From the August 2002 edition of Cars & Parts Corvette, Page 7:

High-end Corvette

'General Motors is still toying with the idea of a high-end Corvette, but a mid-engine design is no longer in the plans. It would come sometime after the C6 and would produce "absolutely earth-shattering levels of performance" according to Bob Lutz. He also said it would still look like a Corvette, and further added that GM does not want to make a separate Corvette division as reported earlier.'

 

Cool ... could it be the Cien's 750HP engine in a Corvette???

 

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

there has been talk of this...
I'm guessing a few prototypes will be made, but nothing like this will make to production....

 

They might as well say

"GM is designing a fast corvette that will cost lots more than the standard corvette, thus allowing the standard vette to fall behind all of its competition because they can point to the Z0X / ZRx"

 

"a mid-engine design is no longer in the plans"

This means they want to use the same chassis -- to heck with that! It's ZR1 all over again -- limited appeal outside the Corvette faithful, and either it puts an artificial ceiling on the "regular" Corvette or gets killed by it.

Well, at least you people will get your Viper-beater.

Bummed.

 

GM sold every ZR1 it made, it just decided to stop making them in '93. <heh>. GM does that, it sucks.

Of course, I would love to have a new ZR1. :)

Btw, since when has the base Vette beat out the competition? The L-48 sure didn't, neither did the 327 or the L89 or the LT1/LS1.

sirhC

 

On its introduction "base" C5 smoked 911 like a cheap cigar. Boxster and BMW Z/M3 too. It's taken the AMG SLK to properly steal LS1's thunder, and how many years did that take?

In its day LT1 was brawny enough to keep the Japanese at bay. How did it fare against the contemporary 911?

And back in the Sting Ray days didn't it take a Cobra to bite the Corvette?

Your point is taken, that in the past when there were myriad engine options the bottom half of the options chart lacked heart, but in the modern day when there are at best two engines in the product line, and NO engine options, the "base" Corvette can't be a weakling.

I think as long as the "regular" Corvette continues to out-go anything in its price range it will succeed. The little Mercedes is the first ***** to draw blood. (Mind out of the gutter, please.) And Z06 is not the answer. Z06 is holding back the "base" Corvette at this point. More truthfully, impending C6 and fuel economy are holding it back, but there's no denying that Dave Hill's marketeers have been leaning very heavily on the Z06 crutch to maintain Corvette's performance sheen.

I hope that a future Super Corvette will be super enough that it's not GM's substitute for maintaining performance supremacy in the (presently) $40K-$60K sports car market.

.Jinx

 

Also lets not forget the L98 early C4's. If you get an '84 or '85 Z51, they even ruled in handling not just performance..

 

There's something going on here. The guy on the Viper site says he's worried about a GM produced Viper killer and has some sort of letter about it that he hopes to read at the Viper meet in Nashville. Hill and troop are rumored to be visiting English small volume builders. GM is building the V-12 for Cunningham Motors in which GM has an interest. Rumors keep poping up about a super Vett.

It appears, at least some folks at GM are thinking about responding to the GT-40 and Viper.

Some alternatives are:

Cunningham produced under GM guidance with way big V-12 and price tag.

The Cad rear engined V-12

V-12 powered Vett variation, name unknown

My favorite wish; a LeMans model Vett celebrating two class wins in a row (not to mention the outright win at Daytona and class wins at Sebring and the American LeMans series). 7lt small block and wild body work. Of course a price tag I can't afford but maybe bits and pieces in the GM parts catalog.
;)

 

If they make it it most certainly will be the mid-engined V-12 Cadillac Cien. I think they will make it to keep up with Ford's GT40 and the (many) other supercars coming out in the next few years.

 

The Cien is not designed to compete with the GT40. It's in a totally different league. It would absolutely decimate the GT-40. One is a silly little blown 5.4 ford modular engine making a not-that-impressive 500 hp. The other has a 7.5 liter V12 with 750 hp. One has a tubular space frame, and the other is a carbon fiber monocoque. One is a Ford, and the other is a caddy. One is slated to cost about 100,000. The other is expected to be at least 200,000. The GT-40 is basically a high performance sports car in todays market. The Cien will be in the category of SuperCars (if they actually build it, which is only a slim possibility). They are lightyears apart. And if the Cien only cost 200,000 it would be an incredible bargain compared to other supercars on the market.

I really doubt the Cien is the "super vette" that is rumored. We need to be a little less vette-centric here. Caddy is trying to boost their own image, and the Cien is a car designed to do that. If they do in fact build it, it won't be billed as anything even related to the vette. That simply wouldn't do anything good for Caddy's image. And the car is just far too technologically advanced to be built in the price range that they are talking about for a "super vette". One thing we should remember is that the "earth shattering performance" quote from Bob Lutz is at least six months old. He may have repeated it, but to the best of my knowledge he's been tossing this idea out for a while. I think that if you do see an ultra high performance model under the "Corvette" nameplate, it'll be based on the regular production vette (as opposed to being a totally different car, as the cien will be) and will include an exotic drivetrain, and possibly a frame using lighter materials to cut weight way back. Think ZR-1 only better. But don't think Cien. It's just not right for the role. One argument that people will have is that it's a long standing tradition for the Corvette to be the fastest car in GM's lineup. But their recent announcement that the GTPO will be subject to gas guzzler tax shows that the management at GM is willing to break some long standing rules in order to shake things up, and put some spark in their product line. Besides...the Cien will be so far above the vette in both performance, and price that it wouldn't even overshadow it. Prospective vette buyers wouldn't cross shop at all, and wouldn't think they got cheated, any more than mustang owners think they got ripped off cause the V12 Vanquish is faster than their car.

Scott

Scott

 

Scott: Put a 427 in your Z like I did--that will help that power problem!

Interesting points regarding the Cien. If it comes in at $100k, I would buy it in a heartbeat! It could use some more torque however as hp is 750 but torque is only in the 400s.

I think you are on the right track with the super vette. GM is at a crossroads where they really need at least separate models to stay competitive: one price-point car for the Corvette majority; and one more expensive car to mix it up with the big boys.

If GM elects NOT to produce the second car, then it will become yesterday's news in the sportscar world. The new viper, Audi RS6, next BMW M5 and others will be more attractive alternatives.

The ball is in GM's court now. I do not plan to buy another Vette until they put some real power in it.