Tire kicking a Chevy dealer today - random thoughts...
07-18-2010, 10:11 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
With GM selling so few Vettes right now it makes sense that the ones they do sell are the more profitable ones. Not every one will be fully decked out, but the bar is been raised to GS levels.
Not sure about the Z, though. I have a feeling it is getting phased out and the GS is incroaching upwareds (in price) to the Z and also in performance.
The ZR1 is tops but just like last time it will only sell in the few hundreds in a year or two.
Maybe this is in prelude to the C7 in a few years?
Not sure about the Z, though. I have a feeling it is getting phased out and the GS is incroaching upwareds (in price) to the Z and also in performance.
The ZR1 is tops but just like last time it will only sell in the few hundreds in a year or two.
Maybe this is in prelude to the C7 in a few years?
07-19-2010, 02:38 AM
#62
Le Mans Master
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Here in Houston car dealers are mostly closed Sundays. I went out for a ride on my motorcycle this morning and stopped by a Chevy dealer. This is a dealer that stocks quite a few Corvettes and keeps most of them right in front of the main entrance, or in the showroom.
I was glad I stopped because they had five or six 2011s - including both the new orange and supersonic blue. After looking at everything they had, here are a handful of random thoughts I had...
Every 2011 they had was a Grand Sport. I think four coupes and one convertible. Every one of them was an automatic and they all had the new F55 option. The coupes listed for around $67k, and the Convertible I think was about $73k.
They had two ZR1s - which I think are both '10s, but one was inside, and the one outside did not have a window sticker.
They had NO Z06's at all. Two years ago they almost always had I'd say six Z06's out there, give or take.
The new colors both looked okay, but the SS blue is a bit boring to me, and the orange is just not a color I could do. But it was a good looking orange. I didn't realize that both colors are extra cost colors. By my accounts, more than half the Corvette colors are extra cost now.
As I rode home I couldn't help think that I may very likely never buy another new Corvette. I'm 57 years old, and like most people today I have no pension plan to retire on. I'll be retiring on my savings - which like most people has taken a major hit the past two years, as has my income (to a lesser degree - but my year end incentive has taken a very significant hit). The thought of writing a check for $30,000 to trade my car and buy a new weekend car just doesn't seem to be in the cards anymore.
It used to be that I could trade up to a newer version of what I already have every couple of years for about $10,000. But they are pushing up pricing to a point where that does not look possible. I realize the base cars have not gone up all that much, but even in this horrible economy GM keeps packaging equipment in a way that makes it hard to move up without paying a bigger premium.
For instance, there is no longer a $1600 Z51 package, you now have to pay $5500 or so for the performance version of the "base" car. Three years ago I downgraded from a convertible to a coupe largely because they packaged the $2,000 power top with the 3LT (or whatever it was called that year) option package. I realize I have not addressed moving up to a new Z06 because: a) I don't think there will be a Z06 after this year, b) there is no reason to buy a new one because the only changes are changes that add a ton of money to the price.
I am pretty good at not blaming a company for not meeting my needs/desires if what they are doing is working for them as a whole. But at 10,000 units a year rate right now, I don't think they can say that what they are doing is working either.
I'm on record as saying that the economy is the main reason for poor sales, and I stand by that comment. But I would think they would be looking for ways to minimize lost sales. Looking at a dealer lot and the least expensive car sitting there is a $67,000 coupe is not what I think the direction they should be going. Before someone corrects me, I should point out that they have two '10 coupes sitting there that list for $59,000. But the cheapest 2011's are the $67k GS's.
Just food for thought, and I'd be interested in everyone's comments on how you think the direction of their current marketing will effect your ability/desire to buy a new Corvette in the future.
I was glad I stopped because they had five or six 2011s - including both the new orange and supersonic blue. After looking at everything they had, here are a handful of random thoughts I had...
Every 2011 they had was a Grand Sport. I think four coupes and one convertible. Every one of them was an automatic and they all had the new F55 option. The coupes listed for around $67k, and the Convertible I think was about $73k.
They had two ZR1s - which I think are both '10s, but one was inside, and the one outside did not have a window sticker.
They had NO Z06's at all. Two years ago they almost always had I'd say six Z06's out there, give or take.
The new colors both looked okay, but the SS blue is a bit boring to me, and the orange is just not a color I could do. But it was a good looking orange. I didn't realize that both colors are extra cost colors. By my accounts, more than half the Corvette colors are extra cost now.
