear of gutting the value of their normal stock.
We've been through this before. The cars will sit until the economy gets better. Slowly, the inventory will be worked off. The real question is whether GM can hang in there while that happens.
Why not have GM give a bigger holdback to the dealer to help sales?
02-01-2009, 01:44 PM
#214
Safety Car
The answer is cut production back. They make too many of them. Simple yes but it's all about supply and demand. The present ecomony has less buyers.
I believe they should keep the plant closed until the 2010 production and cut that 1/2. That will bring up your new and used values.
I believe they should keep the plant closed until the 2010 production and cut that 1/2. That will bring up your new and used values.
02-01-2009, 01:51 PM
#215
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Just one problem. GM doesn't own those cars, GM doesn't sell cars retail. GM has already been paid for all those cars. GM can't tell dealers what price they have to sell cars for.
Dealers are trying to stay in business too, and their cost for the car is already fixed. While there is some additional carrying cost, it's not that much per car per month. Most dealers feel like they can't make zero profit on a car and stay in business (duh) and they certainly can't afford to sell the car at a net loss. So you won't see any big discounts beyond those normally seen on the Forum. If that means the cars sit, the cars sit. Dealers make it or they don't. If they don't, the cars go to auction and are bought by dealers with healthier finances. Healthy dealerships mostly got that way from not selling cars at a loss, so don't expect them to sell the cars cheap either. Oh, you'll see some minor short-term discount due to the dealer getting them cheap at auction, but they won't want to go too low for fear of gutting the value of their normal stock.
We've been through this before. The cars will sit until the economy gets better. Slowly, the inventory will be worked off. The real question is whether GM can hang in there while that happens.
Dealers are trying to stay in business too, and their cost for the car is already fixed. While there is some additional carrying cost, it's not that much per car per month. Most dealers feel like they can't make zero profit on a car and stay in business (duh) and they certainly can't afford to sell the car at a net loss. So you won't see any big discounts beyond those normally seen on the Forum. If that means the cars sit, the cars sit. Dealers make it or they don't. If they don't, the cars go to auction and are bought by dealers with healthier finances. Healthy dealerships mostly got that way from not selling cars at a loss, so don't expect them to sell the cars cheap either. Oh, you'll see some minor short-term discount due to the dealer getting them cheap at auction, but they won't want to go too low for fear of gutting the value of their normal stock.
We've been through this before. The cars will sit until the economy gets better. Slowly, the inventory will be worked off. The real question is whether GM can hang in there while that happens.
02-01-2009, 01:56 PM
#216
Le Mans Master
I don't know what GM actually has "invested" in the manufacture of a Corvette. But I'm sure it's lower than all the traditional terms like GMS, Employee Pricing, Invoice etc.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
I believe GM may need to consider selling the 6 or 7 thousand cars currently sitting on dealers lots for exactly what they cost to manufacture to clear them off the books. Sort of like the concept being floated in the financial industry with the bad assest held by banks. Just get rid of them.
Same thing will happen with the Vette (IMO) Once you give them away you can't go back.
Just my 02 cents.
02-01-2009, 01:59 PM
#217
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It is my understanding that dealer demand is what triggers production. I would be surprised if dealer demand is high right now.. or for the near future. My best guess is that production will not start back when planned.
02-01-2009, 02:08 PM
#218
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I hope you correct! It's simply STUPID to start producing cars that few are buying right now. A dealer would have to a moron to be ordering cars that they can't sell either. Simply keep things shut down until demand catches up with supply. If I were GM I'd consider keeping the plant down until the new model year. Why produce more unwanted inventory? The entire concept hurts everyone that owns a vette right now. Maybe GM will get smart and simply keep BG shut down another 6 months or so.........
02-01-2009, 02:20 PM
#220
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But, as Jose said above, I'm not really sure that even dramatic discounts would have a big impact right now on Corvette sales. It's not like anyone really needs to by a new Corvette. And as Yell01 said, even deep discounts aren't much of a help if you have to trade a car to buy a new one. The difference is still about the same because they are both down in value.