http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090226/bs_nm/us_gm_7

 

Not looking good.

 

Either way it will work out .They are not going to fail.

 

How much longer can GM keep taking 10 billion dollar hits? It's looking more and more the only chance of surviving is chapter 11. I can't see even this administration forking over another 30 or 40 billion to keep them operating! I believe GM will be in receivership within 6 months or sooner. What happens to our beloved vettes who knows? Will someone like Toyota buy the brand? Not sure if I really want that to happen! Sadly we may very well own the last generation of Corvette....

 

 

It's going to tough goings with so many douchebags in this country buying foreign vehicles.

If anybody is wondering what is happening to the once great american companies. The answer lies in the once great americans driving around in the Korean, Japanese, German... imports.

A book written in the 80's pretty much explains what has occured. When I was in college, one of my Economics Professors had us read the book "Manufacturing Matters."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...v24/ai_7544161

It's a real good read if anyone is interested in why the US manufacturering sector and economy in total has completely changed.
Makes a point that a prosperous nation cannot remain prosperous while shifting from a manufacturing based economy to a service primarily based on servicing imported goods.

Which is exactly what we have moved to - a service based economy of which even many of those services are now being moved offshore.

Combine a lower wage service based economy with; a mortgage forclosure bubble, banking and credit markets in chaos, unemployment skyrocketing, new car sales tanking, massive blip up last year in fuel costs.....

Gee I wonder why an American car company is struggling. Yup, it's all GM's fault.

Keep buying those Hyundais, Hondas, Toyotas, Bimmmers you unamerican yuppie fks. And then wonder why your economy and once great american manufacturing companies are being flushed down the toilet.

 

This makes my point better than any economics. Someone clearly tied to the auto industry blaming the consumer for their failures. I should buy a substandard, overpriced car just because of where it is made? Newsflash junior, market economics is proving a great point here. For decades the Big3 have watched the world markets changed and done nothing. When the Japanese increased efficiency, quality, and more consistent styling updates they did nothing. When the german car companies came in and showed the Big3 what luxury was, what did the Big3 do? Made the same old bad cars. When the foreign car companies showed up to the SUV/pickup truck game, what happened?

We can go on and on all day here. The reality is the Big3 are broken, and in my opinion, not worth saving. You talk about why this country moved to a service based country, that answer is very simple. Comparative labor costs. The big3 employees have proven over the last 30 years that they can be trumped in every aspect by every other labor force out there for a fraction of the price and a fraction of the headache. So the manufacturing left. It's not just this sector, it is every manufacturing sector. Employers no longer want to deal with lazy americans and their sense of middle class entitlement despite the fact that they are unwilling to work for it, unwilling to learn a new skill, unwilling to accept less under any circumstance.

I will flat out tell you that I have owned several american cars, and right now I am shopping for two more, and the only one on the list I would consider is a corvette, and it is not my top pick right now. Why? Quite simple actually. I can't think of an American car thats styling, reliability/performance, and cost are comparable to what I am looking for. Furthermore, if it came to a push right now between a Honda and a GM car, I would go with the Honda for two big reasons. First, I know Honda will be here in a year. Second, I would rather support a company that doesn't support a greedy and manipulative union.

The best example of all of this is the rise of Hyundai. In ten years they went from a joke of a car company to a world class competitor with the Genesis. In the same time GM has finally decided to make some changes (CTS/Malibu) but it is too little, too late, and the american consumer now has a very bad taste in its mouth from years of poor Big3 products.

So, Michrider, call me unpatriotic if you want (nothing is further from the truth) but the honest truth is that I will buy the best product for the best price no matter who makes it. That is why it is called a FREE market and I am not forced to buy domestic products at an inflated price, I don't even know if they have a word for that other than protectionism.

 

Very interesting response, but, a bit skewed. First, I've been to Korea several times for business and regarding Hyundai, and I've been to their factories. They started out in the ship building business. Later on expanding from everything from semiconductors to cars. The truth of the matter is that like their Japanese and European competitors they ARE subsidized & totally supported by their government. The Korean government helps them buy machinery & technology...period. Plus, Koreans are very nationalistic...unlike Americans. They buy their products first. Our industry only gets help when they're on their *** and more often they get costly regulations.

As far as your quality argument is concerned, that also is skewed. Ten years ago, you could justify it. Now, it's a myth ,that you my friend, have bought into. Now I can understand looking for the best value and deal for your money. Honda's IMHO make wonderful vehicles. I know, since over the years I've owned a couple. But, is an Accord really better than a Malibu or a Fusion and would you buy one for price or style? If you get a better deal, sure, I can understand that. But don't give me a bunch of toro doo doo about quality. It's just your way of explaining why you don't give a crap about this country.

 

Umm - I think they already have failed. Maybe more correctly is that "they will still be around". This is a golden opportunity to improve and change after hitting "rock bottom" - time will tell if they seize that opportunity. ATTITUDES and perspectives need to change.

 

I don't think you can blame the consumer for buying a better built product, especially when that product was also cheaper in the early years. When you lay out half your annual salary for a vehicle you have the expectation the investment will last and that hasn't always been the case. There was a time not that long ago when the quality between *** and US cars wasn't even remotely comparable.

Ford balanced it's budget for years on the profits on sport utes and pickups and the quality and engineering investment in it's car line suffered. GM tried to pass off crap vehicles like the Malibu to compete with the cream of Japanese offerings. By the time these manufacturers finally got their act together and started producing vehicles that people wanted with a build quality befitting the price their reputations were shot.

