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To downshift or not downshift?
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 22,518
Likes: 1,688
From: South Carolina
All the concern for saving clutch and bearing wear must make the "coasters" really appreciate the 1-4 skip shift concept. Just think, that feature used correctly can save 50 percent of the shifts between 1st and 4th. Another approach would be to start in 2nd, which we all know is easy to do in these cars, and then go right to 5th.
I love the irony lol...Think of all the wear you could save just coasting down using no engine and brakes....Hell, might as well just walk and leave the car at home.
If you could measure all the added wear on the clutch and engine using down shifting it would take a million miles for it to be enough to see...
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 45,380
Likes: 892
From: Texas
CI 1-4-5-8-9-10 Vet
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '10, '17
Gotcha, need-for-speed; and I drive mostly like you do.
The OP was asking about city driving, like what to do when heading down the street at 35, and seeing a need to stop coming up. He asked "Do most of you downshift when coming to a stop during city driving?"
And what I wanted to explain (but really am realizing I am getting too repetitive so this will be last effort!) is that I do not do that by staying in 3rd or 4th gear, and then just coasting in neutral as the actual stop point becomes clear. I will go down to 2nd, somewhere along that slowing down period, because I strongly prefer to be in a gear until fully stopped or very, very nearly so. If I am creeping ahead at 2 to 4 MPH for example, I slide it right into first at times, even.
Ok, think I'm done. The OP is long lost, having never posted again. And the coasters will still go into neutral and save their throw-out bearings, and de-emphasize a great part of the reason to have a manual transmission.
The OP was asking about city driving, like what to do when heading down the street at 35, and seeing a need to stop coming up. He asked "Do most of you downshift when coming to a stop during city driving?"
And what I wanted to explain (but really am realizing I am getting too repetitive so this will be last effort!) is that I do not do that by staying in 3rd or 4th gear, and then just coasting in neutral as the actual stop point becomes clear. I will go down to 2nd, somewhere along that slowing down period, because I strongly prefer to be in a gear until fully stopped or very, very nearly so. If I am creeping ahead at 2 to 4 MPH for example, I slide it right into first at times, even.
Ok, think I'm done. The OP is long lost, having never posted again. And the coasters will still go into neutral and save their throw-out bearings, and de-emphasize a great part of the reason to have a manual transmission.
I think our approaches are similar. It's just the keyboard typing where we differ. I do the same as you. If I'm slowing down in an area with other trafic, I definitley make sure it's in a gear appropriate for the current speed (2nd gear is one of the best "all around") even if the clutch is depressed. Just in case........
When people ask about downshifting, I usually associate that with engine braking, right or wrong
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 45,380
Likes: 892
From: Texas
CI 1-4-5-8-9-10 Vet
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '10, '17
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 171
From: Missouri
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
All the concern for saving clutch and bearing wear must make the "coasters" really appreciate the 1-4 skip shift concept. Just think, that feature used correctly can save 50 percent of the shifts between 1st and 4th. Another approach would be to start in 2nd, which we all know is easy to do in these cars, and then go right to 5th.
/rant.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
In city driving I downshift most of the time,as I love the sound of my open NPP. I have been doing this as long as I have been driving sticks. As for sport driving thru the mountains on curvy roads,it just gives you better command and feel for the road. Its a no-brainer,we have sports cars. If everyone is shook up about wear on your clutch or tranny,perhaps you should get a 4-dr sedan.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,388
Likes: 137
From: Ahead of You :)
St. Jude Donor '14
Ok, so are saying they achieve engine braking by leaving it in 4th, for example, and taking their foot off the throttle, and not depressing the clutch until the engine begins to bog. Right? That what you're thinking? And then, there's no more engine braking effect once the clutch goes in or the car is put into neutral.
I gave it a try. I hated the helpless feeling of arriving at the end of a line of stopped cars in neutral with no ability to give it a little punch to move up, or change lanes, or otherwise have a shot at getting out of the way if something not-so-good developed. Just my age-old style, I guess. I will keep on with the habit of dropping in to 2nd for an approaching stop.
I gave it a try. I hated the helpless feeling of arriving at the end of a line of stopped cars in neutral with no ability to give it a little punch to move up, or change lanes, or otherwise have a shot at getting out of the way if something not-so-good developed. Just my age-old style, I guess. I will keep on with the habit of dropping in to 2nd for an approaching stop.
To comment on your last paragraph...
If you can't figure out on the fly which gear to quickly slap your car into at any given speed you shouldn't be driving your car. After owning my car for a week I knew which gear to be in at what speed at any given time while "coasting" as you'd put it.
8th Gear
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Montréal Québec
I downshift.
