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Old Dec 11, 2010 | 05:08 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by HOXXOH
I believe the so-called scoop (NACA ducts are not high pressure nor do they actually scoop air from the airstream) is functional, but only to a very minor degree. It certainly does not decrease aero-dynamic drag and considering the size relationship between the inlet and exit holes, it even increases drag beyond what properly sized exit holes would.
Actually the so-called scoop duct is a high pressure area. It also gives downforce to the front of the car. Being a high pressure zone, if you provide openings for the air to flow through, it will.

See the top CFD image that shows the air flow and pressure over the C6R ZR1. The red color shows the high pressure areas on the body.

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010...-c6-r-gt2.aspx
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Old Dec 11, 2010 | 08:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by AFVETTE
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...naca-duct.html

If folks don't believe GM or one of our most knowledgeable vendors and photo's there is nothing else we can say.

Tom
Tom

Im with you ...............IT COOLS THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 08:09 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5
What does it take to convince you? How about a GM press release for the 2006 Z06.

"Unique front fascia incorporating a larger grille, cold-air scoop and lower air splitter"

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/spec...6z06press.html

"A cold air scoop in front of the hood that integrates an air inlet system for the engine"
They forgot the word "Compartment". Originally this fasia was ZO6 specific, as the LS7 and now especially the LS9 produces more heat as the byproduct of more power.That is why they enlarged the side vents to extract the hotter air under the hood in larger volumes.Much more heat than the LS2/3 produces.Not a GS basher, but I believe this is a less efficient system on this application due to the restictive gill design and less powerful motor.(examine the side vent sizing on the narrow bodies).
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 08:30 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by HOXXOH
I believe the so-called scoop (NACA ducts are not high pressure nor do they actually scoop air from the airstream) is functional, but only to a very minor degree. It certainly does not decrease aero-dynamic drag and considering the size relationship between the inlet and exit holes, it even increases drag beyond what properly sized exit holes would.
Think about this.What would produce more drag in the front of a vehicle ? The surface area of a mostly closed off "scoop" air inlet vent or "properly" opened holes in the vent allowing unwanted amounts of air entering the engine compartment creating lift due to turbulance acting on the underside of the hood and drag(the engine compartment acting as a parachute.
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 08:35 AM
  #45  
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Of course the scoop is functional. Anyone with half a brain can see that it's functional. Good grief !!!














it's function is to look kool!!
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 08:44 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by HANNY
looking at that photo tells me those are for water to drain out more then any engine management gains. (i could see driving along in winter and that area freezing up if left plugged)
Only way to fully solve the argument is to do a dyno run stock and then a dyno run with them taped up,,,,,,if one is thinking those small vents helps perfomance that much so be it but looking at the photo i would say very very very very little. IMOP If it is a suc ha HUGE GAIN then cut that whole area out and be even more
Again for ambient air transfer not for performance per say.
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 09:05 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by EuroRod
Of course the scoop is functional. Anyone with half a brain can see that it's functional. Good grief !!!














it's function is to look kool!!
My guess that you do not own either Z car was correct. Part of owning a Z is the research involved prior to the $80K purchase.Some of us have done that research and definately do not listen to hype of any kind from anyone.What we do is weed out the from the facts then enter that "common sense factor that can be so uncommon". Some of us have education in vehicle mechanics and design. Some of us have mechanical engineering backgrounds.I tend to listen to what they have to say as well as myself on matters such as these.
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 09:57 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by QUAKEJAKE
My guess that you do not own either Z car was correct. Part of owning a Z is the research involved prior to the $80K purchase.Some of us have done that research and definately do not listen to hype of any kind from anyone.What we do is weed out the from the facts then enter that "common sense factor that can be so uncommon". Some of us have education in vehicle mechanics and design. Some of us have mechanical engineering backgrounds.I tend to listen to what they have to say as well as myself on matters such as these.
Some of us have common sense and aren't swayed by GM's Adspeak. GM's definition of function is obviously different than mine. The degree of function that a couple of tiny holes in a block off plate should be compared to the degree of function that a Vararam or a Lingenfelter CAI would give. Maybe 100% function for the Vararam and Lingenfelter and 5% function to the Z06 scoop? GM is right, the scoop is "functional" if 5% of a possible 100% = functional.

