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Creedence85 can you get some rev an fly by videos? I currently have an LS3 based project car that is x-piped and has high flow cats with small mufflers similar to this Blackheart kit. It is in my mind unfortunately the opposite of what I'm looking for - horrid cross plane v8 drone around 2000 +/- rpm, but smooth and actually pretty quiet 3000+ rpm. Makes it not very streetable.
When you say you have "drone" at 2000 rpm that worries me that the Helmholtz resonators aren't doing their job or they are sized to attenuate a higher pitched (Hz) range (to leave more low muscle car sound?) The mufflers on that system are probably some form of glass pack and will only attenuate higher pitched noise.
As someone pointed out, too much or to little drone is a subjective thing. I think drone is a layman's term for dB in the 110-150 Hz zone and people tend to focus that frequency more as that deep bass will cause resonance. In my case its ear splitting and vibrates stuff in the interior of the car. After doing city driving where I am constantly cruising or shifting in or out of that 1700-2300 rpm zone, my ears will ring post ride.
Creedence85 can you get some rev an fly by videos? I currently have an LS3 based project car that is x-piped and has high flow cats with small mufflers similar to this Blackheart kit. It is in my mind unfortunately the opposite of what I'm looking for - horrid cross plane v8 drone around 2000 +/- rpm, but smooth and actually pretty quiet 3000+ rpm. Makes it not very streetable.
When you say you have "drone" at 2000 rpm that worries me that the Helmholtz resonators aren't doing their job or they are sized to attenuate a higher pitched (Hz) range (to leave more low muscle car sound?) The mufflers on that system are probably some form of glass pack and will only attenuate higher pitched noise.
As someone pointed out, too much or to little drone is a subjective thing. I think drone is a layman's term for dB in the 110-150 Hz zone and people tend to focus that frequency more as that deep bass will cause resonance. In my case its ear splitting and vibrates stuff in the interior of the car. After doing city driving where I am constantly cruising or shifting in or out of that 1700-2300 rpm zone, my ears will ring post ride.
All my previous reviews were the first couple days the exhaust was installed, so it wasn't broken in. It's been about a month, about 800 KM (500 miles) of driving, and is starting to sound like it's well on its way to being broken in, as my previous reviews were within the first couple days after install.
Cold start is less barky than before, and there is more space between the pulses. The 2000 RPM resonance is only there while cold and disappears fairly quick. I drove the other night front cold start at 8C (46F) and again the following morning at similar air temperatures, and the resonance was gone when engine oil reached about 25C (77F) or after about 5 minutes of driving.
At cruise with 1500, 2000, and 2500 RPM steady then rolling into the throttle had no drone. 60-80 kph (40-50 mph) is decent, light roll in is good, heavier roll on gives a deeper sound but I don't find it to be drone. 90-120 kph (55-75 mph) cruise on the highway is also decent, with road noise and exhaust noise being at about the same level, so light throttle rolls seem a little quieter than lower speed throttle rolls with the road noise masking some of the exhaust sound. Heavier throttler rolls and higher RPM pulls get into some nice growl sound without being harsh, and it doesn't feel like it gets much louder over 4000 RPM, just changes pitch. On twisty mountain highway, the results are the same, just that the tone gets a bit deeper going uphill, then gets quiet going downhill, with some soft gurgles.
It has gurgle and pop at lower RPM on the downrev, though I wouldn't call it more of a gurgle than a pop as it doesn't really snap. It has less pop and snap than a Corsa Sport with stock mid pipe I test drove. When going down hill at 90-110 kph (55-65 mph) off the gas or on cruise control it will gurgle softly. At city speed on the decel from 60 kph (38 mph) down to about 35 kph (20 mph) it makes a nice decel sound, then when you get down to about 35 kph it'll start to gurgle. You could probably scale that up with other speed ranges.
Creedence, thank you for the great review. The other option I was looking at was Corsa as it claims to have anti-drone properties as well. Would you say the sound of the Corsa is higher pitched?
Robstevens, the Corsa is definitely higher pitched at low and part throttle, not as sure about full throttle because I didn't get there with the car I test drove. I also drove the Corsa car warmed up, with the roof off, and it was presumably well broken in, so it's hard to compare. Corsa is noted as being higher pitched than some, having more of a European sound, so I would definitely say the Hookers sound deeper, and live up to the "deep muscle car tone" that they state. Corsa's claim to fame is no drone, and in my research it seems like more people who have drone issues with various exhaust end up going to Corsa, and a high portion of people who pick Corsa initially are happy with it. I was looking at the Corsas, mostly because of their reputation for no drone, and also because it's a proven product that isn't going to have problems, but with the current CAD USD exchange was looking at almost $2000 and the Hooker system worked out to just over $1100 which in my world is more money left in my pockets or more money for other mods.
