Car ownership will decrease in the future . . .
Pro
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 615
Likes: 20
From: San Francisco CA
In the farther future, when we are able to "download" things from a human brain, it might be possible to do what you suggest. We could then get behind the wheel of a real race car and do hot laps around a track in complete safety (barring a mechanical failure), allowing us to experience what it feels like. I know I'd pay to do that. However, I recently watched a TV show in which a race driver took a guy out for laps on a road course in a hot street car, and the passenger threw up when he got out. I bet all those G forces are hard on the body.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 294
From: Texas
Originally Posted by vertigogo
Sweet! On the other hand, I'd probably have to change my underwear every time I went anywhere, heheh.
In the farther future, when we are able to "download" things from a human brain, it might be possible to do what you suggest. We could then get behind the wheel of a real race car and do hot laps around a track in complete safety (barring a mechanical failure), allowing us to experience what it feels like. I know I'd pay to do that. However, I recently watched a TV show in which a race driver took a guy out for laps on a road course in a hot street car, and the passenger threw up when he got out. I bet all those G forces are hard on the body.
In the farther future, when we are able to "download" things from a human brain, it might be possible to do what you suggest. We could then get behind the wheel of a real race car and do hot laps around a track in complete safety (barring a mechanical failure), allowing us to experience what it feels like. I know I'd pay to do that. However, I recently watched a TV show in which a race driver took a guy out for laps on a road course in a hot street car, and the passenger threw up when he got out. I bet all those G forces are hard on the body.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 615
Likes: 20
From: San Francisco CA
No, but I read an article in a car magazine about a pro race driver who rode as a passenger in an autonomous car first, and then drove a nearly identical car on the same track. The human was able to make better decisions about braking and the racing line. However, it was interesting that the autonomous car was able to do so well, despite the fact that so little development has gone into such cars in racing applications. The pro driver said he was very impressed. Personally, I would be bored to watch autonomous cars race. Without human drivers, and the attendant danger, it would have no real attraction for me. I guess it could be a good way for auto makers to test their cars against the competition, though, without the risk of using human drivers.
Last edited by vertigogo; Jan 11, 2016 at 12:27 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 859
Likes: 14
From: Arizona
In post #53, *TRIP* states: “there are so many things that nobody is talking about”. I totally agree and IMO, a major point that everyone is disregarding is how many potentially fatal accidents are “AVOIDED” each year because of safe alert drivers that: “ANTICIPATE” a dangerous situation and take appropriate action, be it applying the brake, turning the steering wheel, accelerating and/or simply sounding the horn to attract a drivers and/or pedestrians attention.
Unfortunately, all the discussion seems to be focused around the stupid, distracted drivers that have either caused or failed to avoid an accident! Rather than banning some of the distractions such as hand held phones and text messaging, the solution is to make autonomous vehicles and take the safe driver out of the equation!
In my 50+ years of safe accident free driving, I personally have successfully avoided each and every one of the potentially dangerous scenarios I described by paying attention and “ANTICIPATING” what could possibly go wrong!
Vertigo, given your location, I respectfully question if you’re not giving the capabilities of autonomous vehicles too much credit and unquestionably accepting all of the hype and data coming of Silicon Valley hard fast fact? Remember, there are billions of dollars at stake, so I don’t think that it is stretching the imagination too very much to think that there just may be some data fudging. I have rebutted
some of your responses to my driving scenarios and have highlighted my rebuttal in red.
*Will the “so called” intuitive autonomous car going to be able to instinctively realize that the load on the flatbed truck you are passing is unstable and about to tumble into your lane?
Probably not (for time years), but it will safely brake the car once the obstacle becomes visible.
Once the obstacle’ become visible….”may be too late”!
This actually happened to me while starting to pass a truck loaded with empty pallets going approximately 75MPH on Interstate 10. I saw a binder come loose and the load shift….I hit the go pedal to get out of there and to safely witness (through my rear view mirror) a row of pallets falling into the left lane.
If I had “braked” as you suggest an autonomous vehicle would react, a couple of pallets may have bounced through my windshield! Additionally, if I had braked, I would have run the risk of being rear-ended by fast moving traffic!