They adapted so slowly that they surrendered half their market and that will never come back because the off shore competition has established a huge faithful repeat customer base. There was a time when there were faithful customers of one GM line that wouldn't buy from another GM line any more than they would buy a Dodge, but to save money when times got tough they made most of their cars rebadged clones of one another. Guys who bought Buicks and Pontiacs their whole lives did not want one with a Chev engine. They eroded their individual brand values and set people up to jump marques ten years later when the overseas competitors became more estabished.

I like the cars that Ford and GM are offering now (sorry Chrysler) but they are 15 years late. They are carrying the burden of so many past mistakes that isn't something they can undo any time soon. And now the foreign cars all have plants in the US they are definitely here to stay.

I don't believe it is possible for GM to simply fold up the tent. There will likely be some kind of reorganization, but the engineering, the employees, and the plants are all viable. It is the past debtload and financial commitment that is dragging them down not the ability to build and sell a good car or truck today. They have the customers and eventually they will get leaned down enough that they can stand on their own.

 

GM's reliability is not bad actually.Sorry for the crappy copy!!Heaven forbid..Toyota is on the less reliable side of the line!!

 

Some valid points, I agree that the big 3 have overpaid for labor services and it got compounded by legacy costs i.e., expensive pensions and soaring health care costs. The truth is at least Ford and GM were on track to survival before the rapid rise to $4/gallon gas and the sub prime mess created by our politicians. You paint a broad brush overlooking the improvements which have occured over the last 10 years. The big 3 have perception problems to overcome like you have demonstrated in your post.

From autoweek: Auto analyst: Detroit Three still have perception problems
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...02259993:flag:

 

GM viability? Let it go Bankrupt. Reorganize. Life will go on with or without GM. I just bought my third Vette. I'll be 62 on Sunday. Three Vettes should last me. If GM survives, somehow, I'll buy my fourth Vette, a 2010 Grand Sport.

 

I for one would not buy a car from a company in bankruptcy. If they fail it is THEIR own fault, not the consumer. This is a capitalist society, GM should not have even had a bailout in the first place. I hope the Corvette survives if GM does go out of business. We can't just let an American Icon die.

 

Stick a fork in 'em---they're done!! They have been trying to go bankrupt for years with shoddy products that were overpriced and couldn't even get that right. Thank crappy management and the unions for their plight--don't blame the customers. Finally, they may get something right!!

 

I realize that Hyundai is a conglomerate which far reaching businesses which can assist in their auto business. They may be subsidized, but they are subsidized at a much much lower level. They may be nationalistic, but that doesn't mean an enormous amount when you consider the american car market. They went from a tiny share 10 years ago to a very respectable and growing share today, which is the exact opposite of the Big3.

Skewed? 10 years ago justified? 10 years ago it was an obvious fact, period. 20 years ago you got smacked in the face with the quality difference. I would argue that an Accord is the superior vehicle than even the new Malibu or the Fusion. One good reason is resale value, american cars are notoriously poor on resale value for good reason, no one has faith in an older american car, not true with the japanese cars. You seem to keep believing that simply because american quality has improved over the last few years that I should suddenly switch gears. Why should I trust a company who has completely dropped the ball? When was the last time you heard about Honda or Toyota failing like this? When was the last time GM wasn't playing catch up to either of them?

The examples are simply countless, and reflected in sales which is the ultimate gauge. The Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic are all annihilating their Big3 competitors over the last 10 years. The other issue you have is that people don't cross shop any more to American car companies, they just don't do it. This is what you need to realize. We are all car guys here and know the changes, but the average consumer doesn't and at this point won't give up the fact that the Big3 make unrealiable backwards cars, and the others don't, period. Add in the fact that the UAW contracts are adding between 3500-4000 per car now and it is simply funny. When I bought my TL the new CTS wasn't out yet. If it was I still would not have bought it because of how much more it would have cost to buy a CTS similarly equipped.

No other american car was similar in styling, quality, and pricepoint.

Call it anti-american all you want, but like I said, I will not blindly buy a product because of where it is made. To assert otherwise we might as well just join the socialism crowd with limited markets and protectionist tariffs.

 

Overpaid? They were blackmailed. On track for survival? How do you figure? Their market share was declining and their products were not keeping pace with reality. The best period they had was the late 90's and early 00's when SUV and truck sales supported them because of insanely cheap gas, well that gave out and they had no other plans in the works.

Combine this with the fact that despite all the statistical data on reliability etc it does not take into effect the massive impact of percieved and subjective differences in styling etc.

 

nail
head

 

That is customer service. Not quite the same as quality of product

 

There isnt a business in America that could have survived the onslaught from its Government and being held hostage by a out of touch with reality labor union. The big 3 have endured excessive regulation in terms of products, plants and people that Im sure most consumers have no clue about. Yes the imports/transplants have the same product regulations but it has always been skewed against trucks and suv's which because people wanted them have been the bulk of the big 3s profits. The US has the 2nd highest tax rate on corporations in the world. Until the global economic meltdown GM and Ford were profitable outside of the US. To say the big 3 caused their destruction is very short sighted. Yes the products fell behind asia and europe but much improvement has occured over the last 10 years. To say let them fail is buying into the whole liberal mantra of corporations are evil and greedy and deserve what they get. If you enjoy freedom and your standard of living we need to protect capitalism and do something about the ever expanding socialist government in America. Giving the big 3 a chance to survive is a good start. Oh by the way the big 3 have contributed over 60Trillion dollars to the US economy over the years!