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No one has ever produced evidence that there was an oil pump design change in 2009 for the LS7 vs the 06 thru 08 LS7. ................GM did introduce the new LS9 as having a higher capacity & pressure oil pump due to the oil spraying underneath the pistons for additional cooling. None of that was added to the LS7 and later dry sump LS3.
So you piqued my curiosity and I started poking around to check oil pump part numbers. My quick, unofficial search showed that they called for the same oil pump pn. 12623097 for all years of Z06 & also GS/dry sump motors. Also checked the ZR1 pump, it's pn was different at # 12598212.
A little more searching shows the ZR1 number has been superseded by the ZO6 pump now, so it appears if you need a new oil pump for a ZR1, all you'll get is the Z06/GS pump. Kinda sucks maybe....thanks GM.
Perhaps they ran out of ZR1 pumps in the supply chain and the other pump meets the minimum requirements, who knows. They felt the need to put that pump in there originally though, so that's a bit of a concern, especially for the guys that boost the power up.
Also figured I'll check to see what the GM service oil pressure specs are for the motors (what a tech would use to troubleshoot/warranty replace, etc). Maybe that would show some differences.....
Oddly enough, they used the same oil pressure limits for ALL the dry sump motors across the years 2006 & up:
24 psi @ 1K RPM at 212 degrees F.
35 psi @ 2K RPM
38 psi @ 3K RPM
I was hoping to see at least a little different numbers for the ZR1, but granted, these numbers are just minimum general specs for service info.
So you piqued my curiosity and I started poking around to check oil pump part numbers. My quick, unofficial search showed that they called for the same oil pump pn. 12623097 for all years of Z06 & also GS/dry sump motors. Also checked the ZR1 pump, it's pn was different at # 12598212.
A little more searching shows the ZR1 number has been superseded by the ZO6 pump now, so it appears if you need a new oil pump for a ZR1, all you'll get is the Z06/GS pump. Kinda sucks maybe....thanks GM.
Also figured I'll check to see what the GM service oil pressure specs are for the motors (what a tech would use to troubleshoot/warranty replace, etc). Maybe that would show some differences.....
Oddly enough, they used the same oil pressure limits for ALL the dry sump motors across the years 2006 & up:
24 psi @ 1K RPM at 212 degrees F.
35 psi @ 2K RPM
38 psi @ 3K RPM
I was hoping to see at least a little different numbers for the ZR1, but granted, these numbers are just minimum general specs for service info. Perhaps they ran out of ZR1 pumps in the supply chain and the other pump meets the minimum requirements, who knows. They felt the need to put that pump in there originally though, so that's a bit of a concern, especially for the guys that boost the power up.
Thanks for your research. The LS9 pump is definitely higher capacity (flow) design so it is very disconcerning that the only replacement is an LS7 pump. These are all gear type positive displacement pumps which are essentially constant flow regardless of pressure and the flow rate is directly proportional to operating speed. The pump simply pumps flow against the hydraulic resistance to that flow within the engine. Think of each lubrication point in the engine as an equivalent orifice that will have increasing pressure drop across it as flow increases. If bearing clearances open up with wear or damage, that means those equivalent orifices increase in equivalent diameter with operating pressure decreasing. Add pressure drop across the filter plus a small amount of resistance in the lube channels in the block results in the pressure the pump has to pump against. The piston cooling oil squirters were the major addition to the LS9 that required a higher flow pump than the LS7.
Dug a little deeper and it seems there IS a 2009-2013 ZR1 specific oil pump with part # 12578147 now. Odd that the old ZR1 specific number gets crossed to a Z06/GS number and not the new number that it replaced. Must be GM logic....
Hey, I started a whole new thread about the problems of just trying to find out what part numbers we should use for the various fluids in a C6. The short answer is "Ask on Corvette Forum, if you don't then you'll probably get the wrong answer from your dealer."
The "official" page in their fluids list has been wrong about some of the cars since at least 2009 and never corrected.
GM did introduce the new LS9 as having a higher capacity & pressure oil pump due to the oil spraying underneath the pistons for additional cooling. None of that was added to the LS7 and later dry sump LS3.
Found more useless info from GM Powertrain regarding dry sump stuff:
The LS9's dry-sump system was introduced on the 7.0L LS7 V-8 in the Corvette Z06. But because the 2009 Corvette ZR1 further pushes the impressive performance envelope established by the Z06, the LS9 extends the system's lubricating capability 33 percent. This is accomplished with a larger 10.5-quart reservoir capacity, increased with a 2.5-quart auxiliary tank attached to the main reservoir, and higher-flow, 32.5-gpm gerotor pump. The increased capacity dry sump system will also be used on the 2010 LS7.
