titanium connecting rods
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
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From: Indianapolis IN
titanium connecting rods
I just came froma plant here in INDY that is making up a prototype batch of 80,000 titanium connecting rods for the "new" vette. Thats all they would tell me.
I did request a set of the T-rods if they have any left over though!
SORRY FOR THE TYPO! It should have read 80k
[Modified by ld85, 8:21 PM 12/16/2002]
I did request a set of the T-rods if they have any left over though!
SORRY FOR THE TYPO! It should have read 80k
[Modified by ld85, 8:21 PM 12/16/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 4
From: Westford MA
Re: titanium connecting rods (ld85)
Is that certain? That's pretty cool. Titanium prices have come down in the past few years, and I don't see a real reason why they couldn't use it for something like con-rods. It's already the material for the Z06 exhaust. The NSX had titanium con-rods years ago, so perhaps it's time for the vette to get them. Hope it turns out ot be true.
Scott
Scott
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
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From: Indianapolis IN
Re: titanium connecting rods (LymanSS)
Maybe they will let me take some pics when they are done making them!?
I cant say if this is going to be for full production or what, it has me wondering!
I know these guys do prototype work!
I cant say if this is going to be for full production or what, it has me wondering!
I know these guys do prototype work!
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,270
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From: Prescott AZ
Re: titanium connecting rods (Scissors)
It's a little late in the development cycle for prototype engine internals, isn't it? :confused:
[Modified by Curtis A. Franz, 9:16 AM 12/12/2002]
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
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Re: titanium connecting rods (ld85)
Let's assume these titanium rods will only go into the "optional" engine that
won't be available until '06. That's still 2.5 years away.
100 sets is probably not unreasonable for final design prototypes that will be used to prove their durability. Some will go into engines that will run on dynos, some will go into engines that will be run in cars at the test tracks, some will be used for static testing, and some will be kept as spares.
Titanium rods are a great idea as they reduce both rotating and reciprocating mass, which means less counterweight mass on the crankshaft, so their effect of reducing rotating inertia is amplified.
Duke
won't be available until '06. That's still 2.5 years away.
100 sets is probably not unreasonable for final design prototypes that will be used to prove their durability. Some will go into engines that will run on dynos, some will go into engines that will be run in cars at the test tracks, some will be used for static testing, and some will be kept as spares.
Titanium rods are a great idea as they reduce both rotating and reciprocating mass, which means less counterweight mass on the crankshaft, so their effect of reducing rotating inertia is amplified.
Duke
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,260
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From: Chapel Hill NC
Re: titanium connecting rods (ld85)
Possibly for the C-5R program? 800 would be enough to get a solid testing program and race support, at least at the beginning of the ALMS season.
There is a need to improve performance as the competition keeps getting tougher. For example, the Ferrari is plenty fast now and is getting reliable, not to mention the others in the class. :cool:
There is a need to improve performance as the competition keeps getting tougher. For example, the Ferrari is plenty fast now and is getting reliable, not to mention the others in the class. :cool:
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Indianapolis IN
Re: titanium connecting rods (I Bin Therbefor)
I was back there today, they are indeed for the C6 and they are making a base run for GM testing of 800 rods.
They will then, if they pass GM tests , go to a run of limited 80,000. This is fact, but obviously it depends on the GM test results. Production beyond that point is expected to go up to quarter then half million runs which will out grow this facility's capabilites.
I was told that the weight reduction of the rod is the issue and they called it a titanium alloy. They claim that this is prominent in Europe and that all the hi end cars in the US will be going this direction.
They will then, if they pass GM tests , go to a run of limited 80,000. This is fact, but obviously it depends on the GM test results. Production beyond that point is expected to go up to quarter then half million runs which will out grow this facility's capabilites.
I was told that the weight reduction of the rod is the issue and they called it a titanium alloy. They claim that this is prominent in Europe and that all the hi end cars in the US will be going this direction.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,914
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From: Westford MA
Re: titanium connecting rods (ld85)
ten thousand engines....I think that's about double present Z06 production. Definitely not a limited production model them. Perhaps they are planning on having all gen IV engine run titanium con-rods. Makes a lot of sense. That's some nice news. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Scott
Scott
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Re: titanium connecting rods (LymanSS)
Current Z06 production is about 7500, so they are probably looking at increasing production of the high performance C6 to 10,000. At eight rods per car that's all 80,000 rods will support, not over 30,000, which is total Corvette production
I expect more titanium rods in the future. After the fall of the Soviet Union the price of Ti dropped quite a bit as the Russions started selling their supply on the open market, and I also think they have most of the world's known ore reserves.
