warranty --- what mods void it?
05-30-2009, 05:48 AM
#21
Thanks to the GM computer system, that isn't likely to work. Once a dealer pulls up the file on a car and finds that a warranty claim has been denied, he is unlikely to be willing to fight GM to get that decision reversed.
05-30-2009, 08:58 AM
#22
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21
Its convoluted logic.
The 5yr/100K mile warranty protection, to fix anything which goes wrong on it for free of charge to you, and at a variety of locations, was included in the price you paid for the car.
To then mod the car, and let the manufacturer out of that obligation which you paid him money for, and he agreed to, makes little if any sense.
And to then have to pay yourself should something break, even if it was remotely related to your modding (for example an engine which goes following a tune, which maybe would have gone even without the tune, but since the car was tuned, they are giving you a hassle about covering it.)
If something is going to happen to it, during the time period and mileage that I paid them to cover it, and during the time period and mileage whereby they had agreed to cover it....well then let them cover it.
The manufacturer is not going to give you the money back that you paid him for the peace of mind of warrantying it, and was figured into the purchase price of the car, when you start modding . Even though he is off the hook for any subsequent repairs.
He just took your money and said: "Mod away. But if something should bust, don't come to me unless you are coming with your wallet open, so that I can take some more of your money, because our earlier agreement that I would fix it, the agreement you paid me for, is null and void."
The 5yr/100K mile warranty protection, to fix anything which goes wrong on it for free of charge to you, and at a variety of locations, was included in the price you paid for the car.
To then mod the car, and let the manufacturer out of that obligation which you paid him money for, and he agreed to, makes little if any sense.
And to then have to pay yourself should something break, even if it was remotely related to your modding (for example an engine which goes following a tune, which maybe would have gone even without the tune, but since the car was tuned, they are giving you a hassle about covering it.)
If something is going to happen to it, during the time period and mileage that I paid them to cover it, and during the time period and mileage whereby they had agreed to cover it....well then let them cover it.
The manufacturer is not going to give you the money back that you paid him for the peace of mind of warrantying it, and was figured into the purchase price of the car, when you start modding . Even though he is off the hook for any subsequent repairs.
He just took your money and said: "Mod away. But if something should bust, don't come to me unless you are coming with your wallet open, so that I can take some more of your money, because our earlier agreement that I would fix it, the agreement you paid me for, is null and void."
I have to agree with the quote above.
IMHO, I don't see the point in modding a car capable of doing 186, 190, 198 or 205 MPH (depending on which model C6 you have) to go faster. I personally would NOT want to be the guinea pig for the aftermarket industry.
Are there aftermarket companies that know what they are doing? Of course! Lingenfelter, Katech, Callaway, and companies of that ilk are very competent and they stand behind their work and do things right the first time. Of course you get what you pay for, and with those outfits, you are going to pay a LOT to get a lot.
If you have the cash to take a $47-$103K sports car apart and mod it for speed then you should have the cash to fix it out of pocket if the car breaks. These machines hardly resemble a 70s muscle car. They are essentially computers on wheels. Additionally, I care not if someone has a car that is faster than mine. More power to 'em
An after market intake seems a waste of money to me on this car (I have a 2009) The stock intake is much improved. If you have the dual-mode exhaust like I do, then a catback is also a waste of money, IMHO.
Most who want to mod are just guys that like to tinker. It's your car, so tinker away if you like. However, if you are worried about your warranty, then you probably shouldn't be tinkering with anything because you probably are unwilling to pay or unable to afford to fix a mistake or a failure out of pocket. Potential failure is the downside to modding.
I'd say that mod money would better spent going to a high performance driving school and learn how effectively use the HP you already have.
Again, if you have the cash to mod, then be prepared to pay for failures. If not, or if the warranty is important to you, then honor GM's wishes and don't mod the car.
05-30-2009, 09:53 AM
#23
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
No, they really don't. "They" have the proof of what the car was designed with, for and to withstand. If it's not their design and their product, or it doesn't meet their specifications and some part breaks related to an addition, it's on your dime.
