Engine Additives
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
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If you use top tier gas, there’s little or nothing to be gained from additives. Even the old adage about shifting between top tier brands is less important than it used to be, because all of the top tier additive packages are getting so good. If you go back 10 years ago, company A’s additive might do a smidgen better on injectors, company B’s a smidgen better on valves, company C’s a smidgen better on manifolds, and so forth, so the rotation strategy made some sense. As additives have continued to get better, such differences are shrinking. All of today’s top tier additive packages keep all parts of the engine very clean in 50,000 mile test cycles. When I retired 3 years ago, my company had pretty much given up on showing differences in cleanliness among top tier brands, and was focusing on comparisons to cheapo gas, and on the ability our gas’s additive package to clean up the mess left behind by cheapo gas. If you buy non-top-tier gas, a can of additives now and then might do that sort of cleanup too, but it seems so illogical. Buy cheap gas to save a smidgen, then spend most of those savings on additives, and I’ll guarantee that even with the additives, your engine will end up with more deposits. Where’s the logic in that? And additives in addition to using top tier? Well, ok, you’re not hurting anything other than you wallet. But with today’s top tier packages, it’s not needed.
In addition, I do believe consistent habit of keeping gas tank no lower than 1/2 empty will help keep gas level sender submerged in cleaning additives, thus with less chance of forming varnish to cause fuel level malfunction as well.
Le Mans Master
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From: Madison (Huntsville) Alabama
CI 6-7-8 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '09
Drifting
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From: Houston Tx
It would be very unusual for two direct competitors like Shell and Chevron to have prices that different. Has that difference persisted over a long period of time, or is it a case of one guy more expensive one week, and the other guy the next week as the market fluctuates. If Shell is consistently higher at those two stations, is there anything different about the stations, like the Shell station being in a better location or having more amenities like carwash or convenience store.
Le Mans Master
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From: Madison (Huntsville) Alabama
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St. Jude Donor '09
The GM Fuel Treatment+ bottle, probably Techron (it even has a Chevron symbol on the bottle) recommends using it at every oil change, but I can't recall if that is supposed to be before or after the change.
I had a thread over in bobistheoilguy, someone posted that some fuel additives do cause increased war but Techron isn't one of them. He did not explain how/why he believes that to be true.
Please post if you learn more. I always use mine just before the oil change.
I had a thread over in bobistheoilguy, someone posted that some fuel additives do cause increased war but Techron isn't one of them. He did not explain how/why he believes that to be true.
Please post if you learn more. I always use mine just before the oil change.
I didn't see Chevron mentioned on the label though ... no logo and no use of the word. But the bottles are identical; they just have a different label. I think they're the same product. It says one benefit is for fuels that have a high sulfur content and it corrects the fuel gage malfunctions caused by the sulphur.
There's also a product by DuraLube that claims to treat 40 gallons (as opposed to the 20 for the same amount of the AC Delco stuff or Techron). They refer to it as a super cleaner with twice the strength or some such. Probably all hype compared to the others. I put a bottle in my truck with 92000 miles and can't tell any difference in the way it runs.
Le Mans Master
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From: Madison (Huntsville) Alabama
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St. Jude Donor '09
There's a Phillips 66 station near me that has premium non-ethanol gasoline that I'm going to try on the next fillup and see how it affects gas mileage. I know on my C5, when I first got it, no ethanol was the standard, and while I had the car everybody started adding it. And my gas mileage fell about 10% and the car didn't run as well after corn squeezins were added.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
St. Jude Donor '13
I happen to have a bottle of AC Delco Fuel System Treatment + in my garage, so I went and took a look. It says to use a bottle "at every oil change" ... doesn't state whether before or after the oil change. But my thoughts are that it doesn't matter if you do it before or after; that interval is just as a reminder to use the stuff. It goes on to say that "maximum benefit is obtained when used every 3,000 miles." It didn't say if the "benefit" was for your car or GM's wallet ....
I didn't see Chevron mentioned on the label though ... no logo and no use of the word. But the bottles are identical; they just have a different label. I think they're the same product. It says one benefit is for fuels that have a high sulfur content and it corrects the fuel gage malfunctions caused by the sulphur.
There's also a product by DuraLube that claims to treat 40 gallons (as opposed to the 20 for the same amount of the AC Delco stuff or Techron). They refer to it as a super cleaner with twice the strength or some such. Probably all hype compared to the others. I put a bottle in my truck with 92000 miles and can't tell any difference in the way it runs.
I didn't see Chevron mentioned on the label though ... no logo and no use of the word. But the bottles are identical; they just have a different label. I think they're the same product. It says one benefit is for fuels that have a high sulfur content and it corrects the fuel gage malfunctions caused by the sulphur.
There's also a product by DuraLube that claims to treat 40 gallons (as opposed to the 20 for the same amount of the AC Delco stuff or Techron). They refer to it as a super cleaner with twice the strength or some such. Probably all hype compared to the others. I put a bottle in my truck with 92000 miles and can't tell any difference in the way it runs.
Someone said there are two different products from Chevron that are labeled "Techron", is that correct?
