Headers worth it without Mid Pipe?
Racer
Joined: Jul 2017
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In my case I have a corsa mid pipe that is 2.5 inch followed by corsa sports at 2.5 Inch....Really if the headers exit at the Stock location then obviously going with Billy boat headers would not in fact offer a restriction. Unless your 3 inch all the way the bottleneck will always be tailpipes Which typically measured 2.5 inch ID
Last edited by Dman302; Feb 15, 2018 at 04:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 536
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From: New York
So if I bought:
http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-860...pes-black.aspx
Would the 3 inch x pipe narrow at the end to fit my 2.5inch npp axel back mufflers?
http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-860...pes-black.aspx
Would the 3 inch x pipe narrow at the end to fit my 2.5inch npp axel back mufflers?
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,555
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From: Saint Albans, WV
So if I bought:
http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-860...pes-black.aspx
Would the 3 inch x pipe narrow at the end to fit my 2.5inch npp axel back mufflers?
http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-860...pes-black.aspx
Would the 3 inch x pipe narrow at the end to fit my 2.5inch npp axel back mufflers?
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,389
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I guess I don't quite understand why you would want to connect to the stock mid pipe. The whole idea of going to longtubes is to improve flow through the exhaust. The stock cats and H pipe are horribly restrictive, thats why a ton of people replace them. For nearly the same price you can get a catless mid pipe and headers that will significantly improve flow through the system; and in turn power if its tuned for it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Atlanta GA
The "long" part of the LTs - the long runners - are what increases power. The BBs have a long runner with a shorter merge section. From all the dyno comparisons theres almost zero power difference between LT+x vs BB LTs. Price differential was 300ish for BB vs Kooks/ARH/etc. 30% off is not "a little more" for basically no power gain.
And the power gain has nothing to do with the collector design and the scavaging and it is all about the long tube ..... ??? Right..... I have a prime peice of land to sell you in Florida
Dave
Thread Starter
Pro
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From: New York
From what I understand the scavaging is very important. Help the exhaust escape faster correct?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Atlanta GA
it is all about the most important part , the collector and its design as this is what facilitates the scavenging of the cylinders . Ask any drag racer how many different collectors designs they have ( their collectors slide on and off to facilitate change outs )
Get the x pipe , even if u have to save a bit. Running headers without the crossover pipe is like taking a shower with your shoes on ....
Dave
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Thread Starter
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From: New York
Yes it's all about the scavenging , the lenght of the tube and the diameter affect where in the torque band the power will come in , small diameter long tubes make power down low and large diameter tubes make power higher , now there are many debates on what's the best size for our car but thats not what we are talking about here .......
it is all about the most important part , the collector and its design as this is what facilitates the scavenging of the cylinders . Ask any drag racer how many different collectors designs they have ( their collectors slide on and off to facilitate change outs )
Get the x pipe , even if u have to save a bit. Running headers without the crossover pipe is like taking a shower with your shoes on ....
Dave
it is all about the most important part , the collector and its design as this is what facilitates the scavenging of the cylinders . Ask any drag racer how many different collectors designs they have ( their collectors slide on and off to facilitate change outs )
Get the x pipe , even if u have to save a bit. Running headers without the crossover pipe is like taking a shower with your shoes on ....
Dave
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,673
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From: Atlanta GA
So the question you need to answer is are you going to do more work on the car like cam .. heads etc of just keep it stock with headers ?
Dave
Last edited by Dcasole; Feb 16, 2018 at 03:13 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
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From: New York
No heads work.. maybe...and a very small maybe get a cam one day. Probably not though. Bolt ons is probably as far as I go.
Last edited by Adam Cifonelli; Feb 16, 2018 at 03:36 PM.
Le Mans Master
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From: lake havasu city arizona
Simple experiment on how headers work, very simple 
NSF PS if I'm not mistaken Hinsons X pipe uses the "H" type crossover instead of the "X" type, controversy there also but at least you know which is which.
NSF PS if I'm not mistaken Hinsons X pipe uses the "H" type crossover instead of the "X" type, controversy there also but at least you know which is which.
Last edited by Not So Fast; Feb 16, 2018 at 03:48 PM.
