Putting my political views on the issue aside, I disagree with the idea that indefinite subsidies are in the offing. Subsidies will be needed to bring down the cost to the buyer of high efficiency/low volume cars like the Volt (that introduce new and expensive technology) but once automakers reach economies of scale with these technologies the cost will drop along with the need for subsidies.

The crucial point about imposing an across the board mileage standard is that both consumers and buyers will be forced to adapt. Cars need replacement eventually and people adapt. Just like 4k pound sedans with bench seats, steel body panels and bumpers, and big block V8s gave way to high performance V6's the current crop of cars will give way to more efficient ones like the new Ford Fusion. (which FWIW, goes a LONG way in easing the transitition due it's looks/amenities)

I agree in part, and I'd like to see the Corvette become lighter and more nimble. However, an efficient V8 like the LSx series making solid low end power paired with good highway gearing will outmatch most performance V6's in highway mileage. At 14.7:1 constant the difference in fuel consumption between a V8 at ~1500rpm and a V6 at ~2500rpm is nill.

 

GM is rethinking releasing the Volt - with gas at $2 gal, selling a $40000 electric will be difficult

 

GM Says It's Closer To Cleaner, More Fuel-Efficient EngineLast update: 5/20/2009 9:01:00 AM

By Sharon Terlep
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
DETROIT (Dow Jones)--General Motors Corp. (GM) said Wednesday it's getting closer to developing a new engine that would deliver diesel-like fuel economy with lower emissions. The engine, called a homogeneous charge compression ignition or HCCI, could be a decade away and faces substantial challenges before truly becoming road ready. But the cash-strapped auto maker needs all the help it can get on the fuel economy front. As of this week, GM faces added pressure of stepped-up federal fuel economy standards that promise to complicate the already daunting task of loading its fleet with gas-sipping technologies while slashing staff and spending. "As the emissions standards continue to get tighter and tighter it is a challenge and it really will be a question of cost," said Paul Najt, group manager of group manager of GM's Powertrain Systems Research. "With this, we now have a system that is robust enough to put on the open road." GM says the engine will deliver a 15% fuel economy improvement from a comparable engine on the road today. The auto maker has successfully tested engine in vehicles, but has yet to prove its durability over time or in extreme temperatures. GM is competing against rival auto makers to bring the HCCI engines to market, most of which have various projects in the works. The engines are desirable because they provide much of the fuel efficiency of a diesel without the expensive aftertreatments required to get a diesel to meet emissions standards. But auto makers have approached the technology with various levels of skepticism given the complexity of making sure the engine can stand up to stringent emissions, durability and cost demands. Volkswagen AG (VLKAY) and Toyota Motor Co. (TM) have each said they believe HCCI is a technology of the more distant future. While the HCCI engine may be years away, a federal mandate to improve fuel efficiency is closing in. The Obama administration this week said it plans to order auto makers to increase the fuel economy of automobiles sold in the U.S. to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016, four years faster than current law requires. -By Sharon Terlep, Dow Jones Newswires; 248-204-5512; Sharon.Terlep@dowjones.com (END) Dow Jones Newswires

 

Vette future will simply depend on the iconic value it adds to the Chevy line. If they consider people somehow relate their bugmobile purchase to the Corvette engineering heritage it will remain.

Unfortunately the younger generation is going hook line and sinker over the "green" nonsense, so it's not likely many performance oriented young people are even out there. (Not counting the younger forum members.)
The smartest thing GM could do to keep the Vette would simply announce how it is the "greenest" of all Detroit production, and all the Corvette technical no how is going into small efficient car production.

Start running adds on the great fuel milage of the current Vette. If a 435 hp car can produce these milage numbers imagine what can GM engineers can do with a small car. Just use the word "Green" frequently and at every oportunity. I would even make the 2010 brochure with green ink and paper.

And, I could even live with a British Racing Green Special "Green Earth Edition" on the cover. Put one on every dealers lot with green baloons and lots of green publicity announcing it. It could have a 300 inch V8 producing 300 hp and 40mpg as an "option".

LJ

 

ding ding ding!

Raising the mpg of their higher volume cars will be the top priority. I'd expect to see more hybrids and turbo diesels available from all the US manufacturers in the next 3 years. I could see the Malibu be only available with either a hybrid or turbo diesel. Same for the Cobalt, HHR, and the Aveo.