A human driver is capable of assessing, “rear risks” as well as front and side and take appropriate action; I question if an autonomous vehicles will ever have “REAR-END” risk assessment capability?
*Will the autonomous car see a ball in the street and ask it’s self if a child is about dart into traffic to retrieve that ball?
Yes, definitely.
You’re probably correct, I think that this most likely is the capabilities of an autonomous vehicle. When I encountered this situation, I put my 4-ways on to alert drivers behind me, then proceed slowly and when I actually saw the young child running toward the ball, I stopped, blocking traffic until the child safely retrieved the ball, thus protecting the child from be hit by other motorists. I’m not so sure that an autonomous vehicle would react in the same manner?
*Will an autonomous car see a child’s shadow from behind a parked car and ask it’s self if there is child about to cross the street?
I'm not sure. Probably not right now.
I’m doubtful that an autonomous vehicle will ever possess that degree of situational awareness!
*Will an autonomous car position you alongside and in the blind spot of an 18 wheeler?
Not if it has been programmed to avoid such situations, which seems likely.
I would like to think it programmer’s would NOT expose their vehicles occupants to that kind of jeopardy!
*Will an autonomous car position you alongside an 18 wheeler with a tire that appears to blow any second?
I personally would be unable to detect that myself.
Not accurate! Not if you look for those kind of potentially hazardous situations! I was passing an 18 wheeler that had a bold/frayed sidewall with a small piece of rubber flapping on his outer trailer tire; I accelerated and got out of there as quick as I could.
Because a Vette is so low, it is much easier to observe these things but also much more dangerous because if the tire blew, it most likely would come through the side window.
I guess tire awareness comes from my motorcycle training.
*Will the autonomous car be able to detect that kid in the car alongside of you is not paying attention because he/she is texting?
[B]Probably not, but again, the car would take evasive action if that other car veered into my lane, faster than I could myself. And when I drive, I am looking ahead, not at the driver next to me.
[/B]#1: A good safe driver will have constant situational awareness of all quadrants of the vehicle at all times. #2: If you observe other drivers driving, you can “ANTICIPATE” potential problems, thus avoiding the necessity to taking evasive action!
*Will the autonomous car be able to detect that the driver of the vehicle in front of you is drug/alcohol impaired?
Yes, for sure. That's easy to program.
Good! Glad to hear that.
*Will the autonomous car be able to determine that a passenger in your car is having a medical emergency and that it imperative that change course and speed up?
No, current versions would not.
Not being able to accelerate in excess of the posted speed limit or deviate from the programed destination could in my example present a life threating situation.
*Will an autonomous car be able to determine that the “Gang Bangers” standing on the over pass are about to dump a refrigerator on to the expressway?
Nope, but by the time you see the refrigerator falling, it's too late for you anyway.
Note accurate! In the mid-70’s while driving in the center lane of Chicago’s Dan Ryan Expressway, I observed a group of guys hoisting a refrigerator on to the overpass rail and about to toss it onto my lane. I sped up, veered as far right as I could get and got the hell out of there before I would be a victim.
Sounds like this just one more example of a human being able to react were a computer can’t!
*While stopped at a stop light, will the autonomous car recognize that it should take evasive action because someone is attempting to car-jack you?
That's outside the scope of what an autonomous car does. It's still up to you in that case.
Another example autonomous vehicle not being able to perform a simple task that could save the life of the occupants.
*Will the Google powered GPS be able to take you off-road?
I don't know, but again, that's not really the purpose of autonomous cars. I see no good reason for using the technology for that purpose.
In my opinion, unless is versatile and you can the vehicle any way you want….it is useless!
*Will the autonomous car be able to respond to the millions of other driving scenarios that human drivers instinctively and safely reacts to on a daily basis?
Yes, only better.
That is obviously not accurate and just more of the promoter’s hype!
Jim, I'll remind you that no one has any current plans to make a car that cannot be manually driven. So in all of the above situations, you would still be free to intervene whenever you wanted.
That is not accurate! It was Googles desire to build a driverless vehicle that would be 100% autonomous, completely void of any manual controls such as steering wheel, brakes and accelerator pedal.