For instance, while we may not agree with the oil required for our C6s, (and most of us don't have current petroleum laboratory engineering expertise) if you have an oil-related (or even non-oil related) engine failure, and if it has some oil in there that does not meet GM4718M, I would seriously doubt they'll replace/repair your engine under warranty. Some dealer with GM concurrence MAY do it as a courtesy, but I doubt it.
They can be "fussy" that way, and I bet it's going to get more stringent, not less.
For instance, while we may not agree with the oil required for our C6s, (and most of us don't have current petroleum laboratory engineering expertise) if you have an oil-related (or even non-oil related) engine failure, and if it has some oil in there that does not meet GM4718M, I would seriously doubt they'll replace/repair your engine under warranty. Some dealer with GM concurrence MAY do it as a courtesy, but I doubt it.
They can be "fussy" that way, and I bet it's going to get more stringent, not less.
05-30-2009, 09:57 AM
#24
It seems the warranty arguments that I used to read over in the C5 section are alive and well over here
I have to agree with the quote above.
IMHO, I don't see the point in modding a car capable of doing 186, 190, 198 or 205 MPH (depending on which model C6 you have) to go faster. I personally would NOT want to be the guinea pig for the aftermarket industry.
Are there aftermarket companies that know what they are doing? Of course! Lingenfelter, Katech, Callaway, and companies of that ilk are very competent and they stand behind their work and do things right the first time. Of course you get what you pay for, and with those outfits, you are going to pay a LOT to get a lot.
If you have the cash to take a $47-$103K sports car apart and mod it for speed then you should have the cash to fix it out of pocket if the car breaks. These machines hardly resemble a 70s muscle car. They are essentially computers on wheels. Additionally, I care not if someone has a car that is faster than mine. More power to 'em
An after market intake seems a waste of money to me on this car (I have a 2009) The stock intake is much improved. If you have the dual-mode exhaust like I do, then a catback is also a waste of money, IMHO.
Most who want to mod are just guys that like to tinker. It's your car, so tinker away if you like. However, if you are worried about your warranty, then you probably shouldn't be tinkering with anything because you probably are unwilling to pay or unable to afford to fix a mistake or a failure out of pocket. Potential failure is the downside to modding.
I'd say that mod money would better spent going to a high performance driving school and learn how effectively use the HP you already have.
Again, if you have the cash to mod, then be prepared to pay for failures. If not, or if the warranty is important to you, then honor GM's wishes and don't mod the car.
I have to agree with the quote above.
IMHO, I don't see the point in modding a car capable of doing 186, 190, 198 or 205 MPH (depending on which model C6 you have) to go faster. I personally would NOT want to be the guinea pig for the aftermarket industry.
Are there aftermarket companies that know what they are doing? Of course! Lingenfelter, Katech, Callaway, and companies of that ilk are very competent and they stand behind their work and do things right the first time. Of course you get what you pay for, and with those outfits, you are going to pay a LOT to get a lot.
If you have the cash to take a $47-$103K sports car apart and mod it for speed then you should have the cash to fix it out of pocket if the car breaks. These machines hardly resemble a 70s muscle car. They are essentially computers on wheels. Additionally, I care not if someone has a car that is faster than mine. More power to 'em
An after market intake seems a waste of money to me on this car (I have a 2009) The stock intake is much improved. If you have the dual-mode exhaust like I do, then a catback is also a waste of money, IMHO.
Most who want to mod are just guys that like to tinker. It's your car, so tinker away if you like. However, if you are worried about your warranty, then you probably shouldn't be tinkering with anything because you probably are unwilling to pay or unable to afford to fix a mistake or a failure out of pocket. Potential failure is the downside to modding.
I'd say that mod money would better spent going to a high performance driving school and learn how effectively use the HP you already have.
Again, if you have the cash to mod, then be prepared to pay for failures. If not, or if the warranty is important to you, then honor GM's wishes and don't mod the car.
and could not have said it any better. Well put.
