Who is running the Pfadt Johnny O'Connell Stage 1 Suspension?
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Who is running the Pfadt Johnny O'Connell Stage 1 Suspension?
Looking for someone with a Z51 car that can give me a comparision between a stock Z51 setup and a Z51 with the JOC package.
#3
There are a couple threads up on the forums here with some feedback, but we get a lot of praise for the JO package via Email. Here are some links to Z51 vs. JOC:
JMcDon1007 reviews JOC suspension package.
Z51 to Pfadt JOC Review
Here was my favorite review that I've seen come across in the last few days...
I've seen you've made a couple threads about the JOC package. Maybe it's time to jump on board?
JMcDon1007 reviews JOC suspension package.
Z51 to Pfadt JOC Review
Here was my favorite review that I've seen come across in the last few days...
2005 Z51 that now has the JOC Stage 1. Long time Porsche 911 C4S owner and PCA HPDE Instructor who recently went to the "dark side" in PCA HPDE events with a C6 that I had the JOC Stage 1 done to before going to a 3-day HPDE last weekend at NJMP Lightning that included five hours of open track time for advanced drivers.
Best $1,000 I have ever spent on a car. For the track the ability to corner flatter and noticeably less dive on high speed track braking while still having comfortable street driving is pretty amazing.
Car feels slightly firmer on the street while noticeably better on the track. An absolute bargain compared to the $5K plus for the Bilstein PSSS9 I had on my last P-car that was then to stiff on the street on the softest setting.
If you're just going to street drive your car I wouldn't spend the money as the stock Z51 suspension works fine because there is only so much you can push your car on the street when you can't use the entire road due to the possibility of traffic coming the opposite way. If you're going to do both I can highly recommend the JOC Stage 1. Since I am going to continue to use this car on the street and not turn it into a track only car I specifically wanted a suspension set up that would provide acceptable performance on the track while still being comfortable on the street. It proved to be way more than "acceptable" on the track while only being mildly firmer on the street.
Hat's off to Pfadt and Johnny O'Connell on the development / tuning of the shocks and sway bars - they hit the mark for what they were trying to provide. I was a little skeptical at first, but I'm a believer now.
Best $1,000 I have ever spent on a car. For the track the ability to corner flatter and noticeably less dive on high speed track braking while still having comfortable street driving is pretty amazing.
Car feels slightly firmer on the street while noticeably better on the track. An absolute bargain compared to the $5K plus for the Bilstein PSSS9 I had on my last P-car that was then to stiff on the street on the softest setting.
If you're just going to street drive your car I wouldn't spend the money as the stock Z51 suspension works fine because there is only so much you can push your car on the street when you can't use the entire road due to the possibility of traffic coming the opposite way. If you're going to do both I can highly recommend the JOC Stage 1. Since I am going to continue to use this car on the street and not turn it into a track only car I specifically wanted a suspension set up that would provide acceptable performance on the track while still being comfortable on the street. It proved to be way more than "acceptable" on the track while only being mildly firmer on the street.
Hat's off to Pfadt and Johnny O'Connell on the development / tuning of the shocks and sway bars - they hit the mark for what they were trying to provide. I was a little skeptical at first, but I'm a believer now.
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
There are a couple threads up on the forums here with some feedback, but we get a lot of praise for the JO package via Email. Here are some links to Z51 vs. JOC:
JMcDon1007 reviews JOC suspension package.
Z51 to Pfadt JOC Review
Here was my favorite review that I've seen come across in the last few days...
I've seen you've made a couple threads about the JOC package. Maybe it's time to jump on board?
JMcDon1007 reviews JOC suspension package.
Z51 to Pfadt JOC Review
Here was my favorite review that I've seen come across in the last few days...
I've seen you've made a couple threads about the JOC package. Maybe it's time to jump on board?
Yeah I've been thinking about this for awhile now. My original thought was to do a basic upgrade from my FE1 by using Z51 springs and sways with an off the shelf shock like a Bilstein sport. Now I am thinking about using the Z51 springs with your JOC setup. I think both setups will offer a substantial performance improvement, with the nod obviously going with the JOC package.
My two concerns with the JOC package are ride and cost. This setup has to work as a daily driver as well as a track day car. I have been in Z51 cars and the ride is completley tolerable to me, I wouldn't expect the Bilsteins sports to alter that too much. I am concerned the JOC package will be considerable stiffer, especially on a narrow body car.
My other concern being cost, a z51 swaybar upgrade and Bilstein shocks can be obtained for less than half of what the JOC package will cost. I understand the difference is only 400-500 dollars but money is money and it is tough to justify the cost considering both systems should be a significant improvment over what I have.
