MarkB3

Hello all. I'm a 4 year corvette owner with an '05 M6 coupe with 35K miles on it. Last fall I had a TPMS stop working during a road trip. Cycling the ignition cleared it up, but it got me thinking that the TPMS batteries must be close to dead after 12 years. So I decided to replace them when I get my annual road force wheel balancing and alignment.

I found a Mercedes specialty shop is Scarborough Maine with a Hunter wheel balancer and used them last year for balancing/alignment. My car's ride and handling has never been better. I asked the owner this spring if he could replace my TPMS sensors and he said he carries them in stock so no problem.

Dropped it off with them this morning, they call me this afternoon and tell me it's ready, no problems. I pay up and start it up to drive home. As soon as the engine starts and goes through it's startup routine, I get the big yellow TPMS warning light on the dash, DIC messages about a flat tire and speed reduced to 55. Cycle the ignition with no change.

The owner acts surprised when I tell him and says he test drove it and it was fine. He went into great detail about how he had to enter serial numbers into the BCM for the sensors and everything was working fine.

He sends the young tech out to the car with a scan tool of some sort. The kid tells me that he's seeing pressures from all 4 tires on the scan tool so it must be OK. Don't know what kind of scan tool but the owner said it was the best you could buy. They tell me I'm good to go. So I start it up and the same thing happens exactly like the first time. Dash TPMS warning light and DIC warnings about a flat tire and speed reduction. When I cycled through the gage readings, I was showing 34 pounds on 3 tired, 0 pounds on front left tire.

Now it gets good. The owner tells me it must be the car computer because he's getting a pressure reading off all the sensors on his scan tool. So I ask him what kind of activation tool he used to activate the sensors. He said he doesn't use an activation tool because he has his scan tool (connected to the data port). WHAT!? The kid tech then pipes up and says "you know, when he pressed the lock/unlock buttons on the FOB, the car did not go beep beep." So I told the owner I wasn't taking the car until he fixed the TPMS system. He said he'd spend some time with it and see what he could figure out. I pointed out that the tires should be inflated to 30 PSI, not 34.

I searched this forum and learned/remembered a lot about the TPMS system. First, all TPMS sensors compatible with the C6 are either pressure activated ('10,'11) or electronically activated through a 214K cycle signal from... an activation tool. How can a scan tool, talking to the car computer through a cable, activate a device not connected to the computer? Makes no sense, which brings into doubt everything these people said.

Some suspicious things: The tech kid said he test drove the car for at least 15 minutes. So did the owner. I don't think either person ever test drove the car. I think they have the wrong sensors installed. Although if that's the case I don't understand how 3 are working and 1 is not. Maybe one wrong sensor installed... At any rate, if activation is done correctly it seems like there is no serial numbers to enter into the BCM.

Tomorrow I'm going to talk to the owner about mid-day if they don't call me earlier. I'm going to try to pin them down on what brand sensor they installed and it's part number and exactly how they were activated.

Does anybody have any ideas? Besides never going back to this place again.

Thanks in advance.

-Mark

1bdvet

First I would find out what sensors were used, my 2005 I used TPS part number OEM 25758220.

Next if you have the correct installed, take to chevy dealer, they reset my sensor's for free, and relearned, and have no problems.

extrapilot

I had a similar issue with the wife's Lexus with a tire center doing the install and re-learn of OEM TPS's that I supplied. Three times they tried to get things to work correctly, all failed.
Took it the dealer where it was purchased, fixed it free of charge..end of problems..

EVRose

Using the right reset tool will most likely get it working. Stop by a Discount Tire and let them do it (free). I've never heard of any other way to do it other than using a tpms reset tool.

jrose7004

If the Mercedes shop installed the right sensors, Discount Tire can get them to work.

4SUMERZ

If the correct sensors were installed, and the correct relearn tool was used, they should be all working.
Find out if they used the correct TPM sensors ( OEM 25758220) as mentioned.
I have a 2006, just replaced all my sensors with the same OEM 25758220 , got in the car in aux mode, pushed both lock/unlock together on the FOB, until I got 1 horn chirp, then used the relearn tool starting with the LF, 1 chirp, RF 1 chirp, RR 1 chirp, LR 2 chirps, and it's finished. The sensors are paired to your computer.
I used Relearn tool EL - 50448, but others work as well.



Here is a video on How To

MarkB3

TPMS Problem update: I talked to the shop owner today. He said he and his helper got all 4 sensors to reset and communicate with the cars computer last night. He drove it a few miles, cycled the ignition and all was well. He tested it at 9 AM this morning before calling me to pick it up. Same problem, only now a different wheel was showing an error.

