Performance question for ya!!
09-19-2018, 01:30 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Performance question for ya!!
Hey everyone, I have a base C6 corvette ls2 block. So far I have dome longtube headers with a cat-less mid pipe, Cold air intake and a dyne tune. Im experiencing a loss in low end torque which I don't like. Is this related to back pressure from having no cats at all? Or what could be a reason for this. The headers I'm running are 1 7/8 to 2.5" axle back again no cats. I also have a Vitesse throttle controller could this have anything to do with it?
Furthermore looking into the next perforce upgrades for my car, how much benefit would I receive from a intake manifold such as an MSD ported manifold and a re-tune. Im shying away from a cam as of now because of reliability. What other performance upgrades would benefit the ls2. Thanks guys!!!!
Furthermore looking into the next perforce upgrades for my car, how much benefit would I receive from a intake manifold such as an MSD ported manifold and a re-tune. Im shying away from a cam as of now because of reliability. What other performance upgrades would benefit the ls2. Thanks guys!!!!
The following users liked this post:
Texan79423 (09-20-2018)
09-19-2018, 02:30 PM
#2
Headers cause the car to run leaner (they scavenge more exhaust out of the cylinders and how they produce more HP ) and you need to retune the car so the AFR is not running on the lean side during WOT instead. Also, some CAI systems cause turbulence at the Maf sensor so it not reading correctly, and that too needs to be adjust in the tune as well.
So no, its not a lack of back pressure the problem, but the fact that you have moded the engine enough that it now needs to be re-tuned correctly instead.
As for intake manifold, the OEM LS2 sucks due to the way it was produced (sonic welded from pieces), and replacing it with Fast intake will be the ticket. Not only will you pick up more top end HP, but more HP across the entire RPM band as well.
So, the way all this adds up, the LS2 makes 411HP stock. if you just tune a stock LS2, you end up with about 426hp isntead.
Now with headers and fast intake added to the math with tune, they will pick up another 35~40 Hp, ending up with the motor making around 465hp with correct tune.
The CAI does not add power, but instead prevents the intake from sucking in hotter air that will cause the motor to pull timing, and cause a loss of HP isntead.
Amount of timing pull per air temp that the motor is drawing in, and the air temp sensor is in the MAF.
Attachment 48334173
As for since you stated tune, what type, since if it was a canned tuned, bank that it did not cover either the headers, nor adjusting for the Maf less than ideal reading, and what it causing the problem with that tune isntead.
If you have the tune file, then link it, or if you have a Dyno print out with AFR and spark advance on it, then post it instead.
So no, its not a lack of back pressure the problem, but the fact that you have moded the engine enough that it now needs to be re-tuned correctly instead.
As for intake manifold, the OEM LS2 sucks due to the way it was produced (sonic welded from pieces), and replacing it with Fast intake will be the ticket. Not only will you pick up more top end HP, but more HP across the entire RPM band as well.
So, the way all this adds up, the LS2 makes 411HP stock. if you just tune a stock LS2, you end up with about 426hp isntead.
Now with headers and fast intake added to the math with tune, they will pick up another 35~40 Hp, ending up with the motor making around 465hp with correct tune.
The CAI does not add power, but instead prevents the intake from sucking in hotter air that will cause the motor to pull timing, and cause a loss of HP isntead.
Amount of timing pull per air temp that the motor is drawing in, and the air temp sensor is in the MAF.
Attachment 48334173
As for since you stated tune, what type, since if it was a canned tuned, bank that it did not cover either the headers, nor adjusting for the Maf less than ideal reading, and what it causing the problem with that tune isntead.
If you have the tune file, then link it, or if you have a Dyno print out with AFR and spark advance on it, then post it instead.
Last edited by Dano523; 09-19-2018 at 02:34 PM.
09-19-2018, 08:59 PM
#4
Race Director
Where is this 411 hp idea In the ls2 coming from?
Last edited by FAUEE; 09-19-2018 at 08:59 PM.
09-19-2018, 11:42 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Hey everyone, I have a base C6 corvette ls2 block. So far I have dome longtube headers with a cat-less mid pipe, Cold air intake and a dyne tune. Im experiencing a loss in low end torque which I don't like. Is this related to back pressure from having no cats at all? Or what could be a reason for this. The headers I'm running are 1 7/8 to 2.5" axle back again no cats. I also have a Vitesse throttle controller could this have anything to do with it?
Furthermore looking into the next perforce upgrades for my car, how much benefit would I receive from a intake manifold such as an MSD ported manifold and a re-tune. Im shying away from a cam as of now because of reliability. What other performance upgrades would benefit the ls2. Thanks guys!!!!
Furthermore looking into the next perforce upgrades for my car, how much benefit would I receive from a intake manifold such as an MSD ported manifold and a re-tune. Im shying away from a cam as of now because of reliability. What other performance upgrades would benefit the ls2. Thanks guys!!!!