As I rode home I couldn't help think that I may very likely never buy another new Corvette. I'm 57 years old, and like most people today I have no pension plan to retire on. I'll be retiring on my savings - which like most people has taken a major hit the past two years, as has my income (to a lesser degree - but my year end incentive has taken a very significant hit). The thought of writing a check for $30,000 to trade my car and buy a new weekend car just doesn't seem to be in the cards anymore.
It used to be that I could trade up to a newer version of what I already have every couple of years for about $10,000. But they are pushing up pricing to a point where that does not look possible. I realize the base cars have not gone up all that much, but even in this horrible economy GM keeps packaging equipment in a way that makes it hard to move up without paying a bigger premium.
For instance, there is no longer a $1600 Z51 package, you now have to pay $5500 or so for the performance version of the "base" car. Three years ago I downgraded from a convertible to a coupe largely because they packaged the $2,000 power top with the 3LT (or whatever it was called that year) option package. I realize I have not addressed moving up to a new Z06 because: a) I don't think there will be a Z06 after this year, b) there is no reason to buy a new one because the only changes are changes that add a ton of money to the price.
I am pretty good at not blaming a company for not meeting my needs/desires if what they are doing is working for them as a whole. But at 10,000 units a year rate right now, I don't think they can say that what they are doing is working either.
I'm on record as saying that the economy is the main reason for poor sales, and I stand by that comment. But I would think they would be looking for ways to minimize lost sales. Looking at a dealer lot and the least expensive car sitting there is a $67,000 coupe is not what I think the direction they should be going. Before someone corrects me, I should point out that they have two '10 coupes sitting there that list for $59,000. But the cheapest 2011's are the $67k GS's.
Just food for thought, and I'd be interested in everyone's comments on how you think the direction of their current marketing will effect your ability/desire to buy a new Corvette in the future.
If I were buying a C6 today, I'd buy this, a 2010 Torch Red/Ebony 1LT Package, Manual, Comp Gray Wheels, Dual Mode Exhaust, MSRP $57,310 Blow Out Price $47,500. The MSRP on this car is $7,800 more than mine was, but the price is only $3,900 more than the GMS + $750 deal that I got on mine 2.5 years ago.
When I bought my '08 Vette I thought I was buying a DD, and not just a weekend toy, but that's what it turned out to be for me. I ended up buying a Silverado Ext. Cab as my DD months later, and I use the Vette on the weekends, and for long trips. At the rate I use it, my '08 should last me a very long time. I can't imagine buying another C6 to replace it, why would I?
07-19-2010, 04:06 AM
#63
Race Director
A new Corvette, purchased right, can still be a decent deal. It all depends on how you equipment it. The Z51 coupe has been replaced by the GS coupe, and NPP ($1,195) is a must, but that's it. There isn't any stripped C6, a 1LT has everything that I'd ever want, but if a buyer does want a 2, 3, or 4LT, it's going to add less than $1,195-$7,705 to the cost.
If I were buying a C6 today, I'd buy this, a 2010 Torch Red/Ebony 1LT Package, Manual, Comp Gray Wheels, Dual Mode Exhaust, MSRP $57,310 Blow Out Price $47,500. The MSRP on this car is $7,800 more than mine was, but the price is only $3,900 more than the GMS + $750 deal that I got on mine 2.5 years ago.
When I bought my '08 Vette I thought I was buying a DD, and not just a weekend toy, but that's what it turned out to be for me. I ended up buying a Silverado Ext. Cab as my DD months later, and I use the Vette on the weekends, and for long trips. At the rate I use it, my '08 should last me a very long time. I can't imagine buying another C6 to replace it, why would I?
If I were buying a C6 today, I'd buy this, a 2010 Torch Red/Ebony 1LT Package, Manual, Comp Gray Wheels, Dual Mode Exhaust, MSRP $57,310 Blow Out Price $47,500. The MSRP on this car is $7,800 more than mine was, but the price is only $3,900 more than the GMS + $750 deal that I got on mine 2.5 years ago.
When I bought my '08 Vette I thought I was buying a DD, and not just a weekend toy, but that's what it turned out to be for me. I ended up buying a Silverado Ext. Cab as my DD months later, and I use the Vette on the weekends, and for long trips. At the rate I use it, my '08 should last me a very long time. I can't imagine buying another C6 to replace it, why would I?