BTW, "titantium alloy" is correct, just as 4340 is an "alloy steel" Mixing small amount of other metallic elements in the base iron or titanium improves the properties of the finished product. Even steel is technically an alloy since it is iron with a fraction of a percent of carbon, but it is usually referred to as carbon steel or plain steel. When chromium, managese, molydenum, and other metals are added in small percentages the result is "alloy steel", and if the chromium is more than about 20 percent it is "stainless steel".
Duke
I expect more titanium rods in the future. After the fall of the Soviet Union the price of Ti dropped quite a bit as the Russions started selling their supply on the open market, and I also think they have most of the world's known ore reserves.
BTW, "titantium alloy" is correct, just as 4340 is an "alloy steel" Mixing small amount of other metallic elements in the base iron or titanium improves the properties of the finished product. Even steel is technically an alloy since it is iron with a fraction of a percent of carbon, but it is usually referred to as carbon steel or plain steel. When chromium, managese, molydenum, and other metals are added in small percentages the result is "alloy steel", and if the chromium is more than about 20 percent it is "stainless steel".
Duke
Team Owner
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From: Boston, MA
80,000 units makes 10,000 sets of rods...., not 10,000 vehicles. I would expect that they would be keeping extra crate engines on hand, and spare rod sets for cars that throw bearings or whatever else. So the same ~7,500 vehicles sounds like a more plausable end result to me.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Westford MA
Re: (scorp508)
His post said though that they are expecting volume to increase to a quarter or a half a million. One quarter million is 31250 cars. A little less that one year's production of vettes. I'd expect to see it in low volume on the Z06 (or equivilant) in the first year or two, and then expand to all Corvette engines.
Scott
Scott
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
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From: Virginia
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII Veteran
St. Jude's Donor '06
Re: (LymanSS)
His post said though that they are expecting volume to increase to a quarter or a half a million. One quarter million is 31250 cars. A little less that one year's production of vettes. I'd expect to see it in low volume on the Z06 (or equivilant) in the first year or two, and then expand to all Corvette engines.
Scott
Scott
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Re: (scorp508)
80,000 units makes 10,000 sets of rods...., not 10,000 vehicles. I would expect that they would be keeping extra crate engines on hand, and spare rod sets for cars that throw bearings or whatever else. So the same ~7,500 vehicles sounds like a more plausable end result to me.
There's certainly a chance that titanium rods could expand well beyond the Corvette high performance engine - certainly to the base engine and maybe even to the truck engines if the economies of scale work out.
Duke
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
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From: Virginia
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Re: (SWCDuke)
Now if they could just go to lighter parts in the valve train also and give us more RPMs with the same humongous torque curve...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,195
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From: East Bay CA
Re: titanium connecting rods (ld85)
Just a few thoughts. Has anyone considered that this company
may not be the sole source supplier and may actually be the
``back-up'' supplier?? Incidently, Titanium connecting rods
save about 30% in weight over steel rods.
``Titanium, the worlds 4th most abundant structural metal, exceeded
only by aluminum, iron, and magnesium. Some areas of the world
where titanium can be found are,Australia, the United States,
Canada, South Africa, Sierra Leone, Ukraine, Russia, Norway, and
Malaysia. Titanium (Ti) is the 9th most abundant element,
constituting about 0.63% of the Earth's crust.''
http://www.sae.org/automag/material/03-2001/
http://www.sae.org/automag/material/03-2001/timet.htm
http://www.stainless-steel-world.net...automotive.asp
http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=553
http://www.ms.ornl.gov/programs/ener...t-Titanium.pdf
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=263125
[Modified by Runge_Kutta, 1:07 PM 12/13/2002]
may not be the sole source supplier and may actually be the
``back-up'' supplier?? Incidently, Titanium connecting rods
save about 30% in weight over steel rods.
``Titanium, the worlds 4th most abundant structural metal, exceeded
only by aluminum, iron, and magnesium. Some areas of the world
where titanium can be found are,Australia, the United States,
Canada, South Africa, Sierra Leone, Ukraine, Russia, Norway, and
Malaysia. Titanium (Ti) is the 9th most abundant element,
constituting about 0.63% of the Earth's crust.''
http://www.sae.org/automag/material/03-2001/
http://www.sae.org/automag/material/03-2001/timet.htm
http://www.stainless-steel-world.net...automotive.asp
http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=553
http://www.ms.ornl.gov/programs/ener...t-Titanium.pdf
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=263125
[Modified by Runge_Kutta, 1:07 PM 12/13/2002]