Push Brake to Start Engine Problem
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2016
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Push Brake to Start Engine Problem
Hello All,
I hope everyone had a great Christmas!
I have a 2005 base C6 Corvette. The car runs like a scalded dog when it runs. It is now at my local Chevrolet dealership for the 3rd time in an attempt to trace a problem with my brake position sensor or something related to it.
What happens is:
1. Service Active Handling System error starts appearing intermittently.
2. Then out of the blue the Push Brake to Start Engine warning appears and then I can't start the car.
The brake position sensor is working according to the tech at the dealership. Somehow, everything works great for a while until...BAM!!...you're stranded! The dealership literally just told me that "they don't know what it is" at this point. Car has 65k miles on it.
I really like the car when it's running but I'm thinking about getting rid of it now. Seems like I'm just throwing money at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Any input is appreciated!
Don
I hope everyone had a great Christmas!
I have a 2005 base C6 Corvette. The car runs like a scalded dog when it runs. It is now at my local Chevrolet dealership for the 3rd time in an attempt to trace a problem with my brake position sensor or something related to it.
What happens is:
1. Service Active Handling System error starts appearing intermittently.
2. Then out of the blue the Push Brake to Start Engine warning appears and then I can't start the car.
The brake position sensor is working according to the tech at the dealership. Somehow, everything works great for a while until...BAM!!...you're stranded! The dealership literally just told me that "they don't know what it is" at this point. Car has 65k miles on it.
I really like the car when it's running but I'm thinking about getting rid of it now. Seems like I'm just throwing money at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Any input is appreciated!
Don
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,461
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From: Wayne Township WI
The dealership literally just told me that "they don't know what it is" at this point. Car has 65k miles on it...I really like the car when it's running but I'm thinking about getting rid of it now. Seems like I'm just throwing money at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Obviously something within ignition circuit's amiss and this 'tech' can't find anything? Contacted the Tech Center at BG. Nothing?
This is on your dime Don, diagnostic time could go ballistic so I feel your angst. Is there no other dealer close enough to try? Even a reputable indy shop? Any Corvette specialists?
Just because this dealer's tech couldn't find the problem doesn't mean another can't.
Post where you live, might generate shop referral recommendations.
Honestly I've been a member before '05/C6, since owned 2 C6 --one a Z06 so have followed C6 reliability issues its entire run. What you're experiencing has to have happened before over 8 years and apparently the obvious (PPS) according to this tech, isn't it.
Hang in there, this is very fixable if it gets in the right hands.
BTTT for other eyes.
Race Director
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From: SW Florida
2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 39
Likes: 2
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,461
Likes: 1,149
From: Wayne Township WI
Salient info:
"After five hours at $150 at the stealer it was diagnosed as a pedal position problem, but the fix wasn't the simple switch adjustment or replacement you might expect. It was a software update. Apparently the computer can get out of synch with respect to the actual pedal position. There's a service bulletin on this, PIC3079. I found this description in a 2005 thread on the forum."
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2016
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I have found a 2009 Z06 for 35k with 54k miles on it in Nashville.
Hmmm.....
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,461
Likes: 1,149
From: Wayne Township WI
Well Don, a 'new-2-u' Z06 would surely fix the issue. 
Guessing when this tech was born may explain how/why he never checked TSBs. Important point now is the dealer gets TSB# and prepare for the updated software. Proceed from there.
As for an '09 Z06?
Fairly low miles, price isn't bad either...a dealer taking a trade?
I'd acquired an unsold/untitled '08 JSB 2LZ in 03/09, now at 54K.
Still own it.
I've looked at C7 Zs, twice.
The C6 Z06 w/ LS7 is simply too special in so many ways.
If you haven't driven one, do so. If you have, you know.
Are you up to speed on the alleged valve/guide issue w/ LS7?
Visit our Z06 forum: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...iscussion-100/
Read-up on LS7, especially with respect to heads.
While possibly the best engine Chevrolet ever built, incredibly powerful while delivery excellent mileage, replacing a fragged one is not cheap. Don't ignore this.
Now IF you do get a Z06, good idea to budget ~$3K for rebuilt heads.
Mine's covered under a GMEPP, or I'd have done this long-long ago.
Aside from heads the Z06 is bulletproof, almost too good to be true.
If you're planning on a Z, get it.
Spring will be here in no time, available clean Zs will sell quick and at a premium.
Guessing when this tech was born may explain how/why he never checked TSBs. Important point now is the dealer gets TSB# and prepare for the updated software. Proceed from there.
As for an '09 Z06?
Fairly low miles, price isn't bad either...a dealer taking a trade?
I'd acquired an unsold/untitled '08 JSB 2LZ in 03/09, now at 54K.
Still own it.
I've looked at C7 Zs, twice.
The C6 Z06 w/ LS7 is simply too special in so many ways.
If you haven't driven one, do so. If you have, you know.
Are you up to speed on the alleged valve/guide issue w/ LS7?
Visit our Z06 forum: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...iscussion-100/
Read-up on LS7, especially with respect to heads.
While possibly the best engine Chevrolet ever built, incredibly powerful while delivery excellent mileage, replacing a fragged one is not cheap. Don't ignore this.
Now IF you do get a Z06, good idea to budget ~$3K for rebuilt heads.
Mine's covered under a GMEPP, or I'd have done this long-long ago.
Aside from heads the Z06 is bulletproof, almost too good to be true.