#5
Thanks for the info...
Yeah I've been thinking about this for awhile now. My original thought was to do a basic upgrade from my FE1 by using Z51 springs and sways with an off the shelf shock like a Bilstein sport. Now I am thinking about using the Z51 springs with your JOC setup. I think both setups will offer a substantial performance improvement, with the nod obviously going with the JOC package.
My two concerns with the JOC package are ride and cost. This setup has to work as a daily driver as well as a track day car. I have been in Z51 cars and the ride is completley tolerable to me, I wouldn't expect the Bilsteins sports to alter that too much. I am concerned the JOC package will be considerable stiffer, especially on a narrow body car.
My other concern being cost, a z51 swaybar upgrade and Bilstein shocks can be obtained for less than half of what the JOC package will cost. I understand the difference is only 400-500 dollars but money is money and it is tough to justify the cost considering both systems should be a significant improvment over what I have.
Yeah I've been thinking about this for awhile now. My original thought was to do a basic upgrade from my FE1 by using Z51 springs and sways with an off the shelf shock like a Bilstein sport. Now I am thinking about using the Z51 springs with your JOC setup. I think both setups will offer a substantial performance improvement, with the nod obviously going with the JOC package.
My two concerns with the JOC package are ride and cost. This setup has to work as a daily driver as well as a track day car. I have been in Z51 cars and the ride is completley tolerable to me, I wouldn't expect the Bilsteins sports to alter that too much. I am concerned the JOC package will be considerable stiffer, especially on a narrow body car.
My other concern being cost, a z51 swaybar upgrade and Bilstein shocks can be obtained for less than half of what the JOC package will cost. I understand the difference is only 400-500 dollars but money is money and it is tough to justify the cost considering both systems should be a significant improvment over what I have.
The cost of the kit for the amount of performance increase really does make the JO package a bargain. You can always get OEM parts which will improve performance from where you're at now, but you're ultimately going to be limited to OEM performance.
With either package you're going to have more fun with the car! Give it a little more thought and we will be here if you would like to place an order.
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
One thing I wont get from GM parts is support from Pfadt! You guys have always been great with the info!
My car is going to be a 1-3 track day a year car, 98% of the time it will be driven on New England roads. So I need to be honest about how aggressive of a setup I need.
That being siad it will kill me to go the Z51 route and find it was "not enough", especially on more agrressive tires (I will probably go to RE11s). Right now the lack of body control with the FE1 is downright obnoxious, not becoming of a performance car.
My car is going to be a 1-3 track day a year car, 98% of the time it will be driven on New England roads. So I need to be honest about how aggressive of a setup I need.
That being siad it will kill me to go the Z51 route and find it was "not enough", especially on more agrressive tires (I will probably go to RE11s). Right now the lack of body control with the FE1 is downright obnoxious, not becoming of a performance car.
#7
Pro
Z51 w/JOC sway bars only
2007 Z51 Coupe. On my periodic track days there's a few corners that create excessive body roll, with the stock Z51 set-up. I've recently added the JOC sway bars and have yet to track the car on that same course. Ironically, that is coming up next Monday. I'll try and remember to update this reply at that time.
In the meantime, I can give you 2 anecdotal experiences...
1) on the street, feel, control and ride quality are now what I would expect in a performance vehicle. More stable in turns, a bit more "stiff" when one side hits an obstacle and the other doesn't. I will transfer these bars to my next Corvette, if that time comes. btw, the yellow bars appearing from the rear view is kinda cool on the Velocity Yellow car.
2) My wife is anything but a performance driver. She doesn't drive the car to it's limits. Even she has commented on the "feel" of the car. For example, there is that one favorite curve that we all have near our home. It's that one that we keep trying more and more. Well, the first time going through "that" curve with her in the right seat, she exclaimed "Wow, that was a lot better". Even she could feel the difference in reduced body roll.
Thank you Pfadt for the excellent product. I HIGHLY recommend all Corvettes upgrade to at least the JOC bars.
In the meantime, I can give you 2 anecdotal experiences...
1) on the street, feel, control and ride quality are now what I would expect in a performance vehicle. More stable in turns, a bit more "stiff" when one side hits an obstacle and the other doesn't. I will transfer these bars to my next Corvette, if that time comes. btw, the yellow bars appearing from the rear view is kinda cool on the Velocity Yellow car.
2) My wife is anything but a performance driver. She doesn't drive the car to it's limits. Even she has commented on the "feel" of the car. For example, there is that one favorite curve that we all have near our home. It's that one that we keep trying more and more. Well, the first time going through "that" curve with her in the right seat, she exclaimed "Wow, that was a lot better". Even she could feel the difference in reduced body roll.
