open or closed helmets
Racer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Newport News VA
This was the SCCA Participant Bulletin:
DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Participant Bulletin
It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a driver’s position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver’s chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc.
Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at (800) 770-2055."
DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Participant Bulletin
It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a driver’s position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver’s chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc.
Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at (800) 770-2055."
Last edited by FM; Jan 4, 2009 at 07:43 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Newport News VA
Here's a follow-up from the SCCA Forum:
While the SCCA did indeed post an advisory on this, that was eventually taken down off the site, there was never any official ruling on it.
Nothing was ever changed in the rulebook, and when it comes to that, the Safety rules are the only mandatory parts of the book for regional, scca sanctioned events. I wouldn't even suggest that this was erring on the side of caution since the study in question had little to nothing to do with what happens at a Solo event, in a a passenger car (The study was about Airbags in Formula cars). Given that, I would say that even though regions are free to modify some of the rules, this isn't one they should be mucking with.
While the SCCA did indeed post an advisory on this, that was eventually taken down off the site, there was never any official ruling on it.
Nothing was ever changed in the rulebook, and when it comes to that, the Safety rules are the only mandatory parts of the book for regional, scca sanctioned events. I wouldn't even suggest that this was erring on the side of caution since the study in question had little to nothing to do with what happens at a Solo event, in a a passenger car (The study was about Airbags in Formula cars). Given that, I would say that even though regions are free to modify some of the rules, this isn't one they should be mucking with.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 241
Likes: 25
From: Gettysburg PA
Sorry not going to agree here, and do some research Arai is probably the top helmet brand.
I will not even comment on HJC or even bother to show you one of mine, stay away from HJC that is all I have to say. Again no price tag on your head or life and most people seem to fail to understand that.
I will not even comment on HJC or even bother to show you one of mine, stay away from HJC that is all I have to say. Again no price tag on your head or life and most people seem to fail to understand that.
She's right! I wouldn't ever trust a HJC. My head is worth more than $200. I also agree that Arai and Shoei are the only two helmets worth wearing!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 0
From: Orlando FL
Get a full face helmet and a hans. It is cheap protection in the long run. Plus the gear is cheaper and better than ever. As my Dad said "if you have a $200 head, buy a $200 helmet"
Last edited by wdavis; Jan 4, 2009 at 08:56 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,007
Likes: 0
From: Happiness is Busch in Victory Lane!
St. Jude Donor '09 & '12, '14
I'm suprised your both driving vettes. Try Volvo its safer. Only the best you know?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 0
From: Miami FL.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
I always enjoy the "my head is worth more than $200" arguments every time there is a discussion of what kind of helmet to buy.
My question is, why are these people, who are saying their heads are worth more than $200, not wearing a helmet ALL the time? Heck, you have a much greater probability of getting into a serious accident on the street than you do during a track day or at the drag strip. If your head is really worth more than $200 (which, by the way, it's not if you look at the value of the raw materials) then don't risk it, wear a helmet every time you drive your car.
My question is, why are these people, who are saying their heads are worth more than $200, not wearing a helmet ALL the time? Heck, you have a much greater probability of getting into a serious accident on the street than you do during a track day or at the drag strip. If your head is really worth more than $200 (which, by the way, it's not if you look at the value of the raw materials) then don't risk it, wear a helmet every time you drive your car.
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,007
Likes: 0
From: Happiness is Busch in Victory Lane!
St. Jude Donor '09 & '12, '14
This article debunks the myth.
Modern Helmets DOT and Snell approved are well designed. Sizing is critical.
Spending $800 is not needed. Sorry. It's more for bragging rights in the Crotch rocket circles...
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html
Modern Helmets DOT and Snell approved are well designed. Sizing is critical.
Spending $800 is not needed. Sorry. It's more for bragging rights in the Crotch rocket circles...
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 0
From: Miami FL.
I see soome people have not owned a motorcycle and don't undestand the importance of your life and or head...
That is why some say "percieved value" of a good helmet like Arai or Shoei. Maybe your head is worth $150-200 mine sure isn't. Educate yourself before making posts
Ignorance sure does show and the last post was FAIL.
That is why some say "percieved value" of a good helmet like Arai or Shoei. Maybe your head is worth $150-200 mine sure isn't. Educate yourself before making posts
Ignorance sure does show and the last post was FAIL.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,007
Likes: 0
From: Happiness is Busch in Victory Lane!
St. Jude Donor '09 & '12, '14
If you own a crotch rocket and dont have a big SHOEI or ARAI on your head.. Your a loser I guess. It's little to do with actual safety.
Thanks for the support. As you mention someone wearing a DOT / SNELL helmet vs not wearing a helmet is all that matters.