If you're planning on a Z, get it.
Spring will be here in no time, available clean Zs will sell quick and at a premium.
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2016
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The technician is an older guy. I'm about to be 45 and he looks older than me. He checked the software and said I was up-to-date.
Yes, I'm aware of the valve issue with the Z06's.
I just want to enjoy my car and trust that it will not leave me stranded somewhere. I really really do not want to get rid of it.
I've learned so much about Corvettes because of my car's problems. I wish I had this knowledge back before I bought it. But, hindsight is 2020. 😊
The Corvette has always been a dream car of mine and, damn, they are fun to drive!
I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate your replies.
Yes, I'm aware of the valve issue with the Z06's.
I just want to enjoy my car and trust that it will not leave me stranded somewhere. I really really do not want to get rid of it.
I've learned so much about Corvettes because of my car's problems. I wish I had this knowledge back before I bought it. But, hindsight is 2020. 😊
The Corvette has always been a dream car of mine and, damn, they are fun to drive!
I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate your replies.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,461
Likes: 1,149
From: Wayne Township WI
Every owner wants their C to function as intended, what's the point of ownership otherwise.
Your issue's troubling. Can't get it started. Not sensor(s), not software.
Considered another tech/dealer if present guy's an indy?
Problem's solvable, just have to find the right eyes.
FWIW try posting issue on SE regional forum.
Not looking for solutions, tho' any are welcome, you're seeking shops/dealers w/ recommendations. Has to be at least one.
So, what's the next step?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2016
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I just checked with the dealership. Tech found a loose ground that was causing voltage issues. I have read here where low voltage can cause all sorts of problems. The tech thinks that there is more to the issue than a loose connection.
The car is actually starting up fine right now. He has started it many times. But, can't know for sure if the car will continue to start properly.
Oh well. I'm a patient guy. It's a needle in a haystack. Just got to find the needle.
The car is actually starting up fine right now. He has started it many times. But, can't know for sure if the car will continue to start properly.
Oh well. I'm a patient guy. It's a needle in a haystack. Just got to find the needle.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 116
Likes: 16
From: Collinsville IL
I seem to be having the same problem. First symptom was cruise control disengaged and wouldn't re-engage. Then the "Service Active Handling" message on the DIC and the traction control system warning light came on. Later in the evening I could start the car, but couldn't get it out of park. The next day it started fine, and I was able to shift out of park.
I took it to the dealer and the tech found that he could start the car without engaging the brake and shift out of park without using the brake. Replaced the brake position sensor. When I picked it up from the dealer, at first I couldn't get it out of park until I shut the engine off and restarted it. Driving that evening I got the "Service Active Handling" message. Let it sit for the weekend and drove to work this past Tuesday and Wednesday. No problem Tuesday, but when I left work Wednesday I at first couldn't get it to start. It said, "Engage brake to start engine". I kept trying it until it finally started.
Drove my truck today. No sense taking chances. I will have to bring up the PIC3079 issue when I bring the car in. I'm glad I kept looking at the forums for help.
I took it to the dealer and the tech found that he could start the car without engaging the brake and shift out of park without using the brake. Replaced the brake position sensor. When I picked it up from the dealer, at first I couldn't get it out of park until I shut the engine off and restarted it. Driving that evening I got the "Service Active Handling" message. Let it sit for the weekend and drove to work this past Tuesday and Wednesday. No problem Tuesday, but when I left work Wednesday I at first couldn't get it to start. It said, "Engage brake to start engine". I kept trying it until it finally started.
Drove my truck today. No sense taking chances. I will have to bring up the PIC3079 issue when I bring the car in. I'm glad I kept looking at the forums for help.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Wayne Township WI
Had a notion it'd be something almost too obvious.
Don't be concerned, betting this was the issue because low power does indeed result in all manner of weird behavior.
Symptoms caused me a little tunnel vision, focusing on wrong thing.
Said you wanted to keep it, you're golden.
(test drive a Z06 & all bets are off keeping the '05, tho'.
)
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 35
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Found it, a loose ground.
Had a notion it'd be something almost too obvious.
Don't be concerned, betting this was the issue because low power does indeed result in all manner of weird behavior.
Symptoms caused me a little tunnel vision, focusing on wrong thing.
Said you wanted to keep it, you're golden.
(test drive a Z06 & all bets are off keeping the '05, tho'.)
Had a notion it'd be something almost too obvious.
Don't be concerned, betting this was the issue because low power does indeed result in all manner of weird behavior.
Symptoms caused me a little tunnel vision, focusing on wrong thing.
Said you wanted to keep it, you're golden.
(test drive a Z06 & all bets are off keeping the '05, tho'.
)Nice but where was the ground wire there are many. Maybe a pic of the area and then a close up of it?
Dsherman
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,461
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From: Wayne Township WI
All I have are GND locations: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...locations.html
I'd start w/ easiest to reach & go from there before attempting any hidden/covered ones. Might get lucky.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2016
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Picked car up Friday (yesterday). Tech cleaned some corroded electrical connectors that were connected to the ECM (?). Tech said that was fairly common. Tech said he could not make the car "fail" once the ground and corrosion were corrected.
Car is starting fine right now. Will keep everyone posted.
Thank you everyone for your support!!!
Don
Car is starting fine right now. Will keep everyone posted.
Thank you everyone for your support!!!
Don
Last edited by donridley; Dec 31, 2016 at 01:29 PM.