Thank you Pfadt for the excellent product. I HIGHLY recommend all Corvettes upgrade to at least the JOC bars.
Last edited by RandelB; 06-28-2012 at 11:26 AM.
#8
I didn't comment cause I have a Widebody, however it is an 09 with the Z51 package. The difference with the JOC-Pfadt package (shocks and bars) is night and day! Driving in today I thought to myself this is how a Corvette should ride and especially handle. You do feel the road though, it is a little harsher than stock. But well worth it!
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
So I ordered the JOC package today! I am super excited about trying this suspension setup.
I have one question the guys at Pfadt may be able to help with. I have some leaf springs I bought used and I would like to identify them before I install them.
The numbers on the springs are...
Front: Engraved 22171750, sticker 22178729
Rear: Engraved 22200944, sticker 10302917
I have one question the guys at Pfadt may be able to help with. I have some leaf springs I bought used and I would like to identify them before I install them.
The numbers on the springs are...
Front: Engraved 22171750, sticker 22178729
Rear: Engraved 22200944, sticker 10302917
#10
So I ordered the JOC package today! I am super excited about trying this suspension setup.
I have one question the guys at Pfadt may be able to help with. I have some leaf springs I bought used and I would like to identify them before I install them.
The numbers on the springs are...
Front: Engraved 22171750, sticker 22178729
Rear: Engraved 22200944, sticker 10302917
I have one question the guys at Pfadt may be able to help with. I have some leaf springs I bought used and I would like to identify them before I install them.
The numbers on the springs are...
Front: Engraved 22171750, sticker 22178729
Rear: Engraved 22200944, sticker 10302917
The rear spring is trickier. I don't have that part number listed. Confirm that the spring is indeed for a C5 by looking for the C5 rear spring specific mounting hardware. A C5 rear spring will look like this: Rather than the C6 which will have a threaded hole for the spring adjuster pads to thread into...The C5 will have a hole at both ends like the picture above.
Either way if it's a C5Z or C5Z51 it's an increase in rate over the base spring.
Thanks for the order! Definitely keep us updated on how you like the JO package after it's installed!
Last edited by Pfadt Racing; 07-16-2012 at 06:18 PM.
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
#13
Former Vendor
You'll be very pleased with this set up! It is a great package that works excellent on the street and is track capable.
I'll check those part #'s against what I have here. I have a few Z51 take offs.
Please feel free to call, email or PM us anytime with questions.
Kind regards,
Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
I'll check those part #'s against what I have here. I have a few Z51 take offs.
Please feel free to call, email or PM us anytime with questions.
Kind regards,
Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
Last edited by JDP Motorsports; 07-16-2012 at 10:41 PM.
#14
Safety Car
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Posts: 3,639
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on
6 Posts
St. Jude Donor '08
I put this suspension on my 2000 FRC that I run off and on at HPDE events. In track form the car is very neutral and well balanced. I love it. On the street it is a bit firm but it really helps the car with bumps in corners as it doesn't jump out like it used to. My buddy has this suspension on his C6 Z06 and he loves his too.
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Z51 Springs
Ok, on another thread the rear spring I have has been identified as a C6 Z51 spring according to this website.
http://www.corvetterecycling.com/product_p/22200944.htm
The front however, has been identified as a C5Z front spring. So the question is...is that the same spring as an C6 Z51??
I know they both have a rate of 526lbs, but are they the same spring?
http://www.corvetterecycling.com/product_p/22200944.htm
The front however, has been identified as a C5Z front spring. So the question is...is that the same spring as an C6 Z51??
I know they both have a rate of 526lbs, but are they the same spring?
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
OK I figured it out. Both numbers have been superceded by GM.
The front spring number is for FE3 sport suspension manual and automatic transmission from 1997-2012.
http://www.gmpartsdistributor.com/pa...ow=1&maxRow=10
The rear spring number is for FE3 sport suspension manual and automatic transmission from 2005-2012.
http://www.gmpartsdistributor.com/pa...ow=1&maxRow=10
Looks like I didn't get swindled!
The front spring number is for FE3 sport suspension manual and automatic transmission from 1997-2012.
http://www.gmpartsdistributor.com/pa...ow=1&maxRow=10
The rear spring number is for FE3 sport suspension manual and automatic transmission from 2005-2012.
http://www.gmpartsdistributor.com/pa...ow=1&maxRow=10
Looks like I didn't get swindled!
#18
Drifting
You'll be very pleased with this set up! It is a great package that works excellent on the street and is track capable.
I'll check those part #'s against what I have here. I have a few Z51 take offs.