05-30-2009, 10:04 AM
#25
No, they really don't. "They" have the proof of what the car was designed with, for and to withstand. If it's not their design and their product, or it doesn't meet their specifications and some part breaks related to an addition, it's on your dime.
For instance, while we may not agree with the oil required for our C6s, (and most of us don't have current petroleum laboratory engineering expertise) if you have an oil-related (or even non-oil related) engine failure, and if it has some oil in there that does not meet GM4718M, I would seriously doubt they'll replace/repair your engine under warranty. Some dealer with GM concurrence MAY do it as a courtesy, but I doubt it.
They can be "fussy" that way, and I bet it's going to get more stringent, not less.
For instance, while we may not agree with the oil required for our C6s, (and most of us don't have current petroleum laboratory engineering expertise) if you have an oil-related (or even non-oil related) engine failure, and if it has some oil in there that does not meet GM4718M, I would seriously doubt they'll replace/repair your engine under warranty. Some dealer with GM concurrence MAY do it as a courtesy, but I doubt it.
They can be "fussy" that way, and I bet it's going to get more stringent, not less.
Thats the sort of thing MM is for. It was never meant to be used so that you could hotrod your car and not pay should something bust as a result of your tinkering.
05-30-2009, 10:23 AM
#26
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21
But if you are using a Fram or a Puralator oil or air filter as opposed to an AC/Delco, then you should be fine.
Thats the sort of thing MM is for. It was never meant to be used so that you could hotrod your car and not pay should something bust as a result of your tinkering.
Thats the sort of thing MM is for. It was never meant to be used so that you could hotrod your car and not pay should something bust as a result of your tinkering.
seems some on this board need to READ and UNDERSTAND the intent behind the Mag-Moss Act 
05-30-2009, 11:10 AM
#27
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It seems the warranty arguments that I used to read over in the C5 section are alive and well over here
I have to agree with the quote above.
IMHO, I don't see the point in modding a car capable of doing 186, 190, 198 or 205 MPH (depending on which model C6 you have) to go faster. I personally would NOT want to be the guinea pig for the aftermarket industry.
Are there aftermarket companies that know what they are doing? Of course! Lingenfelter, Katech, Callaway, and companies of that ilk are very competent and they stand behind their work and do things right the first time. Of course you get what you pay for, and with those outfits, you are going to pay a LOT to get a lot.
If you have the cash to take a $47-$103K sports car apart and mod it for speed then you should have the cash to fix it out of pocket if the car breaks. These machines hardly resemble a 70s muscle car. They are essentially computers on wheels. Additionally, I care not if someone has a car that is faster than mine. More power to 'em
An after market intake seems a waste of money to me on this car (I have a 2009) The stock intake is much improved. If you have the dual-mode exhaust like I do, then a catback is also a waste of money, IMHO.
Most who want to mod are just guys that like to tinker. It's your car, so tinker away if you like. However, if you are worried about your warranty, then you probably shouldn't be tinkering with anything because you probably are unwilling to pay or unable to afford to fix a mistake or a failure out of pocket. Potential failure is the downside to modding.
I'd say that mod money would better spent going to a high performance driving school and learn how effectively use the HP you already have.
Again, if you have the cash to mod, then be prepared to pay for failures. If not, or if the warranty is important to you, then honor GM's wishes and don't mod the car.
I have to agree with the quote above.
IMHO, I don't see the point in modding a car capable of doing 186, 190, 198 or 205 MPH (depending on which model C6 you have) to go faster. I personally would NOT want to be the guinea pig for the aftermarket industry.
Are there aftermarket companies that know what they are doing? Of course! Lingenfelter, Katech, Callaway, and companies of that ilk are very competent and they stand behind their work and do things right the first time. Of course you get what you pay for, and with those outfits, you are going to pay a LOT to get a lot.