So it goes into 'learn' mode OK, all 4 wheels reset OK in the correct order, but after sitting a while one of the sensors seems to lose sync with the computer and generates an error. And it's a different sensor each time.

He used Wurth sensors part # 0879024050. He claims he used the same sensors on an '09 Vette a few weeks ago with no problems.

His belief is that the BCM needs to be flashed so it can stay in sync with the sensors. He's talking to a buddy at a chevy dealership about the problem.

I told him the C6 was sensitive to sensor brand and his sensors were the problem. He's going to reinstall the original sensors to eliminate his sensors from the equation. He said if the originals don't cause an error, he's going to install OE sensors bought from his chevy buddy.

Thanks to everyone for their response. I should know more tomorrow.

-Mark

EVRose

Don't let him "flash" anything!

MarkB3

I'm with you. At this point, the shop owner has one chance only with me - install OE sensors. I intend to pick up my car tomorrow whether he has things working correctly or not.

-Mark

4SUMERZ

The 2005-2009 sensors should be the same. I would make sure that the sensors cross refrence the OEM Shrader sensor # 25758220, which are the original sensors.
I looked at the Wurth Cross reference from their application sheet (attached) and I don't see the part # that you posted.
It appears that Wurth sensors are blanks that have to be programmed to fit the car. That alone would make me not want them. I would either go OEM or Schrader-same part #. I know they work no issues, because I just got 4 new Schraders for my 2006 and super easy to pair with the car.
Here is the dish about Wurth Sensors.
About Würth TPMS US

WURTH Tire Pressure Monitoring System Sensors
WURTH Universal TPMS Sensors are designed to be the ultimate O.E. sensor replacement units in the North American market. With only 3 SKUs, these Universal TPMS Sensors provide over 95% coverage in the marketplace.

The WURTH Ultimate TPMS Universal Solution Contains:

315 MHZ sensor
433 MHZ sensor
Sensor Aid Programming/Diagnostic Device that scans sensor IDs, PSI, Temperature, Battery, Year, Make & Model
How it Works

The WURTH TPMS Sensor System contains two blank sensors that are easily programmed to diagnose any vehicle in just a few simple steps. The user-friendly Sensor Aid has a step-by-step programming guide.

Only 5 clicks to be ready to scan any type of sensor
Only 6 clicks to select the programming solution to service the defective TPMS sensor
Some of your benefits include:
Reduction of SKUs in inventory
Improved TPMS service time
Built just like the O.E. sensors in terms of signal interval, durability and functionality
Premium grade battery designed to perform in the most severe weather conditions
Precision crafted air valve to prevent air pressure leakage
Anodized stem valve for corrosion resistance
Quick and easy installation

It looks like you have the 5% that doesn't work like it should.
If it were me, I'd request a compatible Sensor instead of a universal one.

http://wurthtpms.com/doc/Wurth%20TPM...Vers%203.6.pdf

Don-Vette

My tire guy just used a handheld scanner to set my new senors, and drive away.

MarkB3

LV2TOUR: Thanks for all the info. It will come in handy during my talk with the shop owner tomorrow.

-Mark

MarkB3

TPMS Update: Well the saga is over. I picked my car up at noon today and it's perfect. Turns out the owner talked to a tech buddy at a chevy dealership yesterday. The buddy told the shop owner to stop screwing around and install Delco or Schrader OE sensors. He installed them last night and tested them repeatedly today and they have stayed in sync since installation. I have my baby back, a little dirty but otherwise perfect.

Life is good.

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. It's much appreciated.

-Mark

(Taken at 2:45 PM today. Yep, that's snow behind the car)

Icecap

Thanks for relating your experience with the TPMS. We acquired our 2007 C6 Convertible last November and it was in winter storage until 2 weeks ago. I've been fretting over the TPMS in our car even though it is still working perfectly.

I read in the owners manual that the life expectancy of the batteries in the sensors is 8 years. The previous owner had replaced the original Goodyear F1 tires a year ago with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires and gave me the invoice from the alignment and tire purchase. Having read about the 8 year sensor life I was disturbed that the sensors weren't replaced at the same time.