Please feel free to call, email or PM us anytime with questions.
Kind regards,
Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
I'll check those part #'s against what I have here. I have a few Z51 take offs.
Please feel free to call, email or PM us anytime with questions.
Kind regards,
Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
As some of you know, I have done lots of research on what direction to take my suspension and now that I have gone the JOC route I am very satisfied. I have only had the chance to street drive the car, but even if I never brought the car to the track, I am very satisfied. For the record, I had a completely stock FE1 car and went with the JOC setup and Z51 springs. Also know that CT roads are some of the worst that I have experienced and I personally live on a dirt road with stutter bumps.
The ride is surprisingly compliant, there are times when I am driving it where I think it could actually be stiffer, and that is with stock GY RF tires. The worst thing about the ride is it exposes some of the interior and roof creaking that was not as apparent with the FE1 setup. After a roof lube (see roof primer post) the interior is very quiet. It’s been a while since I drove a Z51 car but IMO the JOC setup rides better than a stock Z51.
As far as performance all I can say is wow. The JOC package makes the car much more enjoyable to drive at the limit. Exploring the limit of grip with the FE1 is a white knuckle experience. With the JOC you feel confident pushing the car right to the limit of the tires and when you go over, it is very controllable. I have some common corners that I have always driven hard, and here are a few things I have noticed right away.
The high speed body control is worlds better. No matter how hard I push the car, it seems buckled down and much more connected to the road. I find myself coming into every corner (where safe) carrying more speed. And the best part is if I do overcook it, it lets me know with a more gradual and recoverable breakaway.
On one corner, I came into it a little hot (new found confidence), so I lifted a little coming into it. It’s a downhill corner so I got a lot of transfer to the front. The car actually power-off over steered, which it has never really done before. The best part was how it behaved. It was a very soft breakaway, it just rotated the car a little, I dialed out some steering and it stayed perfectly on line, what a great feeling.
The car will actually take some power on corner exit (low speed) now. With the FE1, the car would always power on over steer on a particular corner, with the tires loaded it would not tolerate any throttle on exit. Now I can actually feed out the power earlier, I was shocked! The pavement was not perfect so I think I was losing tire contact, but not with the new setup, this is a huge improvement.
I think the best thing about the whole package is the ride/handling balance tuning. There are some times I wish it was a little softer, and other where I actually wish the tuning was more aggressive, this is how I know it’s perfect. Feels firm and responsive without being harsh. The phrase "should have come this was from GM" is over used IMO, but in this case it applies. This should have been the Z51 setup from GM.
Hats off to the guys at Pfadt for making a great product and JDP motorsports for the sale. I can't wait to get this thing on the track!
The ride is surprisingly compliant, there are times when I am driving it where I think it could actually be stiffer, and that is with stock GY RF tires. The worst thing about the ride is it exposes some of the interior and roof creaking that was not as apparent with the FE1 setup. After a roof lube (see roof primer post) the interior is very quiet. It’s been a while since I drove a Z51 car but IMO the JOC setup rides better than a stock Z51.
As far as performance all I can say is wow. The JOC package makes the car much more enjoyable to drive at the limit. Exploring the limit of grip with the FE1 is a white knuckle experience. With the JOC you feel confident pushing the car right to the limit of the tires and when you go over, it is very controllable. I have some common corners that I have always driven hard, and here are a few things I have noticed right away.
The high speed body control is worlds better. No matter how hard I push the car, it seems buckled down and much more connected to the road. I find myself coming into every corner (where safe) carrying more speed. And the best part is if I do overcook it, it lets me know with a more gradual and recoverable breakaway.
On one corner, I came into it a little hot (new found confidence), so I lifted a little coming into it. It’s a downhill corner so I got a lot of transfer to the front. The car actually power-off over steered, which it has never really done before. The best part was how it behaved. It was a very soft breakaway, it just rotated the car a little, I dialed out some steering and it stayed perfectly on line, what a great feeling.
The car will actually take some power on corner exit (low speed) now. With the FE1, the car would always power on over steer on a particular corner, with the tires loaded it would not tolerate any throttle on exit. Now I can actually feed out the power earlier, I was shocked! The pavement was not perfect so I think I was losing tire contact, but not with the new setup, this is a huge improvement.
I think the best thing about the whole package is the ride/handling balance tuning. There are some times I wish it was a little softer, and other where I actually wish the tuning was more aggressive, this is how I know it’s perfect. Feels firm and responsive without being harsh. The phrase "should have come this was from GM" is over used IMO, but in this case it applies. This should have been the Z51 setup from GM.