A change to diesel would cost Chevy/GM the least.. They already sell them in Europe.. Most of the costs would involve the emissions controls for here in the US.. Unless we get to a point where only sulfur free diesel is being sold here, in which case most of the european diesels would prob meet or exceed US emissions requirements.

 

I disagree, there is a huge segment of young performance oriented drivers, most drive imports but they are there and enjoy sports/sports coupe cars

 

As someone who has gone hook line and sinker on that "nonsense" I guess I'll chime in. I think the older generation believes that "green" and "high performance" are mutually exclusive, even though the cars we drive today pretty much disprove that idea in it's entirety. They've become lighter, safer, more efficient, and made more power then ever before. Corvette is not viewed as the problem, the 3 Ton Soccer Tanks are.

I love my Vette for the engineering and efficiency it represents. I loved my Lancer Evolution for it's near 1G of lateral grip, AWD, and the 480whp it was able to make with a 2.0L motor.

Cutting our usage of foreign oil, and hence our emissions, has both environmental and economically positive effects. The days of unlimited cheap oil are done, so we need to adapt. We need a culture change when it comes to vehicles, once the "Hummers" of the world are gone people won't feel compelled to buy one to keep up with the Joneses. Similarly, once we're all driving fuel efficient cars you won't stand out on the road like a sore thumb in a car like a Prius. Also consider that the cars of today would be considered pretty unattractive by 1950s/60s standards, everything is relative.

 

It's old news, and it fell by the wayside, but GM was investigating a mid-engine layout for the corvette to allow for cylinder deactivation, the aim being higher mileage for day-to-day around-town driving, while still having a monster engine on-tap for when extra power is wanted.
The approach apparently didn't bear fruit when under the constraints of reusing sufficient existing parts from other lines, etc etc, but I like what it shows about their priorities.

 

Posters need to remember that CAFE is a two tier system. Under the new rules, the car fleet will have to meet 42 MPG average, trucks face a lesser 27.5 MPG standard. The media has combined the two, trying to fool us into believing the target is only 35 MPG, but that's not the way the law reads. The targets are separate for the two types. Manufacturers can't trade off one for the other. This puts much more pressure on manufacturers to downsize and down power their cars to meet the 42 MPG average.

Now as to how this will affect the European exotics sold here, virtually not at all. They already fail the current CAFE standard. Their response, they simply pay the fines and build that into the price of their cars. BMW paid $220 million in the last reporting year. They will continue to do so. GM can't do that because GM makes too many cars. The fines are levied against a manufacturer's entire fleet sold here if the corporate average is violated. If a manufacturer only sells a relative handful of cars in the US, and all of them are high margin, no big deal. But if the manufacturer sells millions of cars, most low end cars with thin margins, then it can't afford to bust CAFE.

Expect cars made by the mass manufacturers in this country to be drastically de-powered and downsized in order to fall under the 42 MPG cap. Manufacturers will be doing everything they can to avoid CAFE fines. Expect cars like the Camaro, Challenger, and the Corvette to be cancelled. Every little tenth of a MPG in a manufacturer's CAFE represents hundreds of millions of dollars in fines that the manufacturers can't ignore.

Trucks are less at risk. GM and Ford already have a number that meet the new target for trucks. Expect to see more diesels. Also expect to see more "alternative" fuel vehicles because manufacturers get extra CAFE credit for that. That's why GM markets "E85" vehicles. Even though E85 is practically unavailable in this country, and likely will always be a tiny part of our fuel supply, it gives GM a big CAFE boost to market trucks as "E85" dual fuel capable. Smoke and mirrors, but it partially gets the government off GM's back. This continues under the new law.

Again it is worth noting that small volume manufacturers selling exotics essentially don't have to worry about any of this. They just pay the fines, and because their total production volume sold in the US is low, the fines are easily absorbed into the high margin price of their products. So one possible way out for Corvette is if GM sells the Corvette brand to a foreign maker who currently doesn't sell to the US market. They can then simply pay the fine, a few thousand per car, and add it to the price. They could even enter into a marketing agreement with select Chevy dealers to sell and service the cars. The plant could remain where it is, and continue to use GM parts. Since the CAFE for trucks is still relatively low, V8s and their associated drivetrain components will still be available in high volume, meaning low production price, so they can continue to be used in the Corvette. In other words, this could be essentially a paper transaction. Nothing would really change except some Cayman Island account numbers, but it would circumvent the government's intent to have us all driving tiny crapboxes.

 

This pretty much makes my case.
LJ

 

To obtain higher MPG depends on a few things...

