OK, I'm seriously considering buying an '09 Z51 before the end of March to take advantage of "pre price increase" prices and pre increased California sales tax. I'm concerned though that the 2010 models announced in April will have significant improvements. I've seen the wide body discussions but believe the cost will outweigh the benefits - for me. I haven't seen a discussion on GM switching to direct injection like Porsche to gain roughly 10% in power and get better milage.

Does anyone have any thoughts on GM making the switch to direct injection which would probably yield something line 470 HP in the LS3 (with duel mode exhaust)?

For that increase - with higher fuel economy, I would probably wait for a 2010.

 

I agree.

Direct Injection is a given.

In addition GM Has to give the base vette more HP.

There are simply too many cars eating away at its performance #s.

 

Sounds feasible.

Watching how GM royally screwed Corvette buyers who purchased new '07 C6s in February and March of 2007, I wouldn't buy a brand new 2009 Vette right now unless my life depended on it.

I'd wait until after the announcement of what the 2010s was going to have and let GM suffer over this next month without my money, or anyone else's I could convince, for fear of being screwed the same way they did those last 2007 MY buyers.

 

We'll know soon at the Bash, but it's not until April.
Go ahead and get an 09. Then if it's much better, get a 2010 also.
(GM needs the help).

 

incase you haven't noticed the LS3 isn't exactly slapping the LS2 around

 

As an 07 buyer I do not feel screwed. I do agree with your point to wait until 2010s are announced. If Corvette is not significantly upgraded there will be serious competitive issues.

 

With the current economic condition of GM, who knows what they will be able to do for 2010.

 

Hey Q

The only thing I will say about that is that for those who did their research (like me ) , there were strong rumors of an LS3 for the 2008MY by the summer of 2006. That's the main reason I waited until July of 2007 to order my '08.

Even as the release of the '08 came much closer and the rumors became firmed up - speculative buyers were advised to "not wait" , "buy it now", "why not wait for the flux capacitor" , etc.

That was bad advice.

Now WRT direct injection - I think tht there are now 2 strikes against that:

1. That's a fairly significant change and I suspect a change to D.I, - would need to be "baked in" to a new model - C7. A 50 HP increase might require changes to the entire drive train in order to keep warranty claims down.

2. Putting a change like that into production (even if it were done on C6), would require some R&D money. Something GM doesn't have. Any R&D investment would lkely go into a higher volume model.

 

I bought in Fed. 2007 and if I got screwed I hope somebody tells me. I got a fantastic car at a significantly lower cost than an '08 would have cost and I got to drive it while the 08 buyers were waiting. Very few people are going to be able to use 400HP on the street with the stock tires. I bought a car to drive and enjoy every day and I'm glad I didn't pay extra for bragging rights.

But if you want to talk about people getting screwed, how about all those 08 and 09 coupe and vert buyers who could have gotten an older Z06 for less money?

To the OP, if you wait it will be well into summer before you get to drive a '10 and it will cost significantly more whether or not there are any improvements. My crystal ball says that even if DI was available, GM wouldn't put it in '10s because of the economy and for political reasons. '11 or '12 makes a lot more sense also for marketing. If they do it in '10, what will they do in '12 to keep the brand fresh?

Also, DI will improve economy and that will be a lot more valuable in a few years when the CAFE standards start to bind. There is no way the Corvette will get to the new standard and still be the Corvette we know. Wait a couple of years, add DI and say fuel economy is much better but CAFE still can't be achieved because people want Corvettes and not Volts, and GM might get a reprieve.

 

WOW... that sounds.. well.. just stupid. No offense, but it does. Saying a company "Screwed U" because they innovated or improved a product in the next model year sounds more like sour grapes than any realistic point of view. GM or any maker would be foolish not to constantly improve a product from year to year. In the old days cars were changed EVERY SINGLE YEAR in most situations. Normally visually and performance wise... Look at the Chevy Impala from 1962-1968.