Seeing your mileage is at more than double mine and 2 years older gives me a bit of comfort and ease of mind because up until reading this post every time I've had the car out I expected that TPMS error message and the reduced speed notification to come on when we took the car out.

extrapilot

You should be OK for a while longer, considering from what I read, mileage plays a big part on the longevity of the batteries. This is because the TPS's go into a sleep mode when not in use, so higher mileage cars would run down the strength of the batteries sooner.
I'm at 54K with my 2006 and so far no issues with the TPS's, yet.

bklynfirst

2006 C6 with 65K. I disconnected the battery to do some work on my radio. The TPMS was working fine beforehand. Now I have the "Service Tire Monitor" message and no individual tire pressure readouts. Need help with this one. I did have the battery run down before I disconnected it, and put a trickle charger on it. Car's systems all are working fine except the TPMS.

extrapilot

Is this after you drove the car for a while?
I'm thinking that the TPS's need to "wake up" before they will start sending a signal again. On the other hand, if the TPS's are the originals, than you could be having issues with very weak or dead batteries.

cclive

"Entering S/N s into the BCM"....what a line of crap.

When I switch wheels, it takes far less than one minute to re-program the four sensors.

HOXXOH

Don't panic regarding DIC messages about your sensors or speed limitations. Here's some helpful info, explained in simple terms.

The sensors are like a dual element light bulb. The batteries don't fail just because they get old, but because they fail when the voltage drops below a workable point. When the car is started, the sensors turn on in low power mode. Then they answer requests from the RCDLR in a higher power mode, in the order they were last synchronized.

As a general rule, verify the DIC reading vs a tire gauge if you get different pressures on opposite sides of the car after a tire change. Tire stores don't always put the wheels back on the original locations, so the sensors may need to be reset in the correct order to match the DIC readout location.

The sensors will respond to RCDLR requests once a minute in normal operation, but send a signal if there is an abnormal condition, such as a sudden pressure loss. Once the car is shut off, the sensor goes dormant after 45(?) minutes and will not become active until the next ignition cycle.

GM says the sensors should last 8-10 years, but that's based on average drivers driving in normal usage. To understand the time vs mileage battery use, here's two examples.

Driver 1 goes to lunch at a restaurant 1 mile from his house. He stays there for an hour and drives back home. His sensor batteries turned on to the ready mode for the 3 minute drive and another 45 minutes after shutdown and included 3 requests from the RCDLR in each direction for a total of 51 minutes plus 6 requests. If we assume a response to a request requires twice the power as simply being in the ready to respond mode, then the total 2 mile round trip used 63 units of power or 31.5 units per mile.

Driver 2 goes for a leisurely 100 mile cruise that takes 3 hours and returns home. He uses 180 units (minutes) for the cruise time, plus 45 units (minutes) for shutdown, plus 360 units (minutes x 2) for response to requests. That total is 585 units of power for the 100 mile trip or 5.85 units per mile.

Let's make another assumption that the batteries will output sufficient voltage for 500,000 units of power. That means driver 1 will get nearly 16K miles before failure and driver 2 will pass 85K miles. Put in a time perspective as if both drivers do it daily, it'd take driver 1 about 44 years (and a lot of food) vs driver 2 in 2.3 years (and a lot of gas) before the batteries give up.

Some DIC messages are false alarms due to other sources of electrical interference and/or weakening batteries.
Be sure to immediately check pressure if you get the FLAT TIRE warning.
The LOW PRESSURE warning will come on at 24 psi, so it's not an emergency. Keep an eye on it in the event it continues downward that you have time to decide on a course of action before it becomes critical.
When you get a DIC message that indicates a XX, it means that the signal was not clear or complete. It usually clears itself in 3 to 5 ignition cycles.
DIC speed warnings are only warnings and do not limit your actual speed to any number under 158 mph.
You can continue to drive with bad sensors or no sensors at all, since their purpose is an early warning system, not an operational control.
You can change sensors one at a time or all together. They can be changed without removing the tire from the wheel, which means a rebalance is not necessary. Of course, any time one or more is changed, the car must go through the reset process.
Clonable sensors are available and are especially useful if you swap wheels often, due to using different tires for racing or snow. A point to remember after cloning is to store the wheels you aren't using about 50 feet or more from the car, since the car may pick up the wrong signal and won't correct it self until after you drive away. If you sell the tires/wheels with the clonable sensors the new owner can reclone them to match his car.

I'm currently at 145K on original '08 sensors and one has occasional false readings for the last 60K miles. The bottom line here is: don't panic and don't bother fixing it until it's broke.

HOXXOH

Actually what your "program tool" is doing, is reading the serial number and transmitting it to the RCDLR. Nothing in the sensor ever changes.