Engineers don't run GM, Advertising and Accountants have more power. Notice how the GM "statements" about the scoop are all general and vague? No specific air flow increase or temperature drops? Funny how an NPP exhaust is worth 6 HP and a scoop in the bumper cover is "functional".

Does anybody believe that a GM Engineer or Management Executive is going to say anything negative about anything GM does?
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 10:39 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by haljensen
Engineers don't run GM, Advertising and Accountants have more power. Notice how the GM "statements" about the scoop are all general and vague? No specific air flow increase or temperature drops? Funny how an NPP exhaust is worth 6 HP and a scoop in the bumper cover is "functional".

Does anybody believe that a GM Engineer or Management Executive is going to say anything negative about anything GM does?
Man than how did they slip all this by the bean counters:

•LS7 7.0-liter/427-cubic-inch Gen IV V-8 with lightweight reciprocating components
•505 horsepower (373 kw) at 6200 rpm
•475 lb.-ft. of torque (657 Nm) at 4800 rpm
•7000 rpm redline
•Titanium connecting rods and intake valves
•Dry-sump engine lubrication system
•Engine hand-built at GM’s new Performance Build Center
•Aluminum body structure with one-piece hydroformed perimeter rails frame and magnesium front cradle
•Fixed roof design optimizes body rigidity and aerodynamics
•Carbon-fiber composite front fenders and front wheelhouses
•Unique front fascia incorporating a larger grille, cold-air scoop and lower air splitter
•Wide-body rear fenders and a unique rear spoiler incorporated with the CHMSL
•Huge 14-inch (355-mm) cross-drilled front disc brakes with six-piston calipers and 13.4-inch (340-mm) cross-drilled rear rotors with four-piston calipers
•18 x 9.5-inch front wheels with 275/35ZR18 tires and 19 x 12-inch rear wheels with 325/30ZR19 tires
•3-inch-diameter exhaust with bi-mode mufflers and larger polished stainless steel tips
•Engine, transmission and differential oil coolers; and steering cooler
•Rear-mounted battery to improve weight distribution
•Unique interior features including revised gauge cluster and lightweight two-tone seats with more aggressive bolsters
•Curb weight of 3130 pounds / 1419.7 kg (estimated)
•3 inches (76.2 mm) wider than other Corvette models
•Vehicle developed simultaneously with C6-R racecar.
•Unique cylinder block casting with large, 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in cylinder liners
•Forged steel main bearing caps
•Forged steel crankshaft
•Titanium connecting rods with 101.6-mm stroke
•Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
•11.0:1 compression
•Dry-sump oiling system
•Camshaft with .591-inch lift
•Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
•Titanium pushrods and valve springs
•Low-restriction air intake system
•Hydroformed exhaust headers with unique “quad flow” collector flanges.
•A wide front fascia with a large, forward-facing grille opening, a splitter along the bottom and “Gurney lips” along the sides to provide aerodynamic downforce
A cold air scoop in front of the hood that integrates an air inlet system for the engine
•The trailing edge of the front wheel opening is radiused to achieve improved drag, but protects the body finish with a tough molding, and a large air extractor is located behind the wheel
•A fixed-roof body style optimizes body rigidity and aerodynamics
•Wider rear fenders with flares cover the massive rear tires and a brake cooling scoop in front of the wheels visually balances the fender extractor
•A tall rear spoiler houses the CHMSL on the top of the rear fascia
•10-spoke wheels
•Four larger stainless steel exhaust outlets
•New-design Z06 badging on the front fenders

Seems to me using your argument the 2005 LS2 Corvette is all Corvette enthusiasts ever needed because all this is just advertising. Maybe we should all be driving the in-line BlueFlame with 2-speed auto transmission.

Or maybe it’s because some folks who don't one a Z06/ZR1 just want to belittle the engineering and owners.

Tom
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 11:08 AM
  #50  
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ME thinks there are some bruised egos in here.

Fine, it's functional! There, is that better.








It's just totally unmeasurable as to the gains of the functionality.


