Wow. BG should be ashamed...
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Wow. BG should be ashamed...
Ok, looks like everyone here was absolutely correct:
Alignment, and tires even, not right from the plant....have noticed vibration through all speed for a while..nothing earth shattering, but enough to finally make me bring it in and also check the alignment...
Here's what they found (Coyle Chevy in Clarksville, IN) with only 2500 miles on it, and me having taken delivery not quite 2 months ago...
ALL FOUR tires were out of balance.....two of them so bad they they had to be taken off the rim and repositioned...all 4 were then road force balanced.
Alignment: Toe was out of Gm spec for drivers side front (0.18 degrees) and pass side rear (-0.12)...plus, total Toe of 0.30 degrees front, and total Toe of -0.03 total Toe rear
Here was my prev alignment specs:
LF RF
Camber -0.9 -0.5
Caster 7.1 7.2
Toe 0.18 0.11
TOTAL TOE 0.30
LR RR
Camber -0.9 -0.8
Toe 0.09 -0.12
TOTAL TOE -0.03
CURRENT alignment specs as of today:
LF RF
Camber -0.5 -0.6
Caster Same Same
Toe 0.04 0.02
TOTAL TOE 0.06
LR RR
Camber -0.7 -0.7
Toe -0.02 0.01
TOTAL TOE -0.01
Now I do not profess to be an alignment expert, nor a suspension or tire expert, but how is it all 4 tires were out of balance, and the alignment, especially one side to the other, was so out of whack???
Alignment, and tires even, not right from the plant....have noticed vibration through all speed for a while..nothing earth shattering, but enough to finally make me bring it in and also check the alignment...
Here's what they found (Coyle Chevy in Clarksville, IN) with only 2500 miles on it, and me having taken delivery not quite 2 months ago...
ALL FOUR tires were out of balance.....two of them so bad they they had to be taken off the rim and repositioned...all 4 were then road force balanced.
Alignment: Toe was out of Gm spec for drivers side front (0.18 degrees) and pass side rear (-0.12)...plus, total Toe of 0.30 degrees front, and total Toe of -0.03 total Toe rear
Here was my prev alignment specs:
LF RF
Camber -0.9 -0.5
Caster 7.1 7.2
Toe 0.18 0.11
TOTAL TOE 0.30
LR RR
Camber -0.9 -0.8
Toe 0.09 -0.12
TOTAL TOE -0.03
CURRENT alignment specs as of today:
LF RF
Camber -0.5 -0.6
Caster Same Same
Toe 0.04 0.02
TOTAL TOE 0.06
LR RR
Camber -0.7 -0.7
Toe -0.02 0.01
TOTAL TOE -0.01
Now I do not profess to be an alignment expert, nor a suspension or tire expert, but how is it all 4 tires were out of balance, and the alignment, especially one side to the other, was so out of whack???
#2
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Maybe it's those railroad tracks you keep taking at 65 mph.... j/k. Answer, I don't know why. It just is. I did read on here that the plant is getting better machinery which may also mean a bit more allocation of time to complete the alignment. As to wheel balancing, I thought those arrived from a supplier already mounted--that would mean it's someone's fault, but not the plant itself. Still, the whole car comes from the plant....so their hands are the last to touch it before it gets to the dealer/customer.
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Maybe it's those railroad tracks you keep taking at 65 mph.... j/k. Answer, I don't know why. It just is. I did read on here that the plant is getting better machinery which may also mean a bit more allocation of time to complete the alignment. As to wheel balancing, I thought those arrived from a supplier already mounted--that would mean it's someone's fault, but not the plant itself. Still, the whole car comes from the plant....so their hands are the last to touch it before it gets to the dealer/customer.
Makes me hope they'll refocus on the new C7, or this is not a good sign..
#4
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From the looks of things the original alignment is within GM specs. The specs are so wide you could put an aircraft carrier through them. Assuming the shop used positive for toe in like GM does what is interesting is you originally had just a little toe out in the rear with the car slightly dog walking to the right and now you have a little less toe out with the car slightly dog walking to the left. What were your thrust angle measurements?
The car probably won't handle much differently than you felt before but either way it may have been a little twitchy when changing lanes or going over pavement seams that run lengthwise with the lane.
Bill
The car probably won't handle much differently than you felt before but either way it may have been a little twitchy when changing lanes or going over pavement seams that run lengthwise with the lane.
Bill
#5
They threw all of the weights off of the wheels testing it on the dyno at the factory. It happens quite often, you know....... Maybe?............. Hardly at all?........
Last edited by Don Nolan; 11-29-2012 at 02:36 PM.
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
From the looks of things the original alignment is within GM specs. The specs are so wide you could put an aircraft carrier through them. Assuming the shop used positive for toe in like GM does what is interesting is you originally had just a little toe out in the rear with the car slightly dog walking to the right and now you have a little less toe out with the car slightly dog walking to the left. What were your thrust angle measurements?
The car probably won't handle much differently than you felt before but either way it may have been a little twitchy when changing lanes or going over pavement seams that run lengthwise with the lane.
Bill
The car probably won't handle much differently than you felt before but either way it may have been a little twitchy when changing lanes or going over pavement seams that run lengthwise with the lane.