The LS3 is a GODSEND.. but the LS2 was a marvel in it's own right.

Word is that Direct-injection will make it's way to the LS engines in 2010-2011. GM has already unveiled the change and tested current LS engines with DI to a magnificent effect. The problem is that the economy is putting a many a thing on hold for at least a year... so 2011 seems more like the intended debut of the Gen V DI LS engines

 

I'm gonna post this whole article because U have to have a SUBSCRIPTION to read...

GM Reveals Small-Block V-8 with Direct Injection - wardsauto.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GM Reveals Small-Block V-8 with Direct Injection - wardsauto.com
By Mike Sutton
Aug. 29, 2007
MILFORD, MI – Although General Motors Corp. is dividing its resources to cover all fronts of advanced powertrain development, the future of the auto maker’s foundation OHV small-block V-8 architecture appears secure with the advent of direct-injection gasoline (DIG) technology.

Among the various exhibits of engineering bravado on display at the auto maker’s proving grounds here, including two-mode hybrid-electric drivetrains, ultra-clean turbodiesels and homogeneous charge compression ignition flex-fuel engines, a seemingly untouched Cadillac Escalade stands out.

Emblazoned with giant E85 banners down its flanks, there is little to indicate the industry’s first OHV V-8 with DIG fueling lurks beneath the SUV’s pearl white hood.

The experimental engine is based on GM’s current all-aluminum Gen IV 6.2L V-8 (L92) found in the Escalade, GMC Yukon Denali and Hummer H2. Depending on the application, the powerplant, which sports port fuel injection, variable valve timing (VVT) and dual-cam phasing, is rated between 380-403 hp in stock form.

However, with a little tweaking to accommodate the auto industry’s latest fuel-injection hardware, the prototype V-8 is producing “well north of 450 hp (on gasoline),” says Dave Sczomak, development engineer-GM Powertrain Advanced Engineering.
Running the engine on E85 ethanol allows for even more power to be coaxed from the big V-8, he adds, noting the 85%/15% ethanol/gasoline mix generally carries a race fuel-like 106 octane rating.

Cruising the web of test roads onsite, the Escalade motors along smoothly with a characteristic large-displacement V-8 burble. However, mashing the gas from a standstill produces a wave of power that propels the big truck at a noticeably more rapid pace than the production version.

Along with the substantial increase in horsepower, DIG also contributes to about a 10% increase in low-end torque, Sczomak says. In addition, fuel economy is moderately improved (3-6%), as are cold-start emissions of hydrocarbons.

To accommodate the DIG fueling system, GM redesigned the L92 cylinder heads, rearranging the intake ports to make room for the eight high-pressure injectors that squirt fuel directly into the side of the combustion chamber at 2,250 psi (155 bar).
New dished pistons – similar to a diesel’s – were installed for added clearance of the injectors. They also contribute to a greater compression ratio (11.5:1 vs. 10.5:1), which can be employed because of the high-octane composition of E85 and the knock-reducing cooling effect of introducing fuel directly into the cylinder.

A modified engine controller manages the engine’s operation, while VVT and Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation contribute to efficiency and refinement.

The development sounds like a no-brainer for improving nearly every aspect of the near-60-year-old small block’s performance.
However, Tom Stephens, group vice president-GM Powertrain and Quality, notes introducing a production DIG small block would “require the next-generation architecture” of the engine, or Gen V.

This primarily is due to the huge volumes of V-8 engines GM produces, Sczomak says, noting a radical change in cylinder-head design, for example, becomes a monumental undertaking when taking into account GM’s annual build of more than 1 million small block V-8s.

Fortunately, timing is on the auto maker’s side. The recent introduction of the ’08 Corvette’s 430-hp LS3 V-8, along with the release later this year of the ’08 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid’s 6.0L V-8, represent the last editions of the Gen IV engine family, Stephens says.