Here's a recent idle video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JK6Asidp2HQbZ3si9 The video with the Holly test car further back in this thread is fairly accurate to what I'm hearing from mine.
Looking back at the videos here, the Holly videos are pretty accurate to what I'm hearing now on mine.
That's hard to say as the one I drove had the roof out, but I'd probably say when the roof is out of mine it's similar. I installed sound deadening in the rear hatch about a month before I installed the exhaust to help with the road noise so that's going to affect it too. A friend of mine had a C6 with Corsa Extreme mufflers and mid pipe, high flow cats, and LG longtube headers, and it was similar at idle and highway cruise, but definitely had more bark when on the throttle.
OK I have one more massive pain in the butt favor to ask you. Would you be able to take the measurements of the length and pipe diameter of the Helmholtz cans and the section of pipe that connects the resonator cans to the main exhaust pipe on your car? I dont have the room in the back of my project car to just buy the off the shelf exhaust - I'm going to have to fab the resonators. I have your engine, but in this:
That will be a huge pain in the butt because the resonator cans are above the mufflers, so I don't think I can get in there without jacking the car. If someone or a vendor had a system not attached, it would be a lot easier to measure properly.
That will be a huge pain in the butt because the resonator cans are above the mufflers, so I don't think I can get in there without jacking the car. If someone or a vendor had a system not attached, it would be a lot easier to measure properly.
The very first post of this thread includes a good picture of the axle-back system. You might be able to dead-reckon some measurements.
The measurements need to be bang on or it won't hit the correct frequency. The big issue with these types of 1/4 wave and helmholtz resonators is they have a fairly narrow bandwidth.
NPP is the greatest thing since sliced bread, wouldn't be without it
NSF
Agree. Where I live, you will get pulled over for being too loud so it's imperative that you have the ability to quiet things down when needed. Learned that the hard way after I installed a Roush system on my last mustang and got pulled over less than a mile from the shop that did the install. I'm thinking of going with the Corsas with NPP.
I’ve been hemming and hawing over new exhaust for about a year now. First considered Hooker Blackhearts solely based on price for a slightly louder option over stock, but was concerned they might be slightly over the top. You and I have basically the same car, except I replaced the tan top for a black one almost immediately (wanted the lighter tan, two-tone interior vs. black seats, but the black top contrasts better against the yellow paint). I was told a 4 hour job for two people, did it by myself in 2-1/2 (easier than I was led to believe).
I’ve been concerned about excessive loudness while cruising top down and drowning the stereo and navigation, even with the Bose system (I never get that “buffeting” sound people complain about with convertibles, and I don’t have one of those over-priced plexiglas shields behind the seats either).
I want a more aggressive tone I can hear just enough from the cockpit that the stock exhaust can’t provide, but I just can’t justify double the price or more for exhaust such as Corsa, Borla, Billy Boat, etc., despite their good reviews, and some of these do sound like they’d be too loud. I know Hooker’s been around for decades, have had a good reputation in the past, and it’s what everybody sought for back in my high school days. But I was hoping they were going to design something one step down from these due to my fears of excessive rap or rumble at cruising speeds, based on what I’ve heard on YouTube videos.
I think reading your review(s) has tipped the scales to a new purchase. Having the same car and seemingly same driving habits and wives that definitely don’t like it too loud, these might be the ones for me after all! I’ve just been afraid of the “buyer’s remorse” for spending the bucks on something wanted but not “needed” and spending the time installing something that I would soon regret.
Now that you’ve had them a couple years, are you still in love with them? Any regrets whatsoever? Have you since heard others on the street and wished yours sounded like theirs instead? I think I’m about ready to place the order.
I’ve been hemming and hawing over new exhaust for about a year now. First considered Hooker Blackhearts solely based on price for a slightly louder option over stock, but was concerned they might be slightly over the top. I’ve been concerned about excessive loudness while cruising top down and drowning the stereo and navigation, even with the Bose system (I never get that “buffeting” sound people complain about with convertibles, and I don’t have one of those over-priced plexiglas shields behind the seats either).
I want a more aggressive tone I can hear just enough from the cockpit that the stock exhaust can’t provide, but I just can’t justify double the price or more for exhaust such as Corsa, Borla, Billy Boat, etc., despite their good reviews, and some of these do sound like they’d be too loud. I know Hooker’s been around for decades, have had a good reputation in the past, and it’s what everybody sought for back in my high school days. But I was hoping they were going to design something one step down from these due to my fears of excessive rap or rumble at cruising speeds, based on what I’ve heard on YouTube videos.I think reading your review(s) has tipped the scales to a new purchase. Having the same car and seemingly same driving habits and wives that definitely don’t like it too loud, these might be the ones for me after all! I’ve just been afraid of the “buyer’s remorse” for spending the bucks on something wanted but not “needed” and spending the time installing something that I would soon regret.Now that you’ve had them a couple years, are you still in love with them? Any regrets whatsoever? Have you since heard others on the street and wished yours sounded like theirs instead? I think I’m about ready to place the order.
