ncstingray

You know this only applies to engines from around 2007 and older? All these issues because Porsche didn't design left and right heads so the cams would be driven from the same side of the engine. UGHH

d.medic

This is probably the most well informed respectful thread about another model car I've seen on this forum. No bashing and full of real world facts. Thanks guys!

Suns_PSD

Can you tell us more about this?

I've been intrigued by Porsches for years and just trying to learn.

As far a exclusivity, the 911 wins by a wide margin.

I will say this, I have not been impressed by the Porsches I have encountered at the race track.

MAYH3M

I was googling random parts. I normally don't work with dealerships.

I would have to consider an 08 and newer. A friend was telling me the same thing.

OlyC6

Assuming the machines you're running against are in good working order (i.e., not older, cobbled together rigs...), I would venture that your comment is really meant for the "drivers" of the Porsches.

I've seen highly skilled drivers take an ordinary street car on a road course and out pace a lesser driver in an expensive sports car....

Suns_PSD

Absolutely true. I don't have a ton of track time in a car, but I have battled for lap records on motorcycles many years ago.

I belonged to a local members track for a short while and I ran pretty well both in a Hyundai Genesis and then later in my C6. I only ever struggled getting around 2 cars, and both were track only lightweight *** import jobs on this particular tight track. Was never impressed by the high dollar cars, but I get that they have different drivers and different expenses and risks associated with operating them.

ncstingray

The Porsches make great "all around" track cars, very well behaved and balanced. Most are down on power compared to the likes of the M3, M4, C7, GT350 and some Porsche drivers get really butt hurt when they get passed by a corvette of any kind. I am an equal opportunity car enthusiast who appreciates ALL sports cars.

EvanZR1

This is really the key point. My 13 GS will out handle, out brake, and WAY out accelerate (700RW) many Porsches and most BMWs. However it does not have that magical "feel". This really comes down to how the steering and the chassis react and communicate with the driver. This has always been true of Corvettes I've had (C4s, C5s, C6), while the Porsches and BMWs have always had it (although BMW lost some of it when it went to electric steering). I used to run my Vettes at road courses, and my current one I do a LOT of backroad twisty driving (Tail of the Dragon, Three Sisters in TX, Arkansas back roads, etc), and I guarantee you my GS would walk away from even a Cayman GT4 (have driven a coworker's), but the big difference is that I feel uncomfortable pushing my GS past 8-9/10ths because it just doesn't promote driver confidence at the limit. In contrast the sweetest car I've ever driven was a little Porsche 944 Turbo, I could place that car exactly where I wanted it and drive it to 10/10ths and never worry that it was going to get away from me. Same thing with the Cayman GT4, BMW Z4M that I owned (last of the hydraulic steering, NA straight six BMW M cars), and even my wife's 2010 335i Sport.

The question is what's more important to you? Living in Dallas, big HP is the thing here where my measly 700RW wouldn't even make the cut for some events. It would take WAY more money to get a car with that "feel" to the HP level I want for doing 1/2 mile & 1 mile events, and honestly I don't need that "feel" to drive around expressway/tollway. If I lived in North GA, TN or the Carolinas, I'd drop the Vette like a hot potato and go for a BMW or Porsche and spend all my weekends on Tail of the Dragon or other mountain roads. As a matter of fact, I'm actually starting to look for a gen 1 Boxster S to keep at my parents place in North GA for just that reason.

MAYH3M

good write up. as basic as my little 328i is, it has opened my eyes. It feels like i am just floating on the street in that darn little car. Sounds funny but its true, the steering wheel is so tight, and to answer your question, i prefer handling over power, at least i am swaying this way it seems, the vette would be so hard to part with because its so loud and raw and gets attention, but im willing to bet i couldnt wait to hop in a little cayman s after work on the way home everyday. I have been researching porsche a lot lately and they are unique cars, its almost like people who really like the driving experience are going for these cars. My 328i in sport mode is hell of a lot of fun with a mere 230hp. I wish i made more money id own all 3 cars

ojand

its not all about horsepower or speed. its the fact that your paying for the brand of "Porsche" a luxury german sports car where as a C6 is a budget american sports car. I would go for the newer cayman s or a 911 over a corvette but everyones income is different

CloudLS9

I too am torn between Porsche's hard to describe "feel" and Corvette's raw power. I've owned 2 Corvettes and 3 Porsches (06' Boxster S, 08' Carrera S Cabriolet and a 12' Boxster S black edition.