If you have the cash to take a $47-$103K sports car apart and mod it for speed then you should have the cash to fix it out of pocket if the car breaks. These machines hardly resemble a 70s muscle car. They are essentially computers on wheels. Additionally, I care not if someone has a car that is faster than mine. More power to 'em
An after market intake seems a waste of money to me on this car (I have a 2009) The stock intake is much improved. If you have the dual-mode exhaust like I do, then a catback is also a waste of money, IMHO.
Most who want to mod are just guys that like to tinker. It's your car, so tinker away if you like. However, if you are worried about your warranty, then you probably shouldn't be tinkering with anything because you probably are unwilling to pay or unable to afford to fix a mistake or a failure out of pocket. Potential failure is the downside to modding.
I'd say that mod money would better spent going to a high performance driving school and learn how effectively use the HP you already have.
Again, if you have the cash to mod, then be prepared to pay for failures. If not, or if the warranty is important to you, then honor GM's wishes and don't mod the car.
That just about covers it. One more thing. Should you ever want to sell your modded Vette, very few folks will want to buy your used Tinker Toy.
05-30-2009, 11:19 AM
#28
If I say the same things, there are people in here chomping at the bit to let me have it for saying them.
But its good to see that you are saying them. Perhaps I made an impact.
05-30-2009, 11:46 AM
#29
Drifting
I would not be concerned with mods as it will be interesting to see what happens to our warranty once GM is bankrupt. While there have been statements made that the government will pay...... where is it going to get the money ????? last time I checked they spent it all. 
So for now, who knows what the remaining dealers will do as GM enters bankruptcy. GM will try to wiggle out of all its obligations with the help of the government. Remember the government makes the laws and it has been tweaking the pre bankruptcy proceedings to get what the president wants for GM so just think where we all fix in the puzzle.
So for now, who knows what the remaining dealers will do as GM enters bankruptcy. GM will try to wiggle out of all its obligations with the help of the government. Remember the government makes the laws and it has been tweaking the pre bankruptcy proceedings to get what the president wants for GM so just think where we all fix in the puzzle.
I understand what you are saying and agree this is possible.
However, if GM defaults on our warranty, they may as well close the place down today because no one will buy a car from them.
05-30-2009, 12:03 PM
#30
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21
No offense, but a lot of your posts come off to the pro-mod crowd as vehemently anti-mod (I don't read your comments that way, but from what I can tell, the guys that flame you do
).I am not against someone modding their car. Your car, your money and there are MANY modification success stories. Its the guys that log on here worried about their warranty and ready to mod 5 seconds after they take delivery of a new Vette and then take offense when someone warns them about the possible downsides (and loss of warranty). IMHO, if you have to ask the question the OP posed to start this thread, then you probably are unwilling to pay or unable to afford to have something fail should you mod the car.
Most who mod know going in (if they are honest with themselves) that they shouldn't rely on GM to fix potential failures. As I said before, there are a number of tuners out there that warrant their work. HP cost money, pay to have it done right.
On the subject of warranties, a factory warranty is NOT a service agreement. Its a guarantee that protects you from defects or failures on the car as it was built from the factory. If you add headers, H/C swap, S/C, CAI, tuning, etc. and something fails then GM has every right to deny warranty work because your car is no longer as it was when it left Bowling Green, KY.
An extended warranty IS a service agreement. 99% of extended warranties require that the car be in stock trim. Most will not even sell you a warranty if you have a car with mods
Bottom line: If you are concerned about your warranty, then chances are you can't afford to be without one. Do what it takes to maintain it
05-30-2009, 12:08 PM
#31
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05-30-2009, 12:59 PM
#32
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. The HHR is too damn small, Cobalt . The Malibu and Traverse are fine, I guess, but exciting, no.Tom Peters, Chief Designer for the C6 is great. To bad they can't clone him to head all the other projects. G.M./Chevrolet needs more designers like Tom, with the vision, style, and taste, to bring to market products that get the public jazzed about buying a new vehicle again. Like many are jazzed about the new Camaro.
