The Future of GM- a commentary
04-26-2009, 02:21 PM
#41
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Unless gasoline gets to $4+ a gallon, everybody is going to drive the larger vehicle. It's comfortable and well, we like 'em.
The smallest vehicle I want is a Vette.
But the truth is, I might try the Chevy Volt for around town driving. It'll be more efficient than gasoline, especially if I can just plug it in at home and the electric rates do not go up.
But it'll have a helluva sound system so it will sound like a V8 under the hood.
Metaphorically speaking, didn't they pull the plug on the volt as part of the bailout? Claimed it was too costly and at around $40K no one would buy one vs. a Prias ($21K), Civic ($19K), or other cheap hybrids.
04-26-2009, 02:25 PM
#42
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13, '16-'17-'18
Word on the street is that The Obama canned Wagonner because he wouldn't go along with tossing GMC under the bus.
That's what happens when the Government nationalizes a company. Sound business decision is no longer the priorty - sucking up to one's contributors is
That's what happens when the Government nationalizes a company. Sound business decision is no longer the priorty - sucking up to one's contributors is
04-26-2009, 02:25 PM
#43
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13, '16-'17-'18
Word on the street is that The Obama canned Wagonner because he wouldn't go along with tossing GMC under the bus.
That's what happens when the Government nationalizes a company. Sound business decision is no longer the priority - sucking up to one's contributors is
That's what happens when the Government nationalizes a company. Sound business decision is no longer the priority - sucking up to one's contributors is
04-26-2009, 02:31 PM
#45
BTW...I have no idea what "word on the street" is or if it has any validity in this case but I would think GMC duplicates what Chevy does in the truck biz and I don't think they need two brands who do that. That said, I believe GM could combine the best of GMC and Chevy truck works to make one great truck offering, don't you?
Isn't that what Ford does?
Last edited by VettedCandidate; 04-26-2009 at 02:39 PM.
04-26-2009, 02:38 PM
#46
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Now imagine you own a business that sells 40 different types of widgets and your business is failing. Do you stop selling 11 of the top 20 that are selling or scrap the bottom 20 that aren't? Odrama is TELLING them to scrap 11 of the top 20. I hate to say it but, I think he's personally killing GM off for good or making into something none of us would buy.....
04-26-2009, 02:49 PM
#47
You are correct. They want them to close 11 of the top 20 money centers for GM.
Now imagine you own a business that sells 40 different types of widgets and your business is failing. Do you stop selling 11 of the top 20 that are selling or scrap the bottom 20 that aren't? Odrama is TELLING them to scrap 11 of the top 20. I hate to say it but, I think he's personally killing GM off for good or making into something none of us would buy.....
Now imagine you own a business that sells 40 different types of widgets and your business is failing. Do you stop selling 11 of the top 20 that are selling or scrap the bottom 20 that aren't? Odrama is TELLING them to scrap 11 of the top 20. I hate to say it but, I think he's personally killing GM off for good or making into something none of us would buy.....
Maybe what you should imagine is a business that cuts a lot of the chaff and combines what works and sells well into fewer brands built in more efficient ways? Take the best of Chevy & GMC trucks and combine them into one brand. Take the best of Pontiac & Saturn & Chevy and do the same. Imagine the savings. This combines work forces/facilities/supply chains/warehousing/distribution/whatever. Will it be painful? You bet. Might it save GM? It very well could.
04-26-2009, 02:56 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Considering where GM has been financially for years, you may not want to associate Wagonner with sound business decisions. There have been some very good car decisions but, evidently, not so many good business decisions.
BTW...I have no idea what "word on the street" is or if it has any validity in this case but I would think GMC duplicates what Chevy does in the truck biz and I don't think they need two brands who do that. That said, I believe GM could combine the best of GMC and Chevy truck works to make one great truck offering, don't you?
Isn't that what Ford does?
BTW...I have no idea what "word on the street" is or if it has any validity in this case but I would think GMC duplicates what Chevy does in the truck biz and I don't think they need two brands who do that. That said, I believe GM could combine the best of GMC and Chevy truck works to make one great truck offering, don't you?
Isn't that what Ford does?
04-26-2009, 02:59 PM
#49
Safety Car
I am fine with the UAW having to make major concessions and I have felt that way for a long time. But they aren't the only ones. I think they are being forced into a "concession or job" decision, as will lots of other GM-related businesses have to do in a bankruptcy.
My point was we can do nothing and watch it and a lot more businesses fail/people become unemployed/tax burdens increase as a result or we can try to fix it somehow before total failure. What exactly would you do otherwise?
