Car show; help to understand
06-12-2011, 09:01 PM
#41
Race Director
No direspect intended but I don't give a stock ZR1 any more look than any other stock car. We have several that show up and to be honest most people don't know the difference between any of them. The highly modified cars get the most action.
06-12-2011, 09:03 PM
#42
Safety Car
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2023 C7 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods)
A lot depends on the show and how well its organizers run it. Entrant voting shows are poor and not worth attending. Same with spectator voting. Not worth the gasoline to get into the show if you lived next door to it. The first thing a judged show has to have is a set of rules that are available to all entrants. The second thing they need is a judging sheet made out for those rules. The third thing they need is a group of judges trained in how to judge a car. Judging isn't easy and you can't just pick a couple of local body shop and detailing guys since they know squat about judging a car. When the judges are done judging the car they should review the judging sheets with the owner and explain why they made any points deductions. This should be done before judging the next car.
Most judged shows have criteria for cleanliness. Then they have classifications for cars that are driven on a regular basis Vs trailer queens so they are broken into two groups, one usually called Wash & Show and the other Concours or similar type of name. Wash and Show classes usually don't judge the engine compartment. Cleanliness rules and modifications don't. In fact mods can seriously hurt the score if they highlight areas that were not cleaned properly. Chrome that has smudges or finger prints on it will get you a serious deduction while the same spot in stock flat black will not show the smudges or finger prints. Judges usually like to walk up to a car that is closed. Hood, doors and windows. This lets them see the body lines and determine if something is not lined up correctly. It also lets them see whether the side windows are clean. Then they want the owner to open the car so they can look inside and see how well it has been cleaned. Floor mats are one place to look under. They make it easy for the owner to forget to clean under them. Best thing to do is to leave them home. Inspecting the base of the windshield for dirt and smears is another area, plus look for dust in the defroster outlet. And so on. Very nit picky. One place a lot of C4 owners got nailed was around the rear license plate. The black strip around the middle of the car ended at the plate. There were two small spots, one above and one below the strip that would get very dirty. Only way to clean them was with a cue tip. Easily a full point deduction since if not cleaned they were really dirty. Same goes for the engine compartment, then the wheel wells and wheels. Tire tread usually wasn't judged but excessive tire shine would get a deduction from me. New tires don't shine.
I was at a concours where two trailered Bloomington Gold and NCRS Top Flight cars were competing against each other for a $1000 first prize. The judging got down to the point the judges had the owners jack up the cars and they inspected the frames. The second place car's drive shaft was dustier than the winner's.
Competing in good shows is very hard work and you just don't drive up and say my car has lots of mods and should win.
Bill
Most judged shows have criteria for cleanliness. Then they have classifications for cars that are driven on a regular basis Vs trailer queens so they are broken into two groups, one usually called Wash & Show and the other Concours or similar type of name. Wash and Show classes usually don't judge the engine compartment. Cleanliness rules and modifications don't. In fact mods can seriously hurt the score if they highlight areas that were not cleaned properly. Chrome that has smudges or finger prints on it will get you a serious deduction while the same spot in stock flat black will not show the smudges or finger prints. Judges usually like to walk up to a car that is closed. Hood, doors and windows. This lets them see the body lines and determine if something is not lined up correctly. It also lets them see whether the side windows are clean. Then they want the owner to open the car so they can look inside and see how well it has been cleaned. Floor mats are one place to look under. They make it easy for the owner to forget to clean under them. Best thing to do is to leave them home. Inspecting the base of the windshield for dirt and smears is another area, plus look for dust in the defroster outlet. And so on. Very nit picky. One place a lot of C4 owners got nailed was around the rear license plate. The black strip around the middle of the car ended at the plate. There were two small spots, one above and one below the strip that would get very dirty. Only way to clean them was with a cue tip. Easily a full point deduction since if not cleaned they were really dirty. Same goes for the engine compartment, then the wheel wells and wheels. Tire tread usually wasn't judged but excessive tire shine would get a deduction from me. New tires don't shine.
I was at a concours where two trailered Bloomington Gold and NCRS Top Flight cars were competing against each other for a $1000 first prize. The judging got down to the point the judges had the owners jack up the cars and they inspected the frames. The second place car's drive shaft was dustier than the winner's.