Google was upset when California announced that it would mandate that ALL vehicles have a full set of manual controls. If rumors are correct, immediately after the CA announcement, decided that instead of producing its own autonomous vehicle, it would partner with the Ford Motor Company and supply Ford with computers and software. Only time will tell if the rumors are accurate.
Just today (01/11/1016) Elon Musk, Tesla CEO announced that in the next two (2) years, he plans to have a driverless vehicle with a feature that will allow an owner in New York to call his car located in California and the car will drive its self to New York without any human input what so ever.
If legislator allow this to happen, this technology would not only be scary dangerous but could also have an extremely serious negative societal impact and drastically effect our economy! Mercedes-Benz is developing a driverless commercial 18 wheeler that they claim will be on the roads within 5 years. Imagine how many good paying truck driver, bus driver jobs, Uber jobs, etc., etc. could be lost to a computer and the economic impact this could have on our economy.
Folks this serious stuff and we all need to get off our collective butts and tell our legislators that autonomous vehicles is technology run amuck! I afraid that if you are complacent and wait until this technology impacts you personally by taking the life of a loved one or costing you your job….it may just be too darn late!
Jim
Unfortunately, all the discussion seems to be focused around the stupid, distracted drivers that have either caused or failed to avoid an accident! Rather than banning some of the distractions such as hand held phones and text messaging, the solution is to make autonomous vehicles and take the safe driver out of the equation!
In my 50+ years of safe accident free driving, I personally have successfully avoided each and every one of the potentially dangerous scenarios I described by paying attention and “ANTICIPATING” what could possibly go wrong!
Vertigo, given your location, I respectfully question if you’re not giving the capabilities of autonomous vehicles too much credit and unquestionably accepting all of the hype and data coming of Silicon Valley hard fast fact? Remember, there are billions of dollars at stake, so I don’t think that it is stretching the imagination too very much to think that there just may be some data fudging. I have rebutted
some of your responses to my driving scenarios and have highlighted my rebuttal in red.
*Will the “so called” intuitive autonomous car going to be able to instinctively realize that the load on the flatbed truck you are passing is unstable and about to tumble into your lane?
Probably not (for time years), but it will safely brake the car once the obstacle becomes visible.
Once the obstacle’ become visible….”may be too late”!
This actually happened to me while starting to pass a truck loaded with empty pallets going approximately 75MPH on Interstate 10. I saw a binder come loose and the load shift….I hit the go pedal to get out of there and to safely witness (through my rear view mirror) a row of pallets falling into the left lane.
If I had “braked” as you suggest an autonomous vehicle would react, a couple of pallets may have bounced through my windshield! Additionally, if I had braked, I would have run the risk of being rear-ended by fast moving traffic!
A human driver is capable of assessing, “rear risks” as well as front and side and take appropriate action; I question if an autonomous vehicles will ever have “REAR-END” risk assessment capability?
*Will the autonomous car see a ball in the street and ask it’s self if a child is about dart into traffic to retrieve that ball?
Yes, definitely.
You’re probably correct, I think that this most likely is the capabilities of an autonomous vehicle. When I encountered this situation, I put my 4-ways on to alert drivers behind me, then proceed slowly and when I actually saw the young child running toward the ball, I stopped, blocking traffic until the child safely retrieved the ball, thus protecting the child from be hit by other motorists. I’m not so sure that an autonomous vehicle would react in the same manner?
*Will an autonomous car see a child’s shadow from behind a parked car and ask it’s self if there is child about to cross the street?
I'm not sure. Probably not right now.
I’m doubtful that an autonomous vehicle will ever possess that degree of situational awareness!
*Will an autonomous car position you alongside and in the blind spot of an 18 wheeler?
Not if it has been programmed to avoid such situations, which seems likely.
I would like to think it programmer’s would NOT expose their vehicles occupants to that kind of jeopardy!
*Will an autonomous car position you alongside an 18 wheeler with a tire that appears to blow any second?
I personally would be unable to detect that myself.
Not accurate! Not if you look for those kind of potentially hazardous situations! I was passing an 18 wheeler that had a bold/frayed sidewall with a small piece of rubber flapping on his outer trailer tire; I accelerated and got out of there as quick as I could.