My point was we can do nothing and watch it and a lot more businesses fail/people become unemployed/tax burdens increase as a result or we can try to fix it somehow before total failure. What exactly would you do otherwise?
04-26-2009, 03:00 PM
#50
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The guy who wrote this article is right on. Anybody that thinks GM is going to become a great company again by selling Chevy's and Cadilllac's is sadly mistaken. Cadillac still has the stigma of an old persons car and how much profit do you think GM makes on an average Chevy. The Government will also see to it that GM builds the "green" cars the government wants them to build and not cars that people actually want. Corvettes, SUV's and pickups and other higher margin type vehicles are not what the government (socialists/communists) have in mind. And they will make it more and more difficult for people to buy these types of vehicles through gas tax, environmental tax or whatever other excuse they want to dream up.
How many people in upper management of the company's that you work for drive an American car. Answer will be not many. That in itself tells the story of the US car companies. I own three american made cars (Corvette, Hummer, Viper) and all three are an endangered species. The Corvette may survive but not in the high performance version it is today. When these kind of vehicles are no longer available I will have no choice but to buy European or Japanese. And these niche market type vehicles have a much bigger profit margin than an average Chevy. In my opinion its pretty much over for GM and Chrysler.
How many people in upper management of the company's that you work for drive an American car. Answer will be not many. That in itself tells the story of the US car companies. I own three american made cars (Corvette, Hummer, Viper) and all three are an endangered species. The Corvette may survive but not in the high performance version it is today. When these kind of vehicles are no longer available I will have no choice but to buy European or Japanese. And these niche market type vehicles have a much bigger profit margin than an average Chevy. In my opinion its pretty much over for GM and Chrysler.
Fast forward 30+ years and I have Toyota 4Runner and Infiniti G35 as part of my car stable. So what happened was they started building world class products with good dealerships! So why can't GM do likewise? They've proven they can build some great cars like corvette and the Malibu. Why not design and build a lot more great models? They have the engineering and manufacturing know how.
The question is does GM management have the smarts and guts to get it done? They have all the other ingredients already in place. Will the UAW truly play ball with management? I do know if the Japanese can do so can the Americans. We have every bit of the engineering prowess they do! We have just as good as workers when properly motivated and led by good management. Don't sell America short simply because we've had a bad run.
I still believe in the American worker and in America period..... I believe GM can and will return to one of premier auto manufactures with the right management! GO GM!!
Last edited by cthusker; 04-26-2009 at 04:17 PM. Reason: correction
04-26-2009, 03:05 PM
#51
Alright. Listen carefully. Flint is dead right about the unions. They will NEVER make any meaningful concessions while the Democrats are in power and running GM. In addtion, WE can't fix GM, neither can Obama. He's never run anything, let alone a car company. You must be a Democrat since you think GM can be fixed by throwing money at it. GM's costs are out of control due to fat union contracts and massive benefit packages. If that is not FIXED then GM will eventually cease to exist.
04-26-2009, 03:16 PM
#52
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St. Jude Donor '13
As a former employee of United Airlines, you could take Flint's article and substitute "United" for "GM"; get a pretty accurate picture of where the company has been and where it is going.
A bankruptcy judge can not make the management smart, nor make the unions smart, nor rebuild a disfunctional corporate culture, nor undo the fallout from previous decades of foolishness.
The good times are over at United and at GM, let's hope the Corvette survives in some usable form.
A bankruptcy judge can not make the management smart, nor make the unions smart, nor rebuild a disfunctional corporate culture, nor undo the fallout from previous decades of foolishness.
The good times are over at United and at GM, let's hope the Corvette survives in some usable form.
04-26-2009, 03:25 PM
#53
I agree. While it is said to see a historic name plate go, killing Pontiac is a step on the right direction. Buick, GMC, Saturn need to go or be sold, as does Saab and Hummer. A core business of Chevrolet and Cadillac can surive and prosper IMO.
04-26-2009, 04:14 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
Large and meaningful concessions must be made by the union. If not, like I said earlier this is nothing more then a expensive dog and pony show.
04-26-2009, 04:53 PM
#55
Safety Car
When I heard about the demise of Pontiac it almost brought tears to my eyes. Gettelfinger is arrogant and doesn't seem to understand how bad the situation is. Union probably needs to go away completely. Bringing wages down to Honda levels would be a start. Why not bring wages (white and blue coller) down well below the competition until things turn around? Cut, cut, cut. Camaro looks like a winner. Corvette is a winnner. Concentrate on reliability. If everyone would work together than they wouldn't have needed to go to Washington but it's the union against management. No win situation as long as that continues and now it looks like Obama (Mr Goodwrench) will force them to make crap that's boring boring boring.