In addition proper training courses for Motorcycles and Car go a long way to keeping you safe.
Thanks for the support. As you mention someone wearing a DOT / SNELL helmet vs not wearing a helmet is all that matters.
In addition proper training courses for Motorcycles and Car go a long way to keeping you safe.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,007
Likes: 0
From: Happiness is Busch in Victory Lane!
St. Jude Donor '09 & '12, '14
I see soome people have not owned a motorcycle and don't undestand the importance of your life and or head...
That is why some say "percieved value" of a good helmet like Arai or Shoei. Maybe your head is worth $150-200 mine sure isn't. Educate yourself before making posts
Ignorance sure does show and the last post was FAIL.
That is why some say "percieved value" of a good helmet like Arai or Shoei. Maybe your head is worth $150-200 mine sure isn't. Educate yourself before making posts
Ignorance sure does show and the last post was FAIL.
I'm saying if 2 helmets meet the same testing standard and one cost $200 and one cost $800. What are you truly getting for the extra $600?
1) Construction materials (weight, durability, finish, etc.)
2) Where it's made and assembled (more expensive to have stuff made in Europe or US versus China or South America)
3) Extras (for motorcycle helmets this includes vents, removable liners, etc.)
4) Number of shell sizes used...important if you have a smaller or larger than normal head
5) Brand Name (some people got to have that NAME)
It's like buying designer jeans with those Arai helmets. Levi's do just fine and cost 1/3 less.
Last edited by Daytona Bob; Jan 4, 2009 at 09:09 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 0
From: Miami FL.
Originally Posted by Daytona Bob
This article debunks the myth.
Modern Helmets DOT and Snell approved are well designed. Sizing is critical.
Spending $800 is not needed. Sorry. It's more for bragging rights in the Crotch rocket circles...
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html
Modern Helmets DOT and Snell approved are well designed. Sizing is critical.
Spending $800 is not needed. Sorry. It's more for bragging rights in the Crotch rocket circles...
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html
Yeah Moto GP riders go bragging they have the most expensive helmet EVER.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
I used an open-faced helmet at Spring Mountain and it was a bit more comfortable, but having treated people with some bad facial injuries, I went with the full helmet. I see you're in Des Plaines; unless you already have a source, I got mine at Nothstar Motorsports in Barrington. They have a decent selection and you can try them on to see what you like.
I'm here today because of a full face Shoei. Full face all the way....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 0
From: Miami FL.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 24,500
Likes: 312
From: Scottsdale AZ
So . . .before we start writing our names in the snow . . .
Is there a single "standard" DOT/SNELL or ?? that is the definitive indicator of the level of protection afforded by helmets - -irrespective of cost ?
I've got no dog in this hunt . . just trying protect my noggin and learn what's "best".
thanks
Thanks for the info - -
Is there a single "standard" DOT/SNELL or ?? that is the definitive indicator of the level of protection afforded by helmets - -irrespective of cost ?
I've got no dog in this hunt . . just trying protect my noggin and learn what's "best".
thanks
Thanks for the info - -
Last edited by CQRT; Jan 4, 2009 at 09:31 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,007
Likes: 0
From: Happiness is Busch in Victory Lane!
St. Jude Donor '09 & '12, '14
I'm saying $800 doesnt buy you more safety then $200.
I cited my source.
Prove to me it does buy you safety.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: SAN DIEGO CA
Get a SA (Special Application) rated helmet, not an M rated helmet. Cost is a little higher, but they are designed for multiple impact points (cage, windows, dash, steering wheel, etc.) and have fire retardant material inside. M rated (Motorcycle) are designed to take an impact at one point and do not have the fire retardant material (which can still be used in cars and most tracks do accept them). Either must carry the SNELL certification.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,007
Likes: 0
From: Happiness is Busch in Victory Lane!
St. Jude Donor '09 & '12, '14
So . . .before we start writing our names in the snow . . .
Is there a single "standard" DOT/SNELL or ?? that is the definitive indicator of the level of protection afforded by helmets - -irrespective of cost ?
I've got no dog in this hunt . . just trying protect my noggin and learn what's "best".
thanks
Is there a single "standard" DOT/SNELL or ?? that is the definitive indicator of the level of protection afforded by helmets - -irrespective of cost ?
I've got no dog in this hunt . . just trying protect my noggin and learn what's "best".
thanks
In regards to safety a DOT helmet that is snell approved is the way to go.
You can get these helmets for under $200. They are just as safe as paying top dollar.
There is nothing wrong with Arai but you pay for the designer name and associated asthetic features.
Like I said discuss it with the pro's at the helmet shop.