I'm guessing when they say 'increased capacity dry sump system' for the LS7, they're only talking about oil quantity, not to include the increased flow capacity ZR1 oil pump. This document was dated for the 2010 model year though & maybe they had good intentions of doing it for the LS7 too, but the pump part numbers on the later years seem to say they didn't.
The LS9's dry-sump system was introduced on the 7.0L LS7 V-8 in the Corvette Z06. But because the 2009 Corvette ZR1 further pushes the impressive performance envelope established by the Z06, the LS9 extends the system's lubricating capability 33 percent. This is accomplished with a larger 10.5-quart reservoir capacity, increased with a 2.5-quart auxiliary tank attached to the main reservoir, and higher-flow, 32.5-gpm gerotor pump. The increased capacity dry sump system will also be used on the 2010 LS7.
I'm guessing when they say 'increased capacity dry sump system' for the LS7, they're only talking about oil quantity, not to include the increased flow capacity ZR1 oil pump. This document was dated for the 2010 model year though & maybe they had good intentions of doing it for the LS7 too, but the pump part numbers on the later years seem to say they didn't.
My thoughts as well. The LS7 engine internals did not change (such as adding piston cooling oil squirters) so there was no where for the extra flow from an LS9 oil pump to go other than ramming it thru the bearing clearances. Too much pressure lube flow thru a hydrodynamic (sleeve) type bearing can damage it thru cavitation.
So, someone asked about the difference between the Mobil1 M1-113 & the new M1-113A today in another thread. My first thought was 'Oh No', they've gone the way like the rest of the Fram built filters now that they took over Champ Labs ...example PF48 vs PF48E.
Ran to a Wally World and found the newer 113A on the shelf. I was pleasantly surprised from the outside glance that it appeared to look like the older version in its construction. Cut it open and thought, damn, it looks exactly the same as the old one. At least it didn't have that crappy plastic cage, fiber end caps & plastic button for the relief valve like the Fram/PF48E.
The center metal core on the old one had clearly stamped holes for oil flow vs. the new one which seems to just have perforations/cuts for lack of a better description. Still probably not a big deal flow wise.
The next observation and probably the main difference between old vs. new is the filter pleat count, 54 on the old one and 64 on the new one. That is how they may be saying it has a longer life, increased capacity etc. Otherwise, same case, soft seat relief valve, tension spring, and drain back valve. In all, seems to be good news!
Thanks to jft69z for the info. It is nice to see a manufacture that has an new and improved product that is actually an improvement and not just a way to cut cost.
Wow, didn't see this thread till just recently, right when I'm about due for an oil change. I started to panic and think the Mobil 1 M1-113 was going the way of the PF48, and that the M1-113A would be like the PF48E was/is. In my mind it's a cheap runoff of the original and it's prob just me, but I wouldn't trust that PF48E in my car for any type of strenuous or long trips/driving.
I'm glad to say from everything I've seen/read the new M1-113A's seems to be a quality item. I guess time will tell. Again, after the PF48 to PF48E fiasco, you can't be too sure. There are probably lots of folks that are using, and have used the PF48E with no issues. Last year, right before a 2 week, 5500 mile grueling road trip, thru desert temps as high as 119 degrees, I just didn't feel comfortable or at ease using that (what looked to me) el cheapo PF48E. I swapped out the PF48E for the M1 113 after 50 miles the day before the trip.
I was very happy with the switch. Seems the M1 113's are just about ALL gone now. I searched all the Walmart's in the area, along with Pep Boys, Autozone...etc. They all are stocked with the "green" labeled M1-113As. I did swing into O Reilly's and found four (4) M1 113s, I did buy two (2) of them. That should last me awhile....this thread seems to show that the M1-113A is built along the same lines as the M1-113....so hoping for the best.
I used to use the Delco PF48 in my GS (non-dry sump)
Then I switched to the PF48E after the old PF48s were gone.
Now after looking at the new PF48E, I am not happy with it ... Now am using the UPF48R (I believe a much better quality filter, as far as the ACDelco filters go).
Yes, the UPF48R is a good, high performance filter. Many have said it's identical to the Mobil 1 M1-113. Those are my top two (2) choices. M1 113, UPF48R or the new M1 113A (since the 113s are just about gone).
I only use the UPF48R for my 10 GS for the past 6 years. My GS is Automatic, so it's the wet slump. Although I could the cheaper ones, but I like to use quality parts for my GS
11-05-2016, 08:24 AM