My first road vehicle was a motorcycle, a Honda 750 Four 1972. Any big engine motorcycle has so much compression torque compared to its weight that it can be driven without ever using the brakes other than for full stops and emergency situations. If you are not careful with revving the engine to sync with the wheel you can easily get the rear tire to slip off the road when downshifting. So, I got very good at downshifting, syncing the engine with the wheel, and I enjoyed everything about it; the sound, the feel, the skill it takes and the pleasure of controlling the engine and using it for every phase of the ride.
Downshifting is the #1 reason why I prefer to have a manual transmission.
I do downshift with my G35 in semi-auto mode all the times, too (manual trans was not available with the X drive option) and it does rev matching very well. But that is not the same control and not the same feeling as with a manual transmission.
My first road vehicle was a motorcycle, a Honda 750 Four 1972. Any big engine motorcycle has so much compression torque compared to its weight that it can be driven without ever using the brakes other than for full stops and emergency situations. If you are not careful with revving the engine to sync with the wheel you can easily get the rear tire to slip off the road when downshifting. So, I got very good at downshifting, syncing the engine with the wheel, and I enjoyed everything about it; the sound, the feel, the skill it takes and the pleasure of controlling the engine and using it for every phase of the ride.
Downshifting is the #1 reason why I prefer to have a manual transmission.
I do downshift with my G35 in semi-auto mode all the times, too (manual trans was not available with the X drive option) and it does rev matching very well. But that is not the same control and not the same feeling as with a manual transmission.
Last edited by rejdrouin; Dec 14, 2013 at 05:51 PM.
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8th Gear
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Montréal Québec
The problem is solved now ; I own a Grand Sport 2011 with an M6
I do agree that downshifting puts more wear on the transmission but how much ? I say that it is insignificant because the manual trans are designed to be used that way hence they can sustain that without damage for the lifetime of the car.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
I never downshift when coming to a clear stop . . . pop it in neutral, coast and brake as needed. Easiest on the clutch, least work for me, and probably most fuel efficient way to stop.
I always downshift, and even try to rev-match, when I enter a curve that requires a slower entry speed than I am travelling . . . and then I accelerate out before up shifting again.
I've been driving manual transmissions for over 30 years. Why anyone would want to go through all the effort to downshift several times just to stop, when simple friction while coasting in neutral will do almost the same thing with no effort.
On the other hand, why anyone would use the brakes entering a curve when you can power through it with good downshifting is also puzzling and a big part of the fun driving a manual.
I always downshift, and even try to rev-match, when I enter a curve that requires a slower entry speed than I am travelling . . . and then I accelerate out before up shifting again.
I've been driving manual transmissions for over 30 years. Why anyone would want to go through all the effort to downshift several times just to stop, when simple friction while coasting in neutral will do almost the same thing with no effort.
On the other hand, why anyone would use the brakes entering a curve when you can power through it with good downshifting is also puzzling and a big part of the fun driving a manual.
but it is illegal in some countries to coast in neutral..
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 937
Likes: 70
From: Ponte Vedra Florida
I've been driving standard shift my entire drive time, from age sixteen to age 64. Drove a truck for 15 years, good friend drove same truck another 10 years, never had to replace clutch. Never had to replace a clutch in anything, including my Corvette. I always downshift but NEVER "dump" the clutch out in a downshift. 
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg NC
I generally downshift while approaching traffic lights, hoping they turn green before I come to a complete stop. I'll downshift a gear or two before braking the rest of the way to a stop sign.
Last edited by tmccowan; Dec 14, 2013 at 09:22 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Victoria BC
Always downshift except in some circumstances. It's all about control and the ability to accelerate hard on demand.
You'll get more clutch wear using the clutch as a "dead-pedal" than correct downshifting practice.
Someone commented that you use less fuel coasting and braking to a stop in neutral. Well that is wrong, modern fuel injection systems shut off fuel when engine braking. This fact also should alleviate the fear of excessive engine wear when engine braking, I thought that old wives tale was put to rest years ago!
BTW, you aren't competitive racing a stick unless you master heel-toe braking downshifting technique.
You'll get more clutch wear using the clutch as a "dead-pedal" than correct downshifting practice.
Someone commented that you use less fuel coasting and braking to a stop in neutral. Well that is wrong, modern fuel injection systems shut off fuel when engine braking. This fact also should alleviate the fear of excessive engine wear when engine braking, I thought that old wives tale was put to rest years ago!
BTW, you aren't competitive racing a stick unless you master heel-toe braking downshifting technique.
Last edited by Grok; Dec 14, 2013 at 10:09 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 465
2013 427 6 spd vert. Do most of you downshift when coming to a stop during city driving? Or just use the brakes to slow down and then shift back into first once stopped? I am thinking that downshifting may reduce brake pad wear. However I am wondering if it increases clutch wear. Please share your preferences and thoughts. Thanks.