Nitrous
Thread Starter
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5
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Nitrous
I have a 09 C6 with intake, 2" race headers, no cats, X pipe and Corsa exhaust with a tune. Car makes 446whp. I just ordered a Nitrous outlet plate kit. I am going to start with a 100 shot. Is timing retard necessary?
CF Community Team
Joined: Apr 2016
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From: Pittsburgh
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With the mods that you have listed above, 446 rwhp is hard to believe...that's almost 500 crank hp depending on whether you have a A6 or a M6
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,502
Likes: 3,631
Dyno run it will data logging, and pull timing as needed to prevent engine knock.
Also, get your Nos and added fuel mixtures correct as well. With nos, the burn it going to be hotter, and added fuel goes a long way for not only the needed extra HP, but extra cooling as well.
Hence with supercharging, your adding more air pressure, but the oxygen to Nitrogen ratio's stay the same. With Nos, more oxygen in the air mix compared to nitrogen ratio, and this cause the hotter/more powerful burn isntead.
So base line, your trying to hold a AFR of 12.5, and depending on how fast the engine temp is spiking, may want to fatten that AFR up a touch isntead.
As for since your going to be running a hotter burn, this means that piston rings are going to see more heat as well, and would gap them in the plus .025" range for the top rings, and plus .030 for the lowers to prevent ring expansion that takes the rings to zero gap from the increased heat, which snaps the top of the pistons off when the rings at Zero gap heat expansion bind on the cylinder walls.
Also, you need to wire in/ tune in a fall safe system if there is a problem with added fuel loss during spray. If you spray without the needed extra fuel, not only do you have the AFR going lean as hell, but producing a ton of over-heat too.
Also, get your Nos and added fuel mixtures correct as well. With nos, the burn it going to be hotter, and added fuel goes a long way for not only the needed extra HP, but extra cooling as well.
Hence with supercharging, your adding more air pressure, but the oxygen to Nitrogen ratio's stay the same. With Nos, more oxygen in the air mix compared to nitrogen ratio, and this cause the hotter/more powerful burn isntead.
So base line, your trying to hold a AFR of 12.5, and depending on how fast the engine temp is spiking, may want to fatten that AFR up a touch isntead.
As for since your going to be running a hotter burn, this means that piston rings are going to see more heat as well, and would gap them in the plus .025" range for the top rings, and plus .030 for the lowers to prevent ring expansion that takes the rings to zero gap from the increased heat, which snaps the top of the pistons off when the rings at Zero gap heat expansion bind on the cylinder walls.
Also, you need to wire in/ tune in a fall safe system if there is a problem with added fuel loss during spray. If you spray without the needed extra fuel, not only do you have the AFR going lean as hell, but producing a ton of over-heat too.
Last edited by Dano523; Apr 30, 2018 at 03:30 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 166
From: Greenwood Indiana
im running 100 shot on my hci z and pull 2deg through a lnc box, afr is right around 11:9
but every scenario is diff. it may bog pulling 4 deg, and you may yeild only 80hp on that 100 shot.
if your trying to maximize that , the best way is to keep a VERY close eye on afr and street test it.
for instance, mine was DIALED in on a loaded dyno, but was FAT rich on the street, i played with the jets for almost an entire 10lb bottle getting it in the correct afr and not break up all the way through the pull. took it back and it picked up 130 ft lbs of tq and 98hp
"test & tune"
but every scenario is diff. it may bog pulling 4 deg, and you may yeild only 80hp on that 100 shot.
if your trying to maximize that , the best way is to keep a VERY close eye on afr and street test it.
for instance, mine was DIALED in on a loaded dyno, but was FAT rich on the street, i played with the jets for almost an entire 10lb bottle getting it in the correct afr and not break up all the way through the pull. took it back and it picked up 130 ft lbs of tq and 98hp
"test & tune"
Last edited by ~STOLEN~; Apr 30, 2018 at 09:15 AM.
Thread Starter
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5
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I am looking to be much safer and don’t mind loosing that 20hp at first until I go and Dyno the car or street tune the car. I want to make sure I don’t knock or blow anything. I am going to be using the LNC as well and figured starting with 4deg would put me at the SAFE point and maybe not the 100% power point. My AFR right now as I sit with my tune is around 11.3-11.9. What would you consider a Safe AFR on spray? I do not want to mess with my current tune as the car runs amazing and I only Want to retard timing when spraying. All other times I want the car to be as it sits. Would you also recommended doing plugs? I have 24K miles on the car total. Thanks for the info!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 1,110
From: Austin Tx
11.3-11.9, is pretty fat for an NA car. Ideally, you want to match your AFR on nitrous to your AFR on motor, or slightly fatter. I would definitely look at getting your motor tune leaned out a bit. Running too rich on nitrous is just as bad as running lean.
Start at 5-6 degrees and then you can add some back in. It depends on your total timing. I'd also throw in a bottle of octane booster when you are going to spray. Just added safety.
I recommend a set of BR6EF plugs. Definitely change them out before you spray. They are going to be one of your highest maintenance items now.