My 1st Boxster handled great, sounded great and was a lot of fun, but performance was nothing to brag about.

After my 1st Boxster, I test drove a C6 Z51. I jumped on the Vette after the test drive on account of the power and sound . After living with the C6 for a while though, I was regularly let down by the poor build quality, rattles, interior parts breaking, poor handling, body roll so so brakes and numb steering feel.

After the first C6, I got the 911 C2S hoping to get the Boxster feel, but with more power. The fit and finish and ride quality on the 911 were top notch, stock radio was the best I've ever had, back seats were practical. The power and sound was better than the 1st Boxster but still less exciting than the Vette. The handling was better than the Vette, but not nearly as good as the Boxster. I'd of liked it more if I hadn't owned both a Boxster and a Corvette prior, but it was still an all around good compromise.

So I bought the 12' Boxster S Black edition. This was my favorite Porsche of the 3. The DFI engine without IMS started in 09. It made a bit more power than my first Boxster (320hp). In fact, at 2900 lbs. the power to weight ratio was the same as my heavier 911, but the newer engine was way smoother with fewer moving parts. The clutch was very light and great in traffic. The DFI made for more sensitive throttle response. The steering feel in my 12 was by far the best of the three. It felt perfectly tensioned, and nicely complimented the perfectly balanced chassis. This car also had adjustable suspension and ventilated seats. All of the sounds the car made were like music including the whale of the engine under an underpass, the air intake behind your head and the distinctive air cooled reminiscent wine of the gears. The adjustable suspension was very smooth on the comfort mode. The thing I hated about this car was the black paint. It was a nightmare to keep perfect if your OCD like me. That and all the brake dust (on all 3 p-cars). If it weren't for the black paint, I likely would have held on to this car a lot longer.

I jumped on my ZR1 because it was a screaming good deal, overflowing with power and easy to live with silver. It also represents America in a way that makes me proud. The power and sound is in a league of it's own at full throttle and always puts a smile on my face and always feels exciting. With the magnetic ride suspension it can take corners around a track even faster and more level than the Boxsters, all be it with less confidence and poise. The carbon ceramic brakes are the best I've ever experienced and they don't produce brake dust. I'm still in love with my ZR1, but sometimes it's tough to live with as a daily driver as it's not nearly as refined as a Porsche and many aspects of it feel crude..especially the sounds it makes when you're not going fast. Sometimes I think I'd like it more if it were a weekend car. I'm not bored with it, but I realize if I did start to get bored, I could always do a few simple mods to rekindle the flame with more cheap power.

The ZR1 doesn't leave me wanting in the performance department, but it's no Porsche in the "feel" department. Here are a few of the things that bug me about the ZR1. That awful sound the doors make when they close with a window rattle. The road / tire noise, drive line marble noise, vibrations and droning from rear hatch, crappy radio, with rattly speakers, ugly interior. The service department at GM is like a trip to the DMV whereas Porsche dealership feels like you're checking in at your vacation retreat. Porsche give you fresh fruit, gourmet coffee, then a complimentary loaner car like a Panamera. When you return, your car is washed and waxed.

As of now, I'm planning to hang on to the ZR1 for a while, but sometimes I wonder if I'll get tempted to go back to the P-car. The reality is I love both cars but in different ways. The P-cars definitely tug at your heart strings in intangible ways that don't measure up on a track, but the Corvette is also a powerful temptress.

LowRyter

European cars are nice driving cars no doubt. But these cars are Built to Lease, not Built to Last.

Don't care if it's a Porsche, Merc, Audi, Beemer or VW. Just oil changes, wipers and brakes are bad enough. Then check out a Porsche with milkshake or the doohickey and you know why they make a kit to replace the engines with an LS (and the LS engine is lighter to boot). Or maybe a VW/Audi with a timing tensioner doohickey?

But driving experience is where American cars (at least 4 door sedans) have come up short. Asian cars are perhaps the best compromise. Frankly, there is no better deal than an Accord.

Boomer111

Always been a Porsche fan. Test drove one and was disappointed. Bought the C6.

All about the V8 power...

BlindSpot

Came from the Euro Marque world (Not Porsche though), went downstream to experiment with an old school pushrod FI and tune with a modern EMS and now the experiment is over and heading back over.

Nothing bad to say about a Corvette when put in the proper context of what the car is as well as the market it serves. It fits a market niche well and a good price point.