Without a complete re-do the only thing imo GM can offer now is make more and more options standard. HUD should be standard along with all options from the 2LT.....1LT should be banished and 2LT should be the new "base" interior.
In any case, I've been saying Corvette is getting too darn expensive for a couple years now. They need to realize the happy market for Corvette is 42-55k......55k is the high end with all top of the line options (4LT) included. GM needs to return to the days of C5/C5vert/C5Z pricing, especially given the economic climate which will linger for years to come.
07-19-2010, 05:11 AM
#64
Le Mans Master
This is the problem.......the Grand Sport/base C6 are only priced right when "stripped" interior wise. This just doesn't fly today. The C6 got a "pass" on the interior materials, seats, NAV, steering wheel, etc because it offered such a great performance value back in 2004/2005. Now that it's 2010 and Mustangs can nearly match LS3 Corvettes in acceleration, Nissan GTR's outlap ZR1/Z06's, the $25-$35 Camaro is back......Corvette has more competiton but hasn't improved in overall quality while getting more expensive.
Without a complete re-do the only thing imo GM can offer now is make more and more options standard. HUD should be standard along with all options from the 2LT.....1LT should be banished and 2LT should be the new "base" interior.
In any case, I've been saying Corvette is getting too darn expensive for a couple years now. They need to realize the happy market for Corvette is 42-55k......55k is the high end with all top of the line options (4LT) included. GM needs to return to the days of C5/C5vert/C5Z pricing, especially given the economic climate which will linger for years to come.
Without a complete re-do the only thing imo GM can offer now is make more and more options standard. HUD should be standard along with all options from the 2LT.....1LT should be banished and 2LT should be the new "base" interior.
In any case, I've been saying Corvette is getting too darn expensive for a couple years now. They need to realize the happy market for Corvette is 42-55k......55k is the high end with all top of the line options (4LT) included. GM needs to return to the days of C5/C5vert/C5Z pricing, especially given the economic climate which will linger for years to come.
This is on a perfect track. In real life, there are expansion joints, bumps, etc. THe mustang will have infinitely more trouble with these than a car with IRS.
Another thing to note, is that the mustang is forced induction or bust, if you are modding it. NA mods are only so good on that car. WIth the LS3, a cam and full exhaust still do wonders.
Also, the 'vette is lighter.
Further, look at the last "premium" GT's. As I recall from my time working for Ford, a VERY nicely equipped one ran about 32 out the door. A nicely equipped 'vette was around 52. Now you are looking at low 40's for the GT and low 60's for the 'vette.
The 'vette has indeed kept pace. Further, the LS1 C5 outperformed the '05 GT by about the same margin that the LS3 outpeformes the 5.0. About half a second and 3-5mph trap.
The C5's I ran, I was dead=with in my WS6. The GT's I ran, I beat by about 2 cars 60-110 or so.
The only thing wrong with the equation is that the 'vette's interior sucks more than it did in 2004 (my opinion based on a friend's '04Z and the C6 3LT's I have looked at), and the GT's interior is insanely nicer than it was in 2004.
07-19-2010, 05:48 AM
#65
Race Director
I did buy another Challenger SRT8 in B5 blue this weekend. Much better deal and the car is still as much fun as the Vette and about $25K less expensive.
Anyone who knows me knows I'm a Vette guy at heart but GM has all but run me off.
07-19-2010, 08:18 AM
#66
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Yeah 100K per year is a lot where I live. Median income for our county is 42k/year a little below national average. I have family in Chicago where 2 years ago they paid $470K for a 1700 sq foot condo with one parking spot in the bad part of town. Where I live that is a 125k-150k purchase. If you live in an expensive part of the country, taxes and costs of housing and living can eat up 3 times as much as in other parts of the country.
07-19-2010, 08:24 AM
#67
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I have really never been compelled to pay the price for a new Vette and have always purchased a sweet ride, several years old at half the price or less. You know how most people really baby Vettes and I have yet to get a bad one - this far. I have paid cash and sold the prior Vette at a fair market price pretty quickly. That leaves me spare change for the Harley's I love to ride and other hobbies. I don't think I would buy new, even if I had the money, as I don't feel comfortable draining resources to that extent. I know this doesn't help GM immediately on the front end, and as the supply of used current Vettes declines - their pricing may become more than I care to spend in the future.