The following users liked this post:
myredhead1 (09-20-2018)
09-20-2018, 01:25 AM
#7
09-20-2018, 08:48 AM
#10
Team Owner
You do not need to worry about reliability from installing a cam - go to PatG and get a custom made cam to your specifications when you fill out the answer sheet/questionnaire, you will not be disappointed https://www.guerragroup.com/camshaft-help
Yes I would definitely do a a new manifold, you could do a MSD, however a better choice might be going with a FAST and a ported TB to match it and a new DYNO Tune - The LS2 manifold is a huge choking point and very poor design, as a matter of fact even doing a LS6 manifold over the LS2 would be better
Thanks,Matt
Yes I would definitely do a a new manifold, you could do a MSD, however a better choice might be going with a FAST and a ported TB to match it and a new DYNO Tune - The LS2 manifold is a huge choking point and very poor design, as a matter of fact even doing a LS6 manifold over the LS2 would be better
Thanks,Matt
09-20-2018, 06:50 PM
#11
Race Director
Where is the proof for that? All the dynos I have ever seen show that there is a 30 to 35hp advantage over the ls2 in the ls3.
09-20-2018, 11:10 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: Bossier City Louisiana
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I agree with the 1 7/8 headers hurting the down low torque. I experienced the same thing on my N/A c5. On a naturally aspirated LS2, the 1 3/4 will perform nicely. Also a huge advocate of a ported fast as well.
09-21-2018, 01:44 AM
#13
09-22-2018, 01:32 AM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
Headers cause the car to run leaner (they scavenge more exhaust out of the cylinders and how they produce more HP ) and you need to retune the car so the AFR is not running on the lean side during WOT instead. Also, some CAI systems cause turbulence at the Maf sensor so it not reading correctly, and that too needs to be adjust in the tune as well.
https://youtu.be/NekTRPx68zs
So no, its not a lack of back pressure the problem, but the fact that you have moded the engine enough that it now needs to be re-tuned correctly instead.
As for intake manifold, the OEM LS2 sucks due to the way it was produced (sonic welded from pieces), and replacing it with Fast intake will be the ticket. Not only will you pick up more top end HP, but more HP across the entire RPM band as well.
So, the way all this adds up, the LS2 makes 411HP stock. if you just tune a stock LS2, you end up with about 426hp isntead.
Now with headers and fast intake added to the math with tune, they will pick up another 35~40 Hp, ending up with the motor making around 465hp with correct tune.
The CAI does not add power, but instead prevents the intake from sucking in hotter air that will cause the motor to pull timing, and cause a loss of HP isntead.
Amount of timing pull per air temp that the motor is drawing in, and the air temp sensor is in the MAF.
As for since you stated tune, what type, since if it was a canned tuned, bank that it did not cover either the headers, nor adjusting for the Maf less than ideal reading, and what it causing the problem with that tune isntead.
If you have the tune file, then link it, or if you have a Dyno print out with AFR and spark advance on it, then post it instead.
https://youtu.be/NekTRPx68zs
So no, its not a lack of back pressure the problem, but the fact that you have moded the engine enough that it now needs to be re-tuned correctly instead.
As for intake manifold, the OEM LS2 sucks due to the way it was produced (sonic welded from pieces), and replacing it with Fast intake will be the ticket. Not only will you pick up more top end HP, but more HP across the entire RPM band as well.
So, the way all this adds up, the LS2 makes 411HP stock. if you just tune a stock LS2, you end up with about 426hp isntead.
Now with headers and fast intake added to the math with tune, they will pick up another 35~40 Hp, ending up with the motor making around 465hp with correct tune.
The CAI does not add power, but instead prevents the intake from sucking in hotter air that will cause the motor to pull timing, and cause a loss of HP isntead.
Amount of timing pull per air temp that the motor is drawing in, and the air temp sensor is in the MAF.
As for since you stated tune, what type, since if it was a canned tuned, bank that it did not cover either the headers, nor adjusting for the Maf less than ideal reading, and what it causing the problem with that tune isntead.
If you have the tune file, then link it, or if you have a Dyno print out with AFR and spark advance on it, then post it instead.
09-22-2018, 06:31 AM
#15
Team Owner
You did see the reference to PatG and the link that I provided for the correct direction in selecting the proper parts for his current and future set-up?
Thanks,Matt
Last edited by madmatt9471; 09-22-2018 at 06:32 AM.
09-22-2018, 07:40 AM
#16
Race Director
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Vitesse and it's one of the best mods I have done to my car, allowing me to adjust the laggy throttle response exactly to my liking. The best mod was tuning out the torque management, tweaking shifting, and bumping timing in a few places with HPTuners.
09-22-2018, 11:13 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Vitesse and it's one of the best mods I have done to my car, allowing me to adjust the laggy throttle response exactly to my liking. The best mod was tuning out the torque management, tweaking shifting, and bumping timing in a few places with HPTuners.