LowRyter

MAYH3M

This was a good read. A little poetic too. Aaaannd it kind of makes me want the porsche now. The ideal car would be a powerful v8 porsche like the engine swapped picture the other gentleman posted. But im not doing all that if i were to get one. Its a bummer everyone is putting turbos in their production cars nowadays. Why i have such a respect for the C6Z, but i dont want to get off topic

wayback

Hey Ion, most of your problems are easy fixes or not normal. There should be no window rattle when closing the door. Easy adjustment after taking off the door panel.
Tire/road noise is greatly reduced with Crazy Cowboys pre cut insulation kit. Did mine in one day. Much quieter and less heat from the headers.

Rattle like stones in a can is probably the rubber bushings letting go on the torque tube.

Hatch droan and wind problem is fixed with a hatch partition. Mine has 2 built in storage compartments and looks factory.

Sure the build quality is not on par with most comparable Euro sports cars but performance per dollar can't be touched by them either.

I have 190,000 miles of smiles on my 07 and it hardly makes any noise, just sway bars going over uneven corners at slow speeds.

MAYH3M

Hopping in the corvette after the porsche, the car just feels so long, the snout is too big, the cayman s feels itty bitty and turns so well. My little 3 series would almost do it for me if it just had more power and a little suspension work.

CloudLS9

Thanks for the input. I plan to add a sound insulation kit, I'll look in to the partition as well.

I usually drive with the exhaust valves open and radio up as the exhaust drone masks the other noises that bug me. Today, on the ride home I shut if off for a bit to listen to some of the other sounds. There is a lot of wind noise over the roof that I wonder if a new headliner could help with. Also, the run flat tires make a bit of noise but I'm not comfortable without a spare so hopefully the insulation kit and partition helps with that.

As for the window rattle, that only occurs if the windows are partially down when closing. The speaker rattle can be addressed with aftermarket speakers and sound isolation.

The stones sound.. maybe not the best way to describe it, I heard someone else use this analogy but maybe they were describing a different problem. I'm not sure how to describe what I'm hearing, but basically when engaging in 1st slowly in traffic, there is an odd friction sound. It's less noticeable if you let clutch out more quickly. I bought car from Carmax but took it to Chevrolet for a full independent PPI inspection. They swore they couldn't find anything wrong with the car or clutch engagement. They said car was perfect and driveline sounds were perfectly normal. I've found other threads on corvette forum where people describe similar noises and others who say they hear nothing. My dad is older and hears nothing when riding along.

I guess I'm just being a bit picky. Noises are par for the course when you have balsa wood floors and a carbon fiber roof, large glass hatch and little sound deadening from the factory to save weight. Fortunately the sound insulation kits are a viable aftermarket option to hep quiet things down.

Thanks again for the tips.

P.S. Sorry to go off topic from the original thread.

CloudLS9

A Boxster or Cayman with Corvette power would be a blast. The newer P-cars with the lightning fast PDK shifts actually put down very respectable performance stats, and can hang with Corvettes in a straight line but I always opted for the manual even at the cost of speed as it provided a better driving experience.

If you haven't tried driving one of the 09 and up Boxster / Caymans, give one a test drive. They are a bit faster and smoother. If you add intake, exhaust, IPD plenum, throttle body and tune you can make pretty decent power, but these aftermarket parts are still fairly expensive for the modest gains they provide. It's much easier and cheaper to add power on a Corvette.

As for ownership costs... Porsches are very reliable especially with the 09 and up engines. All I ever did was basic maintenance. Honestly, those I know with BMWs have had way more problems. When people say maintenance is expensive on a Porsche, it's not because they are unreliable, it's because what the dealers charge for basic stuff like fluids, brakes etc. If you have the time to do your own maintenance and a service reset tool, you could save a lot of money. In my case, my time is more scarce.

As for displacement vs boost, I agree the naturally aspirated Porsche engines sound MUCH better. At least turbo cars respond to tuning better and provide a bunch of torque. In a few years when the 4 cylinder turbo Boxster Caymans have more aftermarket support, they could be very fast cars with the boost dialed up. Still, I could probably be swayed by a Boxster GTS with less power but that incredible sound.

In all likelihood though, if I got another P-car down the road, it would probably be another 911 solely for the back seat. The Boxster / Cayman is the better driver's car, but it would be nice to be able to take my wife and son out at the same time.

It seems everything is just a series of trade offs and compromises. You just have to decide what's important to you.