All subsequent introductions will be of the Gen V architecture and could have DIG fueling integrated from the ground up, especially considering the refinement of the current test engine’s operation. The greater specific output provided by DIG also would allow for greater engine downsizing, thereby improving fuel economy even further.

“GM would want to introduce this (DIG) on a high-profile vehicle, such as the new (Chevrolet) Camaro or (rear-wheel-drive) Impala,” Global Insight analyst John Wolkonowicz says, referring to the auto maker’s plans for new volume models based on its global RWD platform developed by GM Holden Ltd. in Australia.

The new Camaro, which originally was shown at the 2005 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, is expected to appear later next year as an ’09 model, with the all-new RWD Impala taking form sometime early in the next decade. Revisions for future generations of the Corvette and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra pickups are expected in the same timeframe, Wolkonowicz says.

By capitalizing on areas of significant improvement that remain untapped in its core engine lineup, while simultaneously amping up the arrival of its new hybrid-electric vehicles, clean diesels and hydrogen fuel cells, GM clearly is betting on an ever-fracturing market for advanced powertrains.

As a result, the iconic grumble of the small-block V-8 appears poised to remain a fixture of the automotive landscape for the foreseeable future.
WARDS: GM REVEALS SMALL BLOCK with DIRECT INJECTION

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but stock for stock, mild mods for mild mods, the LS3 is bitch slapping the LS2.

Now when you get into the heavier mods, and larger range of bolt ons, well all bets are off. Same as all bets are off any time you start adding more and more modifications.



You were smart for doing it. In fact, thats an understatement.

But it is still a mystery to me how you guys were able to figure out what was rumor and what was fact or what was at least "feasible" during this research.

At any rate, you guys who waited on the '08 look like geniuses no matter how you slice it.

Some are going to say they enjoyed their '07s in the months before the release of the '08.

But the thing is, how many months of enjoyment offset the "gyp" of coming out without the LS3, without the TR6060, the new console, without the Z06 intake, the performance diff for the automatic, the improved steering, and ......all at a price dead even or even LESS than what the '07 cost?

These folks, especially if they bought anywhere near April 2007, got shafted no matter how you slice it.

I asked this in another thread:

Anyone care to poll people on this forum who purchased brand new 2007 C6 Corvettes prior to the Birthday bash of April 2007 and ask:

"Had you known what the 2008 Corvette was going to bring over the 2007, would you have still purchased your 2007 at the same point in time which you did?"

See how many answer that YES and how many answer it NO.

 

They didn't make a Vette for the 1983 MY did they?

They could have let people know that something big was coming for 2008 back in April 2006. Instead they went ahead and started pumping out 2007s, which was essentially the same car as the 2006.

A lot of folks snapped them up, and then chevy lowered the boom on them at the April 2007 Birthday Bash.

Go back and look at the posts in here from pissed '07 owners who had recently, and in some cases, very recently purchased, as in literally DAYS before their '07s when the news of the 2008 came out.

Also take a look at how they became even more incensed when the price of the 2008 came out and was less than $800.00 more than what they had just paid for those new '07s.

And then, just weeks later, the dealers were discounting the '08s to below '07 prices.

A lot of the folks who had literally less than 100 days in their new '07s were livid. And who could blame them? Their cars were worth less due to the depreciation hit anyway, but this made matters that much worse among prospective used Vette buyers who were aware of the 2008 news.

They got screwed. No two ways about it. Now some don't want to admit that they got screwed, but thats usually the way it is when a person gets taken.

 

There is no arguing that later model years are improved over prior model years.

Just like your Z06's oil pump was improved in later years.

I would disagree with how 06QSZ06 states the differences.

The Fact is the from 06-09 the cars are basically the same with minor enhancements.

30hp is not major
a steering rack ? I drove one - it wasnt anything to write about
interior carbon fiber - wtf ?

But I do agree with the premise that all of us would buy the newest we could afford at the time of purchase.