Start at 5-6 degrees and then you can add some back in. It depends on your total timing. I'd also throw in a bottle of octane booster when you are going to spray. Just added safety.
I recommend a set of BR6EF plugs. Definitely change them out before you spray. They are going to be one of your highest maintenance items now.
Racer
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 429
Likes: 71
Dyno run it will data logging, and pull timing as needed to prevent engine knock.
Also, get your Nos and added fuel mixtures correct as well. With nos, the burn it going to be hotter, and added fuel goes a long way for not only the needed extra HP, but extra cooling as well.
Hence with supercharging, your adding more air pressure, but the oxygen to Nitrogen ratio's stay the same. With Nos, more oxygen in the air mix compared to nitrogen ratio, and this cause the hotter/more powerful burn isntead.
So base line, your trying to hold a AFR of 12.5, and depending on how fast the engine temp is spiking, may want to fatten that AFR up a touch isntead.
As for since your going to be running a hotter burn, this means that piston rings are going to see more heat as well, and would gap them in the plus .025" range for the top rings, and plus .030 for the lowers to prevent ring expansion that takes the rings to zero gap from the increased heat, which snaps the top of the pistons off when the rings at Zero gap heat expansion bind on the cylinder walls.
Also, you need to wire in/ tune in a fall safe system if there is a problem with added fuel loss during spray. If you spray without the needed extra fuel, not only do you have the AFR going lean as hell, but producing a ton of over-heat too.
Also, get your Nos and added fuel mixtures correct as well. With nos, the burn it going to be hotter, and added fuel goes a long way for not only the needed extra HP, but extra cooling as well.
Hence with supercharging, your adding more air pressure, but the oxygen to Nitrogen ratio's stay the same. With Nos, more oxygen in the air mix compared to nitrogen ratio, and this cause the hotter/more powerful burn isntead.
So base line, your trying to hold a AFR of 12.5, and depending on how fast the engine temp is spiking, may want to fatten that AFR up a touch isntead.
As for since your going to be running a hotter burn, this means that piston rings are going to see more heat as well, and would gap them in the plus .025" range for the top rings, and plus .030 for the lowers to prevent ring expansion that takes the rings to zero gap from the increased heat, which snaps the top of the pistons off when the rings at Zero gap heat expansion bind on the cylinder walls.
Also, you need to wire in/ tune in a fall safe system if there is a problem with added fuel loss during spray. If you spray without the needed extra fuel, not only do you have the AFR going lean as hell, but producing a ton of over-heat too.
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Thread Starter
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5
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11.3-11.9, is pretty fat for an NA car. Ideally, you want to match your AFR on nitrous to your AFR on motor, or slightly fatter. I would definitely look at getting your motor tune leaned out a bit. Running too rich on nitrous is just as bad as running lean.
Start at 5-6 degrees and then you can add some back in. It depends on your total timing. I'd also throw in a bottle of octane booster when you are going to spray. Just added safety.
I recommend a set of BR6EF plugs. Definitely change them out before you spray. They are going to be one of your highest maintenance items now.
Start at 5-6 degrees and then you can add some back in. It depends on your total timing. I'd also throw in a bottle of octane booster when you are going to spray. Just added safety.
I recommend a set of BR6EF plugs. Definitely change them out before you spray. They are going to be one of your highest maintenance items now.
so you would consider safe NA to be anywhere from 11.7-12.3? I’m going to do plugs before my install this weekend as that seems critical as well. Do you think pulling 5/6Deg is a bit much at first? If I’m not on the Dyno or data log with HP Tuner I won’t know weather to back off timing or not will I? Do you trust the LNC-2000 as well to pull that timing? It will be connected to the WOT switch on my Nitrous kit. I wanted it set to only activate when the system is armed and all other times I want the car to run complete NA tune. Thanks for the input!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 1,110
From: Austin Tx
so you would consider safe NA to be anywhere from 11.7-12.3? I’m going to do plugs before my install this weekend as that seems critical as well. Do you think pulling 5/6Deg is a bit much at first? If I’m not on the Dyno or data log with HP Tuner I won’t know weather to back off timing or not will I? Do you trust the LNC-2000 as well to pull that timing? It will be connected to the WOT switch on my Nitrous kit. I wanted it set to only activate when the system is armed and all other times I want the car to run complete NA tune. Thanks for the input!
If you don't have a way to log the car I would definitely pull, at least, 5 degrees to start. Better to veer on the side of safety than to get aggressive with it right away. You can always add timing back, you can't take out timing if the motor blows.
I use a different method to pull my timing but the LNC will work for what you want.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
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Hate to say it, but I see your motor blown to pieces day one, blindly winging it from the start.
Racer
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 429
Likes: 71
Your already throwing in Nos without Dyno logging/tuning to get it right/close from the start, and now you want to add a meth kit in mix as well without out initial dyno tuning as well?????
Hate to say it, but I see your motor blown to pieces day one, blindly winging it from the start.
Hate to say it, but I see your motor blown to pieces day one, blindly winging it from the start.
Last edited by rsb213; May 2, 2018 at 07:08 PM.
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