Info on GS LS3 "Hand Built w/ Forged Crank"
08-21-2009, 02:24 PM
#21
08-21-2009, 03:09 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
That forged crank might be a small clue of flexible upgrades in the future. Possibly phase out the Z06/LS7 and provide an upgraded Super GS option. Making more engines at that plant keeps the doors open and helps with the expense/budget for GM.
08-21-2009, 04:36 PM
#25
Racer
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I'd be more worried about forged pistons than a forged crank until you get into some of the more wild set ups. There are guys running stock cranks making over 1,000 HP. Still nice that it's there though I guess.
Its Z51 and F55 all over again.....
08-21-2009, 05:08 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
08-21-2009, 05:46 PM
#33
Safety Car
Grand Sport M6 Coupes get the dry sump, and it's built at Wixom. I'm pretty sure this was announced at the time of the Grand Sport introduction.
My guess is that the reason for the Wixom + forged crank is simply commonality with the LS9. Assembling the front of the dry sump LS motors is different, and this way they don't have to retool the main LS engine line to handle it. The crank for the dry sump engine is different due to the way the oil pump is driven, and if they can use the same crank, or at least the same forging, as the LS9 that's another cost saving.
This is all good news for the Wixom folks, and indirectly for Corvette. Wixom needs a certain volume to be viable, and this should ensure it. I'm happy for the crew there - they're good folks.
One thing I'm not clear on is whether the Wixom-built LS3s will get a builder's tag.
My guess is that the reason for the Wixom + forged crank is simply commonality with the LS9. Assembling the front of the dry sump LS motors is different, and this way they don't have to retool the main LS engine line to handle it. The crank for the dry sump engine is different due to the way the oil pump is driven, and if they can use the same crank, or at least the same forging, as the LS9 that's another cost saving.
This is all good news for the Wixom folks, and indirectly for Corvette. Wixom needs a certain volume to be viable, and this should ensure it. I'm happy for the crew there - they're good folks.
One thing I'm not clear on is whether the Wixom-built LS3s will get a builder's tag.
Last edited by Gannet; 08-21-2009 at 05:50 PM.
08-21-2009, 05:54 PM
#34
08-21-2009, 06:03 PM
#35
Pro
Grand Sport M6 Coupes get the dry sump, and it's built at Wixom. I'm pretty sure this was announced at the time of the Grand Sport introduction.
My guess is that the reason for the Wixom + forged crank is simply commonality with the LS9. Assembling the front of the dry sump LS motors is different, and this way they don't have to retool the main LS engine line to handle it. The crank for the dry sump engine is different due to the way the oil pump is driven, and if they can use the same crank, or at least the same forging, as the LS9 that's another cost saving.
This is all good news for the Wixom folks, and indirectly for Corvette. Wixom needs a certain volume to be viable, and this should ensure it. I'm happy for the crew there - they're good folks.
One thing I'm not clear on is whether the Wixom-built LS3s will get a builder's tag.
My guess is that the reason for the Wixom + forged crank is simply commonality with the LS9. Assembling the front of the dry sump LS motors is different, and this way they don't have to retool the main LS engine line to handle it. The crank for the dry sump engine is different due to the way the oil pump is driven, and if they can use the same crank, or at least the same forging, as the LS9 that's another cost saving.
This is all good news for the Wixom folks, and indirectly for Corvette. Wixom needs a certain volume to be viable, and this should ensure it. I'm happy for the crew there - they're good folks.
One thing I'm not clear on is whether the Wixom-built LS3s will get a builder's tag.
I sure hope not...too many Z06 motor stories...and too many without warranty...this Forum has been a great source for "hand built" engine failures...Again, I hope the LS3 continues without troubles.
08-21-2009, 06:15 PM
#36
Team Owner
30 years from now at the Mecum auto auctions...
"and this beauty here has the very rare GS package with the original handbuilt engine complete with forged cranks. This baby is bound to bring big money at tonghts auction. To make it even more special, it's the year they brought back Torch Red. Unfortunately, this was a short lived model as government standards pretty much killed the internal combusion engine just 18 months after the 2010 GS was introduced..."
"and this beauty here has the very rare GS package with the original handbuilt engine complete with forged cranks. This baby is bound to bring big money at tonghts auction. To make it even more special, it's the year they brought back Torch Red. Unfortunately, this was a short lived model as government standards pretty much killed the internal combusion engine just 18 months after the 2010 GS was introduced..."
08-21-2009, 06:18 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
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30 years from now at the Mecum auto auctions...
"and this beauty here has the very rare GS package with the original handbuilt engine complete with forged cranks. This baby is bound to bring big money at tonghts auction. To make it even more special, it's the year they brought back Torch Red. Unfortunately, this was a short lived model as government standards pretty much killed the internal combusion engine just 18 months after the 2010 GS was introduced..."
"and this beauty here has the very rare GS package with the original handbuilt engine complete with forged cranks. This baby is bound to bring big money at tonghts auction. To make it even more special, it's the year they brought back Torch Red. Unfortunately, this was a short lived model as government standards pretty much killed the internal combusion engine just 18 months after the 2010 GS was introduced..."
08-21-2009, 06:22 PM
#38
Safety Car
One thing I'm not clear on Gannet, does this mean we are going to start reading about LS3 failures as well as LS7 failures?
I sure hope not...too many Z06 motor stories...and too many without warranty...this Forum has been a great source for "hand built" engine failures...Again, I hope the LS3 continues without troubles.