Here's an idea. GO to the drag strip. Run the car with the holes in the "Functional Air Scoop" plugged. Run it 3 times and take the best of the 3. Let it sit, cool, and then open the plugged scoop to release all of that air scooping power and run it 3 times and take the best of the 3. Compare and report.

On a happier note, Merry Christmas!!

Elmer
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 12:48 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by AFVETTE
Man than how did they slip all this by the bean counters:

•LS7 7.0-liter/427-cubic-inch Gen IV V-8 with lightweight reciprocating components


•Unique front fascia incorporating a larger grille, cold-air scoop and lower air splitter

A cold air scoop in front of the hood that integrates an air inlet system for the engine
Tom
I singled out 3 lines from your long list of Z06 features as examples of GM Adspeak.

It's not a 427 cu. in. except in GM Advertizings mind. Do the math, it's a 428.4 cu. in. displacement by any measurement. 427 sounds better for Chevy, wasn't the 428 a Ford CJ engine?

"cold air scoop"? Adspeak again since the few tiny holes in the scoop block off plate do admit ambient air. Not enough air to make any difference in performance but they do admit some ambient air.

"air inlet system for the engine". More Adspeak, same reasons as above.

I'm not belittling the Z06, it's engineers or it's owners but I do wish the Execs and Advertizing Dept. were more honest.
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 01:13 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by eboggs_jkvl
ME thinks there are some bruised egos in here. Fine, it's functional! There, is that better.








It's just totally unmeasurable as to the gains of the functionality.


Here's an idea. GO to the drag strip. Run the car with the holes in the "Functional Air Scoop" plugged. Run it 3 times and take the best of the 3. Let it sit, cool, and then open the plugged scoop to release all of that air scooping power and run it 3 times and take the best of the 3. Compare and report.

On a happier note, Merry Christmas!!

Elmer


All we need now is QS or whatever his new member name is and we are set.


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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 01:32 PM
  #53  
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Possibly the worst thread of 2010!
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JoesC5
Actually the so-called scoop duct is a high pressure area. It also gives downforce to the front of the car. Being a high pressure zone, if you provide openings for the air to flow through, it will.

See the top CFD image that shows the air flow and pressure over the C6R ZR1. The red color shows the high pressure areas on the body.

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010...-c6-r-gt2.aspx
Nice picture there that illustrates when there is no easy place for the air to go, it creates pressure. See how the nose right next to the "scoop" is not a high pressure area. Notice a few photos later that the holes in the high pressure area of the mirror vent into the car and the correctly shaped vent and relief hole in the window that are in a low pressure area.

You can punch a small hole in the bottom of a paper cup and hang it out the window and get some air to flow through the hole, but it'll still have lots of pressure. Increase the hole size and it'll reduce the pressure, but never to zero nor will the turbulence be eliminated.

Originally Posted by QUAKEJAKE
Think about this.What would produce more drag in the front of a vehicle ? The surface area of a mostly closed off "scoop" air inlet vent or "properly" opened holes in the vent allowing unwanted amounts of air entering the engine compartment creating lift due to turbulance acting on the underside of the hood and drag(the engine compartment acting as a parachute.
The fender vents suck out far more air than the "scoop" would ever let in even if the scoop was wide open, so lift and drag are not factors. Actually some underhood turbulance is a good thing because it provides better cooling by eliminating hot spots. Notice the hood opening photo in the aforementioned link that relieves the nose pressure through the radiator without creating higher pressure (and temperatures) under the hood/car.

The vents on NASCAR cars are routinely taped off during qualifying for better aerodynamics and removed for the race to allow cool air for the driver.
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Old Dec 12, 2010 | 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HOXXOH
Nice picture there that illustrates when there is no easy place for the air to go, it creates pressure. See how the nose right next to the "scoop" is not a high pressure area. Notice a few photos later that the holes in the high pressure area of the mirror vent into the car and the correctly shaped vent and relief hole in the window that are in a low pressure area.

You can punch a small hole in the bottom of a paper cup and hang it out the window and get some air to flow through the hole, but it'll still have lots of pressure. Increase the hole size and it'll reduce the pressure, but never to zero nor will the turbulence be eliminated.