To say 07 owners got screwed is a falacy... the car is awesome.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

If I were to buy a 2009 right now, and find out a few weeks from now, and see pictures coming from out of Bowling Green from the birthday bash, that the 2010s were going to have the same degree of improvement over the 2009 that the 2008 had over the 2007, I'd be ready to kill somebody. Especially in this economic time.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Knowing GM, no way in hell would I buy a 2009 Vette right now.

I watched how GM has already screwed 2007 owners who bought late in the '07 MY run. No way I'd let what happened to those folks happen to me.

 

I'm not saying that the '07 is not an awesome car, all C6s are.

What I am saying is that FOR THE SAME MONEY and in some cases even less, people were getting the very improved 2008.

If you go down the list of improvements of the 2008 which joe ordered following the April 2007 birthday bash, vs the 2007 C6 which john bought the weekend before that same birthday bash....or even on New Years day of 2007. Joe is coming out way ahead.

Especially if he is spending less than $900.00 more than John. He is getting way more than $900.00 of improvement. For less than a 6 month wait.

John got %$#@ed. Then John gets really bitch slapped a few days later when that '08 gets discounted to less than what he paid for his '07.

So the people who bought 2007s just days earlier, missed out on being able to get all of the improvements that the 2008 offered over what they had just bought for the same money.

Those folks got screwed. No matter how you slice it.


Bob the big thing about the Z06 is there hasn't been a power increase in it. Its still basically the same car from '06 until now with a few subtle changes.

The base C6 OTOH got an entirely different......and more powerful, powerplant. As much as a 9% increase in power over the '07.

So to try and compare the dry sump difference between the year model Z06s is moot. If the Z06 were to get a 9% increase in power from 2007 to 2008, then the 2008 Z06 would be making right at 550hp.

And I can tell you without question, a person who bought a 505hp 2007 Z06 in March of 2007, would have been pissed off, and not just a little bit, had GM announced at the 2007 April birthday bash that they were coming out with a 2008 Z06 making 550 HP.

 

Unless your desire is to have the latest and greatest in technology then any C6 is a good car. A 2010 or 2011 Vette will be 2-3 years older than my 2008. I hope there are some performance improvements otherwise the Vette will suffer as a whole later. However 40hp or so isn't enough to get me to lose five digit $$ of depreciation. Besides I ordered my 08 C6 exactly the way I wanted it planning on keeping it for a very long time. No worries about resale or depreciation then.

As far as being upset that I didn't order an older Z06 instead, to me the Z06 is not worth the price. I wanted a Corvette with an automatic (due to a bad hip) and a removable roof. No Z06 can meet that specs. Then you get to live with a suspension all the time that was designed for a race track. A race track that most Z06 owners never will see. The Z06 is a very nice Vette, however if I wanted Z06 performance and the things I want, I would just go with a Callaway. The ZR1 is not that much of a jump more also. Which brings up the question? Are Z06 owners now pissed that a new top dog is on the block? Come on, you can have a used ZR1 next year for the price of a new Z06 and have a car that is more comfortable besides more performance.

 

Hmm Here's some Gasoline for you.

I think I got screwed on my 07 over the 06 and 05.

* No hood light
* No center console lock
* No hatch pull down

Also you can use this.

06 F55 owners got royally screwed when 07 F55s got drilled rotors.

C'mon Quicksilver... We know each year GM upgrades the model.

Just because the 08 upgrade had 30hp does not mean the end of the world for 07 and below owners.

 

Well I appreciate your opinion. You think I'm defending the 07 since I own one... but I knew the 08 improvements and still bought one! I even comparison shopped an 08 vs 07.

Each person can have that opinion as they spent the $$

a Logical car nut would agree 30hp is cool in the 08 but not a "Screwing" to the years past.

I'm surprised our opinions differ on this issue and I guess I wont convince you.

 

I don't have a crystal ball to borrow, sorry, but your Avatar is missing this line: "Work, work, work, work, work, work, hello boys! Have a nice rest? I missed you!"