Hats off to the guys at Pfadt for making a great product and JDP motorsports for the sale. I can't wait to get this thing on the track!
#20
As some of you know, I have done lots of research on what direction to take my suspension and now that I have gone the JOC route I am very satisfied. I have only had the chance to street drive the car, but even if I never brought the car to the track, I am very satisfied. For the record, I had a completely stock FE1 car and went with the JOC setup and Z51 springs. Also know that CT roads are some of the worst that I have experienced and I personally live on a dirt road with stutter bumps.
The ride is surprisingly compliant, there are times when I am driving it where I think it could actually be stiffer, and that is with stock GY RF tires. The worst thing about the ride is it exposes some of the interior and roof creaking that was not as apparent with the FE1 setup. After a roof lube (see roof primer post) the interior is very quiet. It’s been a while since I drove a Z51 car but IMO the JOC setup rides better than a stock Z51.
As far as performance all I can say is wow. The JOC package makes the car much more enjoyable to drive at the limit. Exploring the limit of grip with the FE1 is a white knuckle experience. With the JOC you feel confident pushing the car right to the limit of the tires and when you go over, it is very controllable. I have some common corners that I have always driven hard, and here are a few things I have noticed right away.
The high speed body control is worlds better. No matter how hard I push the car, it seems buckled down and much more connected to the road. I find myself coming into every corner (where safe) carrying more speed. And the best part is if I do overcook it, it lets me know with a more gradual and recoverable breakaway.
On one corner, I came into it a little hot (new found confidence), so I lifted a little coming into it. It’s a downhill corner so I got a lot of transfer to the front. The car actually power-off over steered, which it has never really done before. The best part was how it behaved. It was a very soft breakaway, it just rotated the car a little, I dialed out some steering and it stayed perfectly on line, what a great feeling.
The car will actually take some power on corner exit (low speed) now. With the FE1, the car would always power on over steer on a particular corner, with the tires loaded it would not tolerate any throttle on exit. Now I can actually feed out the power earlier, I was shocked! The pavement was not perfect so I think I was losing tire contact, but not with the new setup, this is a huge improvement.
I think the best thing about the whole package is the ride/handling balance tuning. There are some times I wish it was a little softer, and other where I actually wish the tuning was more aggressive, this is how I know it’s perfect. Feels firm and responsive without being harsh. The phrase "should have come this was from GM" is over used IMO, but in this case it applies. This should have been the Z51 setup from GM.
Hats off to the guys at Pfadt for making a great product and JDP motorsports for the sale. I can't wait to get this thing on the track!
The ride is surprisingly compliant, there are times when I am driving it where I think it could actually be stiffer, and that is with stock GY RF tires. The worst thing about the ride is it exposes some of the interior and roof creaking that was not as apparent with the FE1 setup. After a roof lube (see roof primer post) the interior is very quiet. It’s been a while since I drove a Z51 car but IMO the JOC setup rides better than a stock Z51.
As far as performance all I can say is wow. The JOC package makes the car much more enjoyable to drive at the limit. Exploring the limit of grip with the FE1 is a white knuckle experience. With the JOC you feel confident pushing the car right to the limit of the tires and when you go over, it is very controllable. I have some common corners that I have always driven hard, and here are a few things I have noticed right away.
The high speed body control is worlds better. No matter how hard I push the car, it seems buckled down and much more connected to the road. I find myself coming into every corner (where safe) carrying more speed. And the best part is if I do overcook it, it lets me know with a more gradual and recoverable breakaway.
On one corner, I came into it a little hot (new found confidence), so I lifted a little coming into it. It’s a downhill corner so I got a lot of transfer to the front. The car actually power-off over steered, which it has never really done before. The best part was how it behaved. It was a very soft breakaway, it just rotated the car a little, I dialed out some steering and it stayed perfectly on line, what a great feeling.
The car will actually take some power on corner exit (low speed) now. With the FE1, the car would always power on over steer on a particular corner, with the tires loaded it would not tolerate any throttle on exit. Now I can actually feed out the power earlier, I was shocked! The pavement was not perfect so I think I was losing tire contact, but not with the new setup, this is a huge improvement.
I think the best thing about the whole package is the ride/handling balance tuning. There are some times I wish it was a little softer, and other where I actually wish the tuning was more aggressive, this is how I know it’s perfect. Feels firm and responsive without being harsh. The phrase "should have come this was from GM" is over used IMO, but in this case it applies. This should have been the Z51 setup from GM.
Hats off to the guys at Pfadt for making a great product and JDP motorsports for the sale. I can't wait to get this thing on the track!
Let us know if we can do anything else for you, and definitely report back once you've hit your first track day!