The fender vents suck out far more air than the "scoop" would ever let in even if the scoop was wide open, so lift and drag are not factors. Actually some underhood turbulance is a good thing because it provides better cooling by eliminating hot spots. Notice the hood opening photo in the aforementioned link that relieves the nose pressure through the radiator without creating higher pressure (and temperatures) under the hood/car.

The vents on NASCAR cars are routinely taped off during qualifying for better aerodynamics and removed for the race to allow cool air for the driver.
You select high pressure zones to have openings because that is where you will have some force to move the air. Go back to the late sixties when hood scoops were the rage. Chevy had the cowl induction hood, not a big hood scoop. The high pressure zone at the base of the windshield provided a positive pressure to supply air to the engine. You bring up NASCAR. Look at their intake air filter design and you will see that they also pick up air at the base of the windshield, because it is a high pressure zone, even with the huge opening at the cowl to supply 850 horses under the hood.

The high pressure zone at the front bumper scoop on the Z06/ZR1/GS is a high pressure zone and will feed air to the engine air breather compartment with some degree of positive pressure.

Look at the intakes for ducts that supply air to the front brakes. They are flush openings mounted under the front bumper. They do not scoop air. So, how do they work? There is a high pressure zone under the front of the car(that causes lift) and the air is forced to flow into the openings. Just shows you that big scoops sticking out in the air flow are not necessary to have a positive air flow.

Look at the two small openings in the front splitter on the Z06 below the fog lamps. They are there, in the high pressure zone at the front of the car, to allow air to enter below the front bumper in order to have a high pressure zone to feed the front brake ducts, yet the remainder of the front splitter is closed.

Look at where the air intake is located to supply air to the interior of your car. It's at the base of the windshield, in that high pressure area. When you open the cars interior vents you get a positive flow of air, and no huge scoop sticking up to block your view is needed, only an opening at the base of the windshield, in the high pressure zone.

Last edited by JoesC5; Dec 12, 2010 at 03:45 PM.
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Old Dec 13, 2010 | 05:16 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by haljensen
I singled out 3 lines from your long list of Z06 features as examples of GM Adspeak.

It's not a 427 cu. in. except in GM Advertizings mind. Do the math, it's a 428.4 cu. in. displacement by any measurement. 427 sounds better for Chevy, wasn't the 428 a Ford CJ engine?

"cold air scoop"? Adspeak again since the few tiny holes in the scoop block off plate do admit ambient air. Not enough air to make any difference in performance but they do admit some ambient air.

"air inlet system for the engine". More Adspeak, same reasons as above.

I'm not belittling the Z06, it's engineers or it's owners but I do wish the Execs and Advertizing Dept. were more honest.
I understand your position. I believe you are basing your argument on two things: it is not direct ram air to the filter; and its nothing but "GM adspeak". I believe many have already agreed it is not there to provide direct ram air but does flow measureable air. As for GM adspeak, none of the research I have done comes from GM. I recommend you look at the research done by others on this. It has been looked at carefully by Halltech and many others. Its all available on the internet.
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Old Dec 13, 2010 | 08:38 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by haljensen
Some of us have common sense and aren't swayed by GM's Adspeak. GM's definition of function is obviously different than mine. The degree of function that a couple of tiny holes in a block off plate should be compared to the degree of function that a Vararam or a Lingenfelter CAI would give. Maybe 100% function for the Vararam and Lingenfelter and 5% function to the Z06 scoop? GM is right, the scoop is "functional" if 5% of a possible 100% = functional.

Engineers don't run GM, Advertising and Accountants have more power. Notice how the GM "statements" about the scoop are all general and vague? No specific air flow increase or temperature drops? Funny how an NPP exhaust is worth 6 HP and a scoop in the bumper cover is "functional".

Does anybody believe that a GM Engineer or Management Executive is going to say anything negative about anything GM does?
Considering the Vararam's history of total crap quality and increased possibility of hydrolock, I'll stick to my factory provided scoop which lets in a little cooler air.

The factory has to weigh certain options, having an air scoop like the Vararam is something that would never pass quality and reliability testing.
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Old Dec 13, 2010 | 08:56 AM
  #58  
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just take your hoods off!












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