Even if they were free, I wouldn't use any of those products every 3k miles unless I was forced to use really crummy gas.
Le Mans Master
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From: Currently somewhere in IL,IN,KY,TN,MO,AR,MS,AL, or FL
http://www.hessh.de/Corvette/FuelTankSystem.pdf
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Drifting
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Jupiter Fl
The thing about additives is that they all contain the exact same cleaning ingrediants found in major gasoline brands. The reason they dont seem to work is if you have been using a good quality top tier brand of fuel, your injectors are as clean as they are going to get to function as they should. Extra cleaning does nothing but wastes your money. Onthe other hand, if you have been using low grade fuel for a while, those fuels can and will eventually degrade the injectors to the point where performance and milage will degrade, at that point just about any name brand cleaner will show a differance after a couple of tanks have been used. Better yet if you use Chevron, every 4th or 5 tank, change to shell for a couple of tanks, then back to Chevron, then try 76 or Mobil. This will gain you the advantages of all the major brands of fuel cleaners, with out having to pay any extra!!
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
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BZZZZZZZZT WRONG! There are TWO fuel level senders. One in the right tank and one in the left. The gauge on the dash is the sum of the two levels. The fuel pump takes ALL of the gas out of the right tank before removing ANY from the left. So what you are doing by refilling at half a tank is running the right tank sensor from full to empty and back while never moving the left tank sensor allowing it to corrode is a single spot. To always keep both sensors submerged all the time you would have to stop for gas every few miles.
http://www.hessh.de/Corvette/FuelTankSystem.pdf
http://www.hessh.de/Corvette/FuelTankSystem.pdf
Right or wrong, don't matter to me. But I do know you often like to point out how "Wrong" others are here on the forum.
I will continue to fill my tanks, not only on the C6 but all my cars and motorcycle. I have changed out a few pumps in over 6 decades of playing with motor toys and know simply keep tank filled can extend the change outs.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Currently somewhere in IL,IN,KY,TN,MO,AR,MS,AL, or FL
And yes, you are correct that keeping a fuel pump (not level sensor) always cool with gas will extend their life. What you fail to understand is there is only one electrical pump in the left tank. The left tank is always 100% full until the right tank is totally empty. So as far as your new excuse of keeping the fuel pump cool, again, it would make no difference if you filled the tanks at half on the gauge or every mile down the road. You're keeping your left tank 100% full at all times. GM designed the car with 2 tanks expecting people to use fuel from both of them. Don't go crazy driving 40 miles past "E" or you WILL burn up the fuel pump eventually but refilling at half a tank is a waste of time and does more damage to the fuel sensor (you're original reason) than refilling at 1/4 on the gauge.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Madison (Huntsville) Alabama
CI 6-7-8 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '09
BZZZZZZZZT WRONG! There are TWO fuel level senders. One in the right tank and one in the left. The gauge on the dash is the sum of the two levels. The fuel pump takes ALL of the gas out of the right tank before removing ANY from the left. So what you are doing by refilling at half a tank is running the right tank sensor from full to empty and back while never moving the left tank sensor allowing it to corrode is a single spot. To always keep both sensors submerged all the time you would have to stop for gas every few miles.
http://www.hessh.de/Corvette/FuelTankSystem.pdf
http://www.hessh.de/Corvette/FuelTankSystem.pdf
Sounds good, but I'm almost positive he was wrong. He was wrong on the moisture (turned out to be the MAS and a couple of loose vacuum hoses), and I think the crossfeed is on the top, not the bottom.
So I think you're correct. Sometimes the dealers (and others too, of course) tell you something to save face even when they don't know the answer to a question. And often times what they tell you is incorrect.
Le Mans Master
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From: Madison (Huntsville) Alabama
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St. Jude Donor '09
Thanks for the research. My last bottle of the GM stuff had a small Chevron symbol embossed into the plastic on the bottom, nothing on the label itself.
Someone said there are two different products from Chevron that are labeled "Techron", is that correct?
Even if they were free, I wouldn't use any of those products every 3k miles unless I was forced to use really crummy gas.
Someone said there are two different products from Chevron that are labeled "Techron", is that correct?
Even if they were free, I wouldn't use any of those products every 3k miles unless I was forced to use really crummy gas.
I don't know whether Chevron has two different products or not. I've heard some refer to the product as "Techroline" but I think they may be just mispronouncing Techron.
As I mentioned, the 20 gallon treatment Techron bottle at Wal Mart is about 1/3 the cost of what the Chevrolet dealer sells. Kind of a no-brainer as to which to buy if one chooses to use the product.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Currently somewhere in IL,IN,KY,TN,MO,AR,MS,AL, or FL
That's exactly the opposite of what the service manager at my dealer told me. The reason I asked is that he told me my car was running rough because of "low fuel volatility" which he attributed to moisture in the gas. He said I should add a bottle of AC Delco Fuel System Plus, so I asked would it only go into one tank, or go into both. He chuckled and said the tanks empty equally, so one bottle would go into both tanks because of the crossfeed on the bottom of the two tanks. He said the emptying method was to keep weight balanced from side to side.