05-30-2009, 02:28 PM
#33
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21
To me G.M. is Chevrolet. And Chevrolet was the Tri 5s, 55-57 SB Stepsides, other trucks, vans, Corvettes, Novas, Chevelles, Camaros, Silverados, and Surburbans. What's left? The C6 is great, the new Camaro is cool, the new Silverado kind of looks like s!ht to me right now, although the interior is nice, but the front end and the giant rear wheel wells . The HHR is too damn small, Cobalt . The Malibu and Traverse are fine, I guess, but exciting, no.
Tom Peters, Chief Designer for the C6 is great. To bad they can't clone him to head all the other projects. G.M./Chevrolet needs more designers like Tom, with the vision, style, and taste, to bring to market products that get the public jazzed about buying a new vehicle again. Like many are jazzed about the new Camaro.
. The HHR is too damn small, Cobalt . The Malibu and Traverse are fine, I guess, but exciting, no.Tom Peters, Chief Designer for the C6 is great. To bad they can't clone him to head all the other projects. G.M./Chevrolet needs more designers like Tom, with the vision, style, and taste, to bring to market products that get the public jazzed about buying a new vehicle again. Like many are jazzed about the new Camaro.
somewhat with your post. I think GM is on track to do well once sales pick up and as the economy recovers. Their line up as it is now is hit (Vette, Malibu, Traverse, Camaro) or miss (HHR, Suburban....) Just gotta clean up the misses
05-30-2009, 03:27 PM
#34
Drifting
A guy once said "waiting till its out of warranty to do something really makes no sense, If you wait and break you pay,,,,,,,if you do it now and break you pay. Same net, why wait? enjoy it now i thot it was an interesting point. good luck and enjoy the car. love the color, paul
i thot it was an interesting point. good luck and enjoy the car. love the color, paul
05-30-2009, 04:50 PM
#35
05-31-2009, 11:16 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Remember there will be fewer dealers.
I already received a letter from Saturn explaining the fact that if I need warranty service I can call their customer service number to get it, not very convenient at all, considering all the Saturn dealers near me are now gone. I firmly believe that our only hope may be Ford. (Yup
back to the dark side) They have to compete with government run auto companies (Chrysler & GM) and we all know how efficient government bureaucrats can be. If Ford is smart they will improve their warranty service as well as provide cars everyone will want to drive at an affordable price (even us gear heads)
06-01-2009, 12:03 AM
#37
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Maybe everyone needs to read the federal Magnuson-Moss act regarding warranties. It is not long and is very clear reading.
The warranty is a written contract and can not just be voided. As has been said to DENY a claim against the warranty the manufacturer must prove that the change was the proximate cause of the failure. Covettes and HD motorcycles is where this issue comes up the most often.
A tune is and of itself not proof that it was the cause of the failure such as the automatic trans blew. It makes the manufacturer suspect abuse. They will try anything to get out of it. But, I for one am ready to hammer them in court if needed. The easy route is to pay for the repair and go to small claims court were they must prove up the cause of the failure. As a corporation they can not show up in small claims court with out a lawyer so their cost are high.
The warranty is a written contract and can not just be voided. As has been said to DENY a claim against the warranty the manufacturer must prove that the change was the proximate cause of the failure. Covettes and HD motorcycles is where this issue comes up the most often.
A tune is and of itself not proof that it was the cause of the failure such as the automatic trans blew. It makes the manufacturer suspect abuse. They will try anything to get out of it. But, I for one am ready to hammer them in court if needed. The easy route is to pay for the repair and go to small claims court were they must prove up the cause of the failure. As a corporation they can not show up in small claims court with out a lawyer so their cost are high.
Last edited by lh4x4; 06-01-2009 at 12:09 AM.
06-02-2009, 04:50 PM
#38
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06-02-2009, 05:19 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
My stock C6 is all the car I need, and is far faster and better than I am. I'm hoping to go to HPDE school this October, and I really feel that is the best money I can spend right now. According to all of the folks here on the Forum when I asked, the only thing I really need to do for HPDE is change the brake fluid to DOT 4 so it won't boil.
Last edited by Blue Demon Owner; 06-02-2009 at 05:21 PM.