Bill
Before alignment:
Front: Steer Ahead 0.03
Rear: Thrust Angle 0.10
AFTER Alignment:
Front: Steer Ahead 0.01
Rear: Thrust Angle -0.02
Forgive my ignorance on what exactly these mean,,,and you are right, GM specs have about a 20 degree swing in Toe form Toe in to Toe out, which seems insane
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
From the looks of things the original alignment is within GM specs. The specs are so wide you could put an aircraft carrier through them. Assuming the shop used positive for toe in like GM does what is interesting is you originally had just a little toe out in the rear with the car slightly dog walking to the right and now you have a little less toe out with the car slightly dog walking to the left. What were your thrust angle measurements?
The car probably won't handle much differently than you felt before but either way it may have been a little twitchy when changing lanes or going over pavement seams that run lengthwise with the lane.
Bill
The car probably won't handle much differently than you felt before but either way it may have been a little twitchy when changing lanes or going over pavement seams that run lengthwise with the lane.
Bill
#8
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St. Jude Donor '13
Our 2009 also had tires that were out of balance when purchased new.
I've been told that whoever mounts the tires, just does a basic old fashioned balance job, no Hunter Road Force machine. After a RF balance, the car was much smoother at speed.
The Corvette suspension definitely settles over the first few hundred miles after leaving the factory, and that can effect alignment. But a year or two ago, they were bragging about the money they spent changing things at the factory so alignment would be better. Looks like that didn't help much.
We've owned three new Corvettes (2001, 2006, 2009). After a couple of thousand miles, every one of them had at least one parameter that was outside even the ridiculously wide GM specs.
I've been told that whoever mounts the tires, just does a basic old fashioned balance job, no Hunter Road Force machine. After a RF balance, the car was much smoother at speed.
The Corvette suspension definitely settles over the first few hundred miles after leaving the factory, and that can effect alignment. But a year or two ago, they were bragging about the money they spent changing things at the factory so alignment would be better. Looks like that didn't help much.
We've owned three new Corvettes (2001, 2006, 2009). After a couple of thousand miles, every one of them had at least one parameter that was outside even the ridiculously wide GM specs.
#9
Burning Brakes
It has been said here on the CF that when the cars are loaded onto the truck for delivery, they are tied down in such a way that it can throw out the alignment.
My GS seems fine so far after 7 1/2 months and 3800 miles. No unusual wear or alignment issues.
My GS seems fine so far after 7 1/2 months and 3800 miles. No unusual wear or alignment issues.
#10
Drifting
When I got my C5 back in 03', new, off the lot, first time on highway I could not go over 55 mph because no balance on any tires. Chevy took care of it but I see your point. My 08' has been fine.
#11
Melting Slicks
My '12 GS was good on the alignment, close enough to the 'street' specs where I decoded not to mess with it since the car drove great and the tires seem to be wearing fairly even.
But the balance was pretty bad, driving it home it had a little vibration in the wheel and by 2000 miles at 70-73mph you could watch the steering wheel shaking pretty bad. Dealer tried to fix it twice and made it worse, took the front wheels to a local tire place that does a lot of sport/exotics to be road force balanced and its been vibration free since - best 30.00 I spent on the car.
But the balance was pretty bad, driving it home it had a little vibration in the wheel and by 2000 miles at 70-73mph you could watch the steering wheel shaking pretty bad. Dealer tried to fix it twice and made it worse, took the front wheels to a local tire place that does a lot of sport/exotics to be road force balanced and its been vibration free since - best 30.00 I spent on the car.
#13
Not sure where you picked up your Vette but I would hope all dealers would check these parameters out before delivery. Especially those who have been taken on 'joy rides' and test drives.
#14
Le Mans Master
43k on my daily-driven '07...just bought my third set of tires...i've never had the front end aligned as the tires have worn great straight from the factory. i drive it pretty hard i think although i don't don't hit dips in the road hard and i avoid pot holes and the like. i push it through turns/curves too. still have stock z51 shocks. pretty lucky i think.
#15
Race Director
Here is the tolerances for a GS. OEM vs Pfadt street specs
Front Camber .6 / .2
Front Caster 1.2 / 1
Front Toe .2 / not mentioned
Total Toe .4 / .17
Steer Ahead .1 / not mentioned
Rear Camber 1.2 / .2
Rear Toe .2 / not mentioned
Total Toe .4 / .17
Thrust Angle .4 / not mentioned
That is big tolerances.
OP, they should have adjusted your caster somewhat since it is on the low end of the scale. More positive caster never hurts unless racing, less does.
Front Camber .6 / .2
Front Caster 1.2 / 1
Front Toe .2 / not mentioned
Total Toe .4 / .17
Steer Ahead .1 / not mentioned
Rear Camber 1.2 / .2
Rear Toe .2 / not mentioned
Total Toe .4 / .17
Thrust Angle .4 / not mentioned
That is big tolerances.
OP, they should have adjusted your caster somewhat since it is on the low end of the scale. More positive caster never hurts unless racing, less does.
#17
That's the good news...the bad news is that Houston has way too many streets that need fixin'! Hopefully my alignment holds up well.
#19
Melting Slicks
My 2012 Grand Sport balance was so bad they had to replace 2 tires in the first 500 miles. They couldn't begin to get them to balance out. I've had more issues with this car than the previous 2 C6's Ive owned combined. And I thought buying a first year model (2005) was a bad mistake but there Q.C. dept isn't doing their job very good lately. Theyv'e had 7 years to get it better and it has gotten worse.
#20
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