I sure hope not...too many Z06 motor stories...and too many without warranty...this Forum has been a great source for "hand built" engine failures...Again, I hope the LS3 continues without troubles.
LS7 failures seem to fall into two categories: those brought low due to problem rocker arms produced during a certain period, now long past, and those that have had oiling-related bearing failures. IMO we now have enough data (not speculation) on the oiling failures that we know what causes it: left-hand turns over 1G for more than 4 seconds. See this thread and this thread. It's something that seems to require a race track in a particular configuraton to produce. It also looks like it is cleared up with the larger capacity dry sump introduced with the LS9 and '09 Z, which the dry sump LS3s will also get. So far as I know, and I try to follow the threads in the Z forum pretty closely, we haven't had any failures of '09s. Mine will turn 20k miles any day now, but then I don't track my car.
I don't think anyone has been able to show a pattern of failures due to the Wixom assembly process itself. I took the tour of the PBC about a week after taking delivery and I was blown away by the way the assembly is managed, measured, and recorded. Believe me, if there's a problem with the assembly process, they will know in very short order, not when engines start blowing up.
You looking to try again on a C6? I could see you in a Crystal Red Grand Sport vert! Get the Dark Titanium 3LZ interior, put a set of spyder wheels and a hood stripe on it and there ya go!
08-21-2009, 06:25 PM
#39
30 years from now at the Mecum auto auctions...
"and this beauty here has the very rare GS package with the original handbuilt engine complete with forged cranks. This baby is bound to bring big money at tonghts auction. To make it even more special, it's the year they brought back Torch Red. Unfortunately, this was a short lived model as government standards pretty much killed the internal combusion engine just 18 months after the 2010 GS was introduced..."
"and this beauty here has the very rare GS package with the original handbuilt engine complete with forged cranks. This baby is bound to bring big money at tonghts auction. To make it even more special, it's the year they brought back Torch Red. Unfortunately, this was a short lived model as government standards pretty much killed the internal combusion engine just 18 months after the 2010 GS was introduced..."
08-21-2009, 06:57 PM
#40
I would not expect so.
LS7 failures seem to fall into two categories: those brought low due to problem rocker arms produced during a certain period, now long past, and those that have had oiling-related bearing failures. IMO we now have enough data (not speculation) on the oiling failures that we know what causes it: left-hand turns over 1G for more than 4 seconds. See this thread and this thread. It's something that seems to require a race track in a particular configuraton to produce. It also looks like it is cleared up with the larger capacity dry sump introduced with the LS9 and '09 Z, which the dry sump LS3s will also get. So far as I know, and I try to follow the threads in the Z forum pretty closely, we haven't had any failures of '09s. Mine will turn 20k miles any day now, but then I don't track my car.
I don't think anyone has been able to show a pattern of failures due to the Wixom assembly process itself. I took the tour of the PBC about a week after taking delivery and I was blown away by the way the assembly is managed, measured, and recorded. Believe me, if there's a problem with the assembly process, they will know in very short order, not when engines start blowing up.
You looking to try again on a C6? I could see you in a Crystal Red Grand Sport vert! Get the Dark Titanium 3LZ interior, put a set of spyder wheels and a hood stripe on it and there ya go!
LS7 failures seem to fall into two categories: those brought low due to problem rocker arms produced during a certain period, now long past, and those that have had oiling-related bearing failures. IMO we now have enough data (not speculation) on the oiling failures that we know what causes it: left-hand turns over 1G for more than 4 seconds. See this thread and this thread. It's something that seems to require a race track in a particular configuraton to produce. It also looks like it is cleared up with the larger capacity dry sump introduced with the LS9 and '09 Z, which the dry sump LS3s will also get. So far as I know, and I try to follow the threads in the Z forum pretty closely, we haven't had any failures of '09s. Mine will turn 20k miles any day now, but then I don't track my car.
I don't think anyone has been able to show a pattern of failures due to the Wixom assembly process itself. I took the tour of the PBC about a week after taking delivery and I was blown away by the way the assembly is managed, measured, and recorded. Believe me, if there's a problem with the assembly process, they will know in very short order, not when engines start blowing up.
You looking to try again on a C6? I could see you in a Crystal Red Grand Sport vert! Get the Dark Titanium 3LZ interior, put a set of spyder wheels and a hood stripe on it and there ya go!
1. Valve spring failures. Possible batch of bad valve springs which found their way into several LSx engines of all types.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...ing-broke.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...-the-list.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...ures-poll.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...ve-spring.html
2. Rocker arm failures. Bad batch of rocker arms, seen in a handful of cars with engine build dates between 1/07 and 7/07. The cure for this, if anyone has one of these cars is to have new stock OEM valve springs and rockers installed for those who are concerned about it.
3. Oil starvation related failures. Due to either a failed oil pump, or excessive lateral acceleration of >1G for greater than 4 seconds in left handed banked turns on race tracks.
The last two you have covered and explained quite nicely, however I would add that the oil starvation issues which occured during high G lefte handed turns on race tracks, are most prevalent in cars running on race tracks using competition tires as opposes to street tires, and/or suspension, and/or brake modifications. The Z06 is capable of just under 1.3Gs on it's stock tires. Competition tires increase that capability to +1.5G. Enough to overwhelm the stock oiling system and cause an oiling system related failure.
Also, there has been one listing of an '09 engine failure which apparently came about as an oil starvation issue. Possibly due to a failed oil pump as the car had never seen a race track according to it's owner.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1571120455
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 08-21-2009 at 07:16 PM.