Now that I've lived with the setup for a couple of years... still loving the sound. IMHO, the sound is a tad louder than when first installed -- I'm guessing the system is "broken in" and I'm getting the full monty sound. Still discrete at idle... but when you push the skinny right pedal (hard) -- it's a glorious sound -- and the wife enjoys it too (and she's kind of a "It's too loud" person -- e.g., "Turn down that dang TV!!") I attribute this to the fact that she LIKES the "big sound" when I stomp on the accelerator. Once "at speed" -- the sound level is "just right" IMHO... not too loud... doesn't impact listening to the stereo (Bose) or having a conversation with the top down. (Although, the WindRestrictor is what really helps with conversations when the top is down and speed is above 45-50'ish.)
When I take the Vert to Saturday Cars & Coffee events... heads still turn when I come into the parking lot... the sound has appeal....
Good luck with making a decision.... if nothing else mattered to me.. the fact that I got the system bought and installed for just under $1,000 is a win.
[QUOTE=J Vette;1592977328]I can give you my thoughts because Borla was on my list along with the BB PRT.. Its hard to know how these sound compared to Borla. They may be deeper than the attack. AAMOF, I'd almost guarantee they are. One interesting thing about Borla is that their note gets higher pitched as you go louder. IOW, the touring are deeper than the S2 and the Atak.
BB PRT was what I was going to get for my c5 but then I stumbled across the Blackhearts and pulled up some youtube videos of them and liked what I was hearing, and then I read through your review and now I'm sold. They sound like exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!! Plus easier on the wallet as well
Now that I've lived with the setup for a couple of years... still loving the sound. IMHO, the sound is a tad louder than when first installed -- I'm guessing the system is "broken in" and I'm getting the full monty sound. Still discrete at idle... but when you push the skinny right pedal (hard) -- it's a glorious sound -- and the wife enjoys it too (and she's kind of a "It's too loud" person -- e.g., "Turn down that dang TV!!") I attribute this to the fact that she LIKES the "big sound" when I stomp on the accelerator. Once "at speed" -- the sound level is "just right" IMHO... not too loud... doesn't impact listening to the stereo (Bose) or having a conversation with the top down. (Although, the WindRestrictor is what really helps with conversations when the top is down and speed is above 45-50'ish.)
When I take the Vert to Saturday Cars & Coffee events... heads still turn when I come into the parking lot... the sound has appeal....
Good luck with making a decision.... if nothing else mattered to me.. the fact that I got the system bought and installed for just under $1,000 is a win.
I'm torn between the blackhearts and their NPP option for $1,300 vs. $835. We have a noise law that went into effect in California this year. If you could, would you prefer the NPP Blackhearts or the non. ??
I'm torn between the blackhearts and their NPP option for $1,300 vs. $835. We have a noise law that went into effect in California this year. If you could, would you prefer the NPP Blackhearts or the non. ??
While I don't have any data to quantify this, I can't imagine this system being anywhere near that loud. The California law is 95 dB 50 feet from behind the center point of the car, which is the same noise level that was in place before, it's just that the cops can now fine you as opposed to issue a "fix it" ticket. If the exhaust has an EO number from CARB, you can apply to have the fine reversed since the part is in compliance, so it might be worth checking with Hooker to see if the Blackhearts have an EO number.
I gave in and ordered the Hooker Blackhearts directly from Holley last winter, installed them in March. No regrets whatsoever, they sound better than expected! Low & mellow at idle, aggressive but not obnoxious “roar” upon acceleration, and nice “burble” during deceleration and downshifts. Tooling down the highway, you can hear them behind you, but totally in the background and not disturbing towards hearing the stereo w/o having to crank it, even with the top down! I HIGHLY RECOMMENDED these to anyone wanting to improve the sound of their Vette whether they have moogoo bucks to throw at expensive sets or not. IMO, you can spend twice the money for half the quality. And they look bigger and better too!
Those look great and I appreciate the feedback on how they look and sound. I'm calling Summit Racing today and ordering a set. They have them listed for $835 with free shipping. Their website says they are in stock and will ship today.
I'm torn between the blackhearts and their NPP option for $1,300 vs. $835. We have a noise law that went into effect in California this year. If you could, would you prefer the NPP Blackhearts or the non. ??
Frankly... not sure. There's nothing about the 'non' that bug me to consider muting the sound at any time.
10-03-2018, 12:48 AM