Competing in good shows is very hard work and you just don't drive up and say my car has lots of mods and should win.
Bill
06-12-2011, 09:10 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Apr 2011
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I enjoy looking at highly costomized cars, so I go to car shows for the atmosphere, walk around for a few hours and go home...I've built some show quality auto back in my day, and know the level of customizing that is needed to bring home a simple award, some shows are set for " everyone gets a trophy day" but I do not enter shows anymore, it's more fun, at least for me, to see others and leave when I had enough..and just enjoy the complexity and even the oddball customizers in this world...
06-12-2011, 09:12 PM
#44
Team Owner
06-12-2011, 10:34 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
I can't complain...I gotta 3rd place in C5 modified.
06-12-2011, 10:39 PM
#46
06-13-2011, 12:12 AM
#47
Instructor
About six years ago I went to a show where they put all two seaters together 1960-1982. I took 2nd to a AC Corbra replica that was only two years old at the most. That car should not have been in that class. That was the last one for me, now I do go to the local super cruse every month and hang out with my friends.
Last edited by vetteman1981; 06-13-2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason: correction
06-14-2011, 12:21 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
I do not mean this to be disrespectful at all. As others have said, at a car event the ZR1 doesn't get much more looks than any other Vette. Maybe at an "all Corvette" show it would, but not at an open event, not from what I have seen because it isn't that much different looking than any other widebody to the general public.
06-14-2011, 12:29 PM
#49
Safety Car
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These guys want the trophies, you can go to a car show and say "I don't want to be judged". 
I nice guy in the ZR1 section just won a 7 foot trophy for his show room stock ZR1 that had a different rear spoiler and blackouts. It is a nice factory stock car, but there is no way in hell it should take a trophy away from someone who spent a ton of money, and hands on work to modify or restore his car etc. Anybody can wash and shine a stock vehicle. I say, be the better person and say "I am here to support the show. but please do not judge my car." Just my thoughts. 
06-14-2011, 01:47 PM
#51
Team Owner
Negative
06-14-2011, 01:54 PM
#52
Melting Slicks
The only shows I've seriously entered in the last 10 years are Bloomington Gold and NCRS events. The cars are judged against a standard; not extreme cleanliness, chrome mods, custom paint, etc. There is a place for that type of show, but I've "been there, done that" and now any local shows I enter are strictly for providing club support. Much more relaxing as well when I can just do a spray detailer job on the car and drive to the show, not worrying about tire shine, window smudges, etc. I try to keep my cars in basically show condition, but don't need the hassle of proving it at a local spectator judged event where it doesn't have a chance at winning anyway as the custom/heavily modded ones or pre-'63's are the crowd favorite. Not sour grapes, just the reality of it, and I can enjoy looking at cars/socializing more or less on my terms.
06-14-2011, 01:56 PM
#53
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The ZR1 gets mobbed at the shows I have had it at, not that the Grand Sport does not attract attention too The people at the show knew exactly what it was and the difference between it and the other C6s/HP etc
I could care less about trophies, most of the things here are who can stuff the ballot box for the local club. I go to have fun and hang out with other people who enjoy carZ
06-14-2011, 02:44 PM
#54
Tech Contributor
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This is how it should be done. These sound like the rules we use, which are NCCC rules. I have been in many of these and have helped organize and judge them since the early 90s. It is a ton of work to do these shows but people generally appreciate the shows. Sadly these well run shows are harder to put on because of the slow economy. We try to pay for all the trophies with sponsorships but it is getting hard to find willing sponsers. Usually we divide the proceeds with a charity. If you would like to learn more just google NCCC and you can see that there are organizations out there who govern some of the better shows.
I won three Wash and Show Best of Shows with my 86 and I was driving it, autocrossing it and tracking it the last couple of years. Took right around 40 hours to prep for the show. After doing that show for 10 years me and my kids could walk up to any car and point out 3 to 5 things wrong with it before looking hard.
That was when show's were fun. Now nobody wants to be competed against. They don't want to work hard to win they want it handed to them because they spent some money. Needless to say I don't do shows anymore.
Bill
