LBear

It is GM lawyer talk. That is what the factory manual is basically stating. It is ambiguous and they are trying to cover their a** both ways. If you run 87 and experience engine detonation, they will try and claim you should have ran 91 because that is what the factory manual says to run if you experience detonation.

Just like the part in the manual that tells you to run 1 quart OVER full if you track the car, and then drain the oil once you are done, but then it says that tracking the car can VOID your warranty. Yet, the guys here on the forum that had engines seize because of oiling issues, GM tells them they should NOT have been tracking their car because the manual says tracking your car will void your warranty.



It's all just GM BS and lawyers trying to find "loop holes" by playing with verbiage. That is what lawyers do. Find loop holes so the manufacturer can get out of paying up $$$.

vettedoogie

It doesn't say that. They say you can run 87 and above. What is ambiguous about this...

LBear

Here are the facts. GM HAS denied warranty repair on the LS engine due to running 87 octane as the engine detonated and blew out a ring land. Do a search on the forum. Either it was here on this forum or the Digital C forum. But it happened.

Are you going to sue GM? They have more money and lawyers than you will ever have.

Per the factory manual regarding warranty issues:

"Poor fuel quality or incorrect fuel may cause driveability problems such as hesitation, lack of power, stall or no start. Damage from poor fuel quality, water contamination, incorrect gasoline may not be covered."

Is that ambiguous enough?

5 out of 5 lawyers say, YES. That is why GM has the owners manuals verbiage done & looked over by at least a dozen lawyers.

vettedoogie

You always talk big but never put the actual facts up.
One supposed incidence of this? Big deal.

You think the lawyers came up with 87 octane number?
Since you don't know what you are talking about I will enlighten you...EVERY owners manual ever developed goes through lawyers before published...but they get numbers like these from the engineers. They'd be stupid not to.

LBear

Plus you are NOT being complete because PRIOR to the part you quoted, GM stated this:

"...use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 91 or higher. You can also use regular unleaded gasoline rated at 87 or higher, but your vehicles acceleration could be slightly reduced, and you might notice a slight audible knocking noise, commonly referred to as spark knock." (emphasis in bold is mine)

Notice it says "knocking noise". Not singular, "knock", but a plural, "knocking". There goes the other forum members knock sensor The engine can still have numerous knocking/detonating. While the knock sensor cannot stop all of it, it will try, but in the meantime your engine is getting destroyed.

Notice it emphasizes the use of 91 octane and is the PRIMARY gas that GM recommends. Then it says you "can" use 87 "BUT" the engine can experience "knocking. " Remember it is NOT a "knock" or a one time experience, but KNOCKING. It also states that the noise is "audible" so when you tell the service writer that your detonated engine was not audible, GM will have 50 lawyers that say otherwise.

I am not a lawyer but I just destroyed you and denied your warranty claim

LBear

Remember, the forums here represent 5% of the actual real world problems. So take what happens here in regards to engine problems, issues, etc. and do the math.

I never said that, that is a STRAWMAN you, Doogie Howser came up with.



Again, another strawman. I never said that ONLY GM has lawyers review the owners manuals. We were talking about C6's, LS engines and the GM owners manual, so logically it was about GM but never did I claim that the owners manual and lawyers were used by GM only and no other car manufacturer did the same.

vettedoogie

You have put in some different text than I did. Read the quote I put in...
Read it 2-5 times and you may understand what it says.

vettedoogie

Your brain is 5% of everyone's here.

v8capt

In Florida we have 93, but I would give that up to not have Ethanol stuffed down our throats.
Capt Bob

JoesC5

I say let those who want to run 87 octane, do so, and if they have any problems, they will have to deal with it. I'll continue to run 94 octane, but never, ever, anything lower then 91, in my Z06. That way I know that I will never experience any problems from using inferior gas. I could really care less what you run in your car, and you should shut up about what I run in my car.

Gearhead Jim

Since that sounds directly contrary to what the manual says, we'd like a link or other reference so we can all read it.

We're looking for verifyable incident of an unmodded and untuned LS2/LS3 engine that suffered damage from running 87 octane, and GM denied the warranty coverage.

You get no points if it was an LS7 or LS9, had mods, a tune, or other circumstances that would cause GM to deny the warranty regardless of fuel used.

vettedoogie

I'd be amazed if someone can tell me it happened because of 87 OCTANE ONLY. Bad or contaminated gas, sure.

grum

May I be excused? I need to go fill my gasoline tank. :-))

Thanks everyone for your input.

Paul

Aquaholic21

Toluene - it's 114 octane and is the main ingredient of gasoline already. You can pick it up at a paint store. Just do the math to figure out how much you need to reach your goal octane.

brooklync5

Bandicoot

I run what the manual says, 91 Octane on my LS3.