04-26-2009, 05:19 PM
#56
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Yep, that's it. He wants to kill GM by getting rid of the best stuff. You guys got all this "word on the street" from Rush & Shaun didn't you? I don't really think you hate to say that at all.
Maybe what you should imagine is a business that cuts a lot of the chaff and combines what works and sells well into fewer brands built in more efficient ways? Take the best of Chevy & GMC trucks and combine them into one brand. Take the best of Pontiac & Saturn & Chevy and do the same. Imagine the savings. This combines work forces/facilities/supply chains/warehousing/distribution/whatever. Will it be painful? You bet. Might it save GM? It very well could.
Maybe what you should imagine is a business that cuts a lot of the chaff and combines what works and sells well into fewer brands built in more efficient ways? Take the best of Chevy & GMC trucks and combine them into one brand. Take the best of Pontiac & Saturn & Chevy and do the same. Imagine the savings. This combines work forces/facilities/supply chains/warehousing/distribution/whatever. Will it be painful? You bet. Might it save GM? It very well could.
Sorry but please don't include the morons in DC (all of them) with making intelligent decisions. business or otherwise! I'm willing to give Boma-Boma another 6 months to see how "His" recovery plan actually works..... After that it's open season as far as I'm concerned....
Bottom line is the US govt has ZERO credible ideas how to profitability run any business, let alone something as complex as vehicle selling and manufacturing!
04-26-2009, 05:30 PM
#57
When I heard about the demise of Pontiac it almost brought tears to my eyes. Gettelfinger is arrogant and doesn't seem to understand how bad the situation is. Union probably needs to go away completely. Bringing wages down to Honda levels would be a start. Why not bring wages (white and blue coller) down well below the competition until things turn around? Cut, cut, cut. Camaro looks like a winner. Corvette is a winnner. Concentrate on reliability. If everyone would work together than they wouldn't have needed to go to Washington but it's the union against management. No win situation as long as that continues and now it looks like Obama (Mr Goodwrench) will force them to make crap that's boring boring boring.
If you are talking about Honda/Toyota pay scale fine but remember that they been very successful by making what appears to be, in your opinion, very boring cars. Honda doesn't really have that many car & truck & SUV models (16 including Acura) and they are going to discontinue the S2000 at the same time they are bringing back the Insight. What does that tell you about what cars they see a need for? Obama isn't forcing them into it. Their business model is just more sparse and concentrated. Toyota is very similar. One line of trucks/SUVs, one or two lines of cars.
04-26-2009, 05:43 PM
#58
And the government would know "WHAT" about running anything efficient or effectively? Yep GM has made many poor decisions but nothing compared to the morons that have been running this country for the past 50 years! That BTW includes both political sides ..... all idiots! The country now finds itself with a set of financial books that would get any other entity fitted for an orange jump suit.
Sorry but please don't include the morons in DC (all of them) with making intelligent decisions. business or otherwise! I'm willing to give Boma-Boma another 6 months to see how "His" recovery plan actually works..... After that it's open season as far as I'm concerned....
Bottom line is the US govt has ZERO credible ideas how to profitability run any business, let alone something as complex as vehicle selling and manufacturing!
Sorry but please don't include the morons in DC (all of them) with making intelligent decisions. business or otherwise! I'm willing to give Boma-Boma another 6 months to see how "His" recovery plan actually works..... After that it's open season as far as I'm concerned....
Bottom line is the US govt has ZERO credible ideas how to profitability run any business, let alone something as complex as vehicle selling and manufacturing!
Well, I would certainly agree that on a daily basis, the gov. folks need to get out of the way but charting an overall course for the road ahead when it is funded by the taxpayer...I'd like to have some friggen oversight by gov-beholden expertise.
04-26-2009, 06:32 PM
#59
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St. Jude Donor '06-13,'16-'17, '19
Tom
04-26-2009, 07:18 PM
#60
Race Director
So they would take losing billions for sure over an attempt to make it better? I could care less what Barrons or anyone else who makes their money that way says. They were probably promoting Madoff all the way. Clearly, you and many others pay way too much attention to what analysts and writers say.
I remember how everyone in the business press thought Enron was the greatest thing since sliced bread. They were total crooks who held the entire energy market in California hostage. If you are saying total corruption is what capitalism is, maybe we need a bit more oversight. Is the oversight going to work? I don't know but the alternative appears to have failed miserably.
I remember how everyone in the business press thought Enron was the greatest thing since sliced bread. They were total crooks who held the entire energy market in California hostage. If you are saying total corruption is what capitalism is, maybe we need a bit more oversight. Is the oversight going to work? I don't know but the alternative appears to have failed miserably.