Will GM ever..........?
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,168
Likes: 3
From: Dyer IN
Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: Arlington Texas
Chevrolet has been building DOHC 4-valve small displacement engines since 1975 (Cosworth Twin Cam Vega). They built the '90-'95 ZR1, too. It is time they used that expertise. -Clark
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 943
Likes: 159
From: Brighton Mi
GM got it right with the C6 in a lot of ways. Everyone can discuss what is new or more exotic, but when the time comes to put your $$ down, if it costs more you will not necessarily like what you have asked for.
The power levels and performance we get with the current setup is fantastic. And it gets great gas mileage, too. What's not to like?
The power levels and performance we get with the current setup is fantastic. And it gets great gas mileage, too. What's not to like?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 943
Likes: 159
From: Brighton Mi
Boy, is that true. But, I would like to see a five liter DOHC 32 valve Corvette engine that puts out 450hp. With variable valve timing, it should not give up any low rpm thrust to the OHV (push-rod) LS3 engine.
Chevrolet has been building DOHC 4-valve small displacement engines since 1975 (Cosworth Twin Cam Vega). They built the '90-'95 ZR1, too. It is time they used that expertise. -Clark
Chevrolet has been building DOHC 4-valve small displacement engines since 1975 (Cosworth Twin Cam Vega). They built the '90-'95 ZR1, too. It is time they used that expertise. -Clark
But we have that already with the 3 different engine options already. 638 HP is ridiculous for the street...
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 1,328
From: Houston Tx
GM did not design either of those engines. Cosworth did the Vega engine and Lotus did the original 1990's ZR1 engine. The Cosworth/Vega was disastrously unreliable. GM didn't even build the original ZR1 engine, Mercury Marine did it for them. GM's main claim to fame in the DOHC area is the Cadillac Northstar engine. It was good, but expensive to build, and heaven help you if you ever had to tear one down for major maintenance. Their other DOHC engine, the "Quad-4" used in various compacts, was OK, but nothing special. I'd be a lot more comfortable with a derivative of the current small block, with less displacement, and twin turbos.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 113
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From: Chesapeake Virginia
Once the Baby Boomers start fading from the Corvette scene, I'm sure the Corvette architecture/platform will change drastically.
I work with far too many 20 and 30 something’s that just don't get the current Corvette. The big rumbling V8 escapes them. To them it's a bunch of old folks clinging to the fifties and sixties while they listen to the Oldies.
I'd hate to be charged with designing the next gen Corvette, what demographic do you go after?
Tom
I work with far too many 20 and 30 something’s that just don't get the current Corvette. The big rumbling V8 escapes them. To them it's a bunch of old folks clinging to the fifties and sixties while they listen to the Oldies.
I'd hate to be charged with designing the next gen Corvette, what demographic do you go after?
Tom
I am one of those old 50's - 60's guys that loves the old adage "there's no replacement for displacement" however I realize that technology will "overcome".
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 63
From: new ulm mn
Once the Baby Boomers start fading from the Corvette scene, I'm sure the Corvette architecture/platform will change drastically.
I work with far too many 20 and 30 something’s that just don't get the current Corvette. The big rumbling V8 escapes them. To them it's a bunch of old folks clinging to the fifties and sixties while they listen to the Oldies.
I'd hate to be charged with designing the next gen Corvette, what demographic do you go after?
Tom
I work with far too many 20 and 30 something’s that just don't get the current Corvette. The big rumbling V8 escapes them. To them it's a bunch of old folks clinging to the fifties and sixties while they listen to the Oldies.
I'd hate to be charged with designing the next gen Corvette, what demographic do you go after?
Tom
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,448
Likes: 371
From: Maryville TN
St. Jude Donor '06-13,'16-'17, '19
Excellent post!I think at one time GM's target for the Vette was people over 50 with a household income of $100,000 or moe.
Tom
Last edited by TCW; Aug 10, 2011 at 05:06 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 1,328
From: Houston Tx
True, most people currently in their 20’s and 30’s drive 4’s or V6’s, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they dislike V8’s. They really don’t have a choice, as most cars in the price ranges popular with that age group are 4’s and V6’s. It would be dangerous to assume that means they prefer 4’s and V6’s over V8’s. Essentially all luxury cars and many high performance cars remain V8’s. Do you really want to bet the company that when today’s age 20’s-30’s become 40’s-60’s and are better able to afford prestige cars they will want them to be 4’s and V6’s? I think not. Upcoming mileage standards will mean fewer V8’s, but the inherent mileage advantage for a V6 over a V8 for engines of otherwise equal technology and displacement is quite small. If a company wants to be a player in the luxury or high performance areas, they’d better think long and hard before they abandon V8’s. It doesn’t have to be a DOHC, VVT, DI, and who knows what other bells and whistles V8. But it needs to be a V8, and probably a turbo to avoid needing too much displacement for the upcoming mileage standards.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,244
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,681
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From: Mooresville (Race City USA) NC
I imagine GM still covets that market segment with the Corvette, and with the CTS models for those folks needing a little more room or decorum. Let's face it, it is a huge and growing segment, and many in that demographic still like 'American' made. That's not a bad market to chase.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: Arlington Texas
You are perpetuating a myth and a falsehood when you state that the Cosworth/Vega was disastrously unreliable. This is simply not true. If you meant to refer ONLY to the 2.3 liter Vega engine, I agree. However, my "Chevy Cosworth" has been the most reliable car I have ever owned. It suffers from none of the problems the cheap Vega and its engine did. They are two different models.
BTW, a '75-1/2 Chevy Cosworth Vega was the ONLY 2-wheel-drive American-built car to have finished the 1977 London to Sydney Rally. It made it for 30,000 km during the marathon and then was driven cross-country to its home in Virginia, without any engine problems. This car is the only Cosworth Vega to have circumnavigated the world. Unreliable? I know better!
But, let's get back to my point, which is that GM has the expertise to build DOHC 4-valve head engines. I love my LS3, but GM can build a modern engine. -Clark
Last edited by clarkakirby; Aug 11, 2011 at 12:41 PM. Reason: addition
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 1,328
From: Houston Tx
As far as I can see, we only disagree on the Cosworth/Vega reliability issue. We apparently agree that Mercury Marine built the 1990’s ZR1 engine, and that GM built the Cosworth Vega engine, and that GM didn’t design the twin cam heads for either engine. We also agree that GM has the ability to design and build good DOHC engines, though we may have a partial disagreement on that one since I think that’s demonstrated more by the Northstar than the two discussed here. As to Cosworth/Vega reliability, I’m pretty sure it used the standard Vega block, which was the Achilles’ heel of the Vega. That was one of the first attempts to use an aluminum block without steel cylinder liners, and very few lasted more than 40000 miles without rings and re-boring (or living with very high oil consumption). If I’m wrong, and the Cosworth/Vega used a completely different block, or used liners, or had some other way of addressing the cylinder bore and ring life problem of the Vega block, then I apologize in advance. I admit that I have no first hand experience with the Cosworth/Vega, and 10 minutes of internet research gave conflicting info on the Cosworth/Vega block.