Because a Vette is so low, it is much easier to observe these things but also much more dangerous because if the tire blew, it most likely would come through the side window.
I guess tire awareness comes from my motorcycle training.
*Will the autonomous car be able to detect that kid in the car alongside of you is not paying attention because he/she is texting?
[B]Probably not, but again, the car would take evasive action if that other car veered into my lane, faster than I could myself. And when I drive, I am looking ahead, not at the driver next to me.
[/B]#1: A good safe driver will have constant situational awareness of all quadrants of the vehicle at all times. #2: If you observe other drivers driving, you can “ANTICIPATE” potential problems, thus avoiding the necessity to taking evasive action!
*Will the autonomous car be able to detect that the driver of the vehicle in front of you is drug/alcohol impaired?
Yes, for sure. That's easy to program.
Good! Glad to hear that.
*Will the autonomous car be able to determine that a passenger in your car is having a medical emergency and that it imperative that change course and speed up?
No, current versions would not.
Not being able to accelerate in excess of the posted speed limit or deviate from the programed destination could in my example present a life threating situation.
*Will an autonomous car be able to determine that the “Gang Bangers” standing on the over pass are about to dump a refrigerator on to the expressway?
Nope, but by the time you see the refrigerator falling, it's too late for you anyway.
Note accurate! In the mid-70’s while driving in the center lane of Chicago’s Dan Ryan Expressway, I observed a group of guys hoisting a refrigerator on to the overpass rail and about to toss it onto my lane. I sped up, veered as far right as I could get and got the hell out of there before I would be a victim.
Sounds like this just one more example of a human being able to react were a computer can’t!
*While stopped at a stop light, will the autonomous car recognize that it should take evasive action because someone is attempting to car-jack you?
That's outside the scope of what an autonomous car does. It's still up to you in that case.
Another example autonomous vehicle not being able to perform a simple task that could save the life of the occupants.
*Will the Google powered GPS be able to take you off-road?
I don't know, but again, that's not really the purpose of autonomous cars. I see no good reason for using the technology for that purpose.
In my opinion, unless is versatile and you can the vehicle any way you want….it is useless!
*Will the autonomous car be able to respond to the millions of other driving scenarios that human drivers instinctively and safely reacts to on a daily basis?
Yes, only better.
That is obviously not accurate and just more of the promoter’s hype!
Jim, I'll remind you that no one has any current plans to make a car that cannot be manually driven. So in all of the above situations, you would still be free to intervene whenever you wanted.
That is not accurate! It was Googles desire to build a driverless vehicle that would be 100% autonomous, completely void of any manual controls such as steering wheel, brakes and accelerator pedal.
Google was upset when California announced that it would mandate that ALL vehicles have a full set of manual controls. If rumors are correct, immediately after the CA announcement, decided that instead of producing its own autonomous vehicle, it would partner with the Ford Motor Company and supply Ford with computers and software. Only time will tell if the rumors are accurate.
Just today (01/11/1016) Elon Musk, Tesla CEO announced that in the next two (2) years, he plans to have a driverless vehicle with a feature that will allow an owner in New York to call his car located in California and the car will drive its self to New York without any human input what so ever.
If legislator allow this to happen, this technology would not only be scary dangerous but could also have an extremely serious negative societal impact and drastically effect our economy! Mercedes-Benz is developing a driverless commercial 18 wheeler that they claim will be on the roads within 5 years. Imagine how many good paying truck driver, bus driver jobs, Uber jobs, etc., etc. could be lost to a computer and the economic impact this could have on our economy.
Folks this serious stuff and we all need to get off our collective butts and tell our legislators that autonomous vehicles is technology run amuck! I afraid that if you are complacent and wait until this technology impacts you personally by taking the life of a loved one or costing you your job….it may just be too darn late!
Jim
Last edited by TheJimer; Jan 12, 2016 at 08:47 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 615
Likes: 20
From: San Francisco CA
http://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/...ie-in-our-cars
Again, I stress that I personally don't think human-driven cars will become illegal for a very long time, and you and I may indeed be dead before that happens, but it's hard to predict very far into the future. At any rate, I plan to drive my Corvette as long as I can, and I'll wave to you if I pass yours.