Sounds good, but I'm almost positive he was wrong. He was wrong on the moisture (turned out to be the MAS and a couple of loose vacuum hoses), and I think the crossfeed is on the top, not the bottom.
So I think you're correct. Sometimes the dealers (and others too, of course) tell you something to save face even when they don't know the answer to a question. And often times what they tell you is incorrect.
Sounds good, but I'm almost positive he was wrong. He was wrong on the moisture (turned out to be the MAS and a couple of loose vacuum hoses), and I think the crossfeed is on the top, not the bottom.
So I think you're correct. Sometimes the dealers (and others too, of course) tell you something to save face even when they don't know the answer to a question. And often times what they tell you is incorrect.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,576
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From: Murphy NC
I started using 10w-40 at 75K... Mobile 1 High Mileage. There is a noticeable difference when the oil is fresh.
The engine feel tight, again.
Every couple of months I add the Techron additive to the gas.
Every few thousand miles I add some Marvel's Mystery Oil to the gas.
My engine runs great!
Knock on wood. Something will break, now.
The engine feel tight, again.
Every couple of months I add the Techron additive to the gas.
Every few thousand miles I add some Marvel's Mystery Oil to the gas.
My engine runs great!
Knock on wood. Something will break, now.
Race Director
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From: Toronto, Canada
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
I couldn't find the 20 gallon treatment bottle at Walmart, had to get from Advance Auto (2 for 1 deal)
Gearhead, you are exactly right. When I looked before I was only looking at the label. But this time I looked on the bottom, and, sure enough, there's the Chevron logo and the word "Chevron" embossed on the bottom of the bottle. That leads credence to the bottles being identical, and probably the product inside.
I don't know whether Chevron has two different products or not. I've heard some refer to the product as "Techroline" but I think they may be just mispronouncing Techron.
As I mentioned, the 20 gallon treatment Techron bottle at Wal Mart is about 1/3 the cost of what the Chevrolet dealer sells. Kind of a no-brainer as to which to buy if one chooses to use the product.
I don't know whether Chevron has two different products or not. I've heard some refer to the product as "Techroline" but I think they may be just mispronouncing Techron.
As I mentioned, the 20 gallon treatment Techron bottle at Wal Mart is about 1/3 the cost of what the Chevrolet dealer sells. Kind of a no-brainer as to which to buy if one chooses to use the product.
Premium Supporting Vendor
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From: King George VA
I run this through my 02 Z06 at the start of every race season and in my daily drivers about every 4k miles:
AMSOIL P.I. Performance Improver (Product Code APICN)
I do not use any additives in engine oil.
AMSOIL P.I. Performance Improver (Product Code APICN)
I do not use any additives in engine oil.
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
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Obviously you don't. That's the point. You and I aren't the only ones reading this forum. When someone makes a totally incorrect comment that will waste other's time and money if they believe the information given, I'm going to point out the error with the facts. Sorry if you got caught in the fact checking but you're just going to have to deal with it.
And yes, you are correct that keeping a fuel pump (not level sensor) always cool with gas will extend their life. What you fail to understand is there is only one electrical pump in the left tank. The left tank is always 100% full until the right tank is totally empty. So as far as your new excuse of keeping the fuel pump cool, again, it would make no difference if you filled the tanks at half on the gauge or every mile down the road. You're keeping your left tank 100% full at all times. GM designed the car with 2 tanks expecting people to use fuel from both of them. Don't go crazy driving 40 miles past "E" or you WILL burn up the fuel pump eventually but refilling at half a tank is a waste of time and does more damage to the fuel sensor (you're original reason) than refilling at 1/4 on the gauge.
And yes, you are correct that keeping a fuel pump (not level sensor) always cool with gas will extend their life. What you fail to understand is there is only one electrical pump in the left tank. The left tank is always 100% full until the right tank is totally empty. So as far as your new excuse of keeping the fuel pump cool, again, it would make no difference if you filled the tanks at half on the gauge or every mile down the road. You're keeping your left tank 100% full at all times. GM designed the car with 2 tanks expecting people to use fuel from both of them. Don't go crazy driving 40 miles past "E" or you WILL burn up the fuel pump eventually but refilling at half a tank is a waste of time and does more damage to the fuel sensor (you're original reason) than refilling at 1/4 on the gauge.
I have read and understood functionality of Corvette fuel system from various published articles along with FSM. As well as forum member Motorhead47's well documented version of dropping C6 fuel tanks for repairs. In fact, in anticipation for the eventual repair, I've made these to help make the job easier:
But, I still want to extend the change out or repairs as long as possible buy doing whatever as reasonable as I could to help.
Maybe I was misunderstood in regards to the good habit of always keeping gas tanks no less than 1/2 tank. It was not to implied while on the road. It was to when car is put to sleep so no space is left unfilled in tank. Anyone plays with motor toys certainly knows what effects stale gas can do. Especially with non DDs.
Last edited by victorf; Jul 30, 2013 at 03:57 PM.