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No big cam/heads/forced induction? Go with the 1 3/4" tube size. And if I were you, I would buy the matching X pipe along with what ever header manufacturer you choose to eliminate any headaches
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Atlanta GA
Here we go .... let the games and all the internet legends begin lol lol lol
Dave
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2016
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The BBs have LTs and are 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 just like any other LT. Length of the tubes are roughly the same. Merge area is a little short so you -might- lose power. Same idea as the merge spikes.
When I stated its the "long part that makes power" I OBVIOUSLY did not mean the longer the better. I meant the length of the tube for these applications is what creates the scavenging effect that makes power.
I stand by my claim that the whole point of long tubes is a long straight section of pipe - and as long as that section of pipe has relatively smooth curves, the length is all that really matters in terms of headers. My OEM system has an X pipe too so theres no difference there.
Most of my info comes from reading up on well-known tuners recommendations - no first hand experience but probably the 2nd best method of learning.
A guy to search out would be anthony (previous LGM employee) who had a lot of good info on header sizing.
Last edited by Ahrmike; Feb 17, 2018 at 02:01 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2016
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I found most tuners recommend the larger 1-7/8 for the LS3 and the 1-3/4 for most LS2s. Still, you probably wont notice a difference in power with either until you start doing stuff to it.
Last edited by Ahrmike; Feb 17, 2018 at 01:56 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,673
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From: Atlanta GA
When I did my due diligence and research no tuner ever explicitly said the BBs made less power than any other LT+x combo. Hell, most tuners said merge spikes would make you less HP than their dyno could accurately measure.
The BBs have LTs and are 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 just like any other LT. Length of the tubes are roughly the same. Merge area is a little short so you -might- lose power. Same idea as the merge spikes.
When I stated its the "long part that makes power" I OBVIOUSLY did not mean the longer the better. I meant the length of the tube for these applications is what creates the scavenging effect that makes power.
I stand by my claim that the whole point of long tubes is a long straight section of pipe - and as long as that section of pipe has relatively smooth curves, the length is all that really matters in terms of headers. My OEM system has an X pipe too so theres no difference there.
Most of my info comes from reading up on well-known tuners recommendations - no first hand experience but probably the 2nd best method of learning.
A guy to search out would be anthony (previous LGM employee) who had a lot of good info on header sizing.
The BBs have LTs and are 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 just like any other LT. Length of the tubes are roughly the same. Merge area is a little short so you -might- lose power. Same idea as the merge spikes.
When I stated its the "long part that makes power" I OBVIOUSLY did not mean the longer the better. I meant the length of the tube for these applications is what creates the scavenging effect that makes power.
I stand by my claim that the whole point of long tubes is a long straight section of pipe - and as long as that section of pipe has relatively smooth curves, the length is all that really matters in terms of headers. My OEM system has an X pipe too so theres no difference there.
Most of my info comes from reading up on well-known tuners recommendations - no first hand experience but probably the 2nd best method of learning.
A guy to search out would be anthony (previous LGM employee) who had a lot of good info on header sizing.
Now that you worded it this way ...... much different context !
Dave
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,673
Likes: 2,728
From: Atlanta GA
Simple experiment on how headers work, very simple
NSF PS if I'm not mistaken Hinsons X pipe uses the "H" type crossover instead of the "X" type, controversy there also but at least you know which is which.
NSF PS if I'm not mistaken Hinsons X pipe uses the "H" type crossover instead of the "X" type, controversy there also but at least you know which is which.
its all a science , tube length , collector design etc all to achieve a desired outcome ,
At the risk of over simplification because there are so many other factors involved , one being reversion ..., where do I want the gain to come in on the power band ?
With all things being equal do I want more power on top and a little less torque ... use large tube , do I want a little less total power but more torque on the bottom , use small tube
Last edited by Dcasole; Feb 17, 2018 at 08:39 AM.
Burning Brakes
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From: Kerrville, Texas
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2015
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From: Las Vegas Nevada
there is nothing special about the mid-pipe, but it has to fit to the headers. The mid-pipe is just tubing for the exhaust. As long as it is "X", or "H" configured, it will balance the pulses, and work fine. The exception would be when you get to maybe 500HP and more...you would want a full 3" pipe all the way. No need for that on a mostly stock LS3.
Yes, possible over-simplification, and I understand that. He is not going to Turbo/SC, and probably not a cam...
Last edited by buckmeister2; Feb 18, 2018 at 08:09 AM.