The aero of the current production is good, rolling resistance (no idea on future tire/rim weight/width)...but weight is on the "heavy" side and possibly could be trimmed out and still meet crash tests.

But perhaps, until some future date...(this is not intended for an argument on the "best" configuration or Corvette "purist" )

Unfortunately, the "pushrod" V8 MAY come to an end. OHC or DOHC multi-valve V8's with direct injection and variable cam timing, may come into play soon. The Lotus engine was an early example of this technology in the ZR1.

No crystal ball here...

 

Ditto for you.

 

I am very impressed with the way this forum can intelligently discuss issues when politics is left out.

I really think we will see a lot of new transmissions in GM's near future. As some have mentioned, a 7 spd or a CVT-style tranny can make a big difference in mpg. Lots of other tricks up their sleeves from the hybrid world like electric-motor assist (especially in town) and reduced-idle engine strategies.

For instance, on the Prius:
"If the gas engine and catalytic converter are sufficiently warmed up, the car will cut fuel to the gas engine as soon as you take your foot off the accelerator (rather than when it comes to a stop). With the Prius' ability to coast, this can happen quite a while before the car comes to a stop. Then as the vehicle slows down, once it drops below 41 MPH, the gas engine will stop spinning as you continue to slow the car with your foot off the accelerator."

As for the Vette, I really see little change to the performance ratings. There may be newer trannys and lighter components but I don't see HP going up any time soon. At this point, I'd guess that there are very few Corvette owners who feel the need for the stock Vette's hp to go up. And for those that do, they can still mod their cars as they do already.

 

The only time a hybrid has a fuel advantage is slowing without braking, or on downhill runs. How many times in your city driving do you coast to a stop, rather than brake. Around here if you let off for a stop light a block early to coast to a stop you will get runover.
An equal small car without the battery weight disadvantage will equal the hybrid's milage in actual driving. The EPA test for Hybrids is rigged to show a disproportinate amount of slowing down without braking.
But they won't change the rating method because it's rigged to promote "Green Cars".

LJ

 

Do not forget. Due to this legislation your new Corvette will cost on average of $1200-$1500 more. That does not include the normal cost increases. This is beyond bad news.

Soon you will only have a choice of what small car you want to buy. I'm not one for a lawnmower with a couple of seats on it. But, it looks as if that is what my choice will be soon.

 

The corvette is already an old-guy car, but I like to think that this is because it is not something many people can afford when starting out in life, and then later on it's not practical while raising kids, so people tend to end up waiting until later in life to get one.

I don't want the corvette to turn into the Harley; a classic, an icon, but stagnant, out of touch with the modern world, its ridership getting older and older every year, its market shrinking because the ridership is dying out - literally - from old age. NO THANK YOU!

The corvette is the combination of old-school power and cutting edge modern technology. It is known for things like it's HUD almost as much as for it's power. Among (many) other things, the corvette is about having the future, today.

The corvette will continue to march into the future, as it always has. Some people are comfortable with the now and don't want the future. It's widely recognized (though not always acted on) that pandering too much to that demographic can be a catastrophic mistake over the long-term.

I look forward to what the hammers of today's challenges are going to forge in the fires of corvette design. The corvettes of the future are going to be better than than corvettes of today, no question.

 

 

I don't think I'm going to be happy with any of this BS.

 

I disagree that the only time a hybrid has an advantage is slowing or braking or downhill runs (tho these are significant advantages in my book). It has an advantage when it is stopped at a light or any kind of drive thru because the engine stops and then starts when I press the accelerator. Then it can take off without the gas motor at all. This saves significant fuel.

I do this very often when I am driving my Camry hybrid because it has a CVT and does not really lose much speed when I let up on the gas UNLESS I am going uphill. It is like the car is in neutral (tho it isn't) at any moment.

I'm not suggesting that the Corvette needs to do this but some of these strategies could be used without losing performance.

 

I went to the local car show recently and I was surprised to see the push GM had for the Hybrid SUVs. We're not talking small SUVs, We're talking Tahoes and Escalades.
The technology is there to make the Corvette lighter and more efficient, I agree on the "more gears" and the direct injection would make a better case for the Corvette to meet the CAFE standard.
Not really sure if using a supercharged V6 will be that much more efficient than the current LS* engines, so I believe the V8 will survive.

If GM sells more Hybrids and if the Volt takes off and sells like hotcakes, it will allow GM to preserve the Vette as it is today with minor tweaking and not have to dump it.