I'm getting a (another) Tune this spring been debating back and forth a CAI (and which one) My vette is a 13 (LS3) so it already has the really good stock intake. i don't expect to gain much and I'm frugal (airaid/SLP) ideally i want that MAF further forward (haltech) for the cooler air. She runs pretty hot (so not the varam?)

i want this to be the LAST Dyno i pay for... so if im gonna do a CAI i need to do it now, i could be talked into leaving it stock... that surface area is less than 1/2 any after market, if i ever put on more power adders i imagine it could start to become a factor.

I rebuilt my engine 2 years ago, Cam (BRT red hot) LT headers and some valvetrain stability upgrades. I had a mail in tune i bought from Michigan Motorsports where i bought the rest of my parts... honestly it ran better on the mail in tune than it does now,

I have since had it on the dyno and tuned at a local place down in TN, I told the guy i want max longevity and reliability out of the car and i don't really care about MAX horsepower. Regardless It has a pretty nasty rocking and lope and idle, not very usable low end power and it bucks at low rpm on the highway. it also does this weird keeping the RPM up even after i push in the clutch? i have to touch the brake or reclutch to get the rpm's to drop since this guy tuned it. Hoping this next round of tune it can be made it a bit less rowdy, and more streetable.

Anyways, i guess it is just another CIA thread.... which one best fits my application?

Only one i have any negatives about is the Varam as im already pushing the temps pretty high climbing mountains in the summer, SLP and Airaid are cheap but the MAF seems to be in the stock location, i have no hesitation paying 300$ but Haltech is hard to justify the 600$, (if you'd recommend Haltech, which filter?) I see no advantage to K&N and personally i don't like the brand. i already have a pretty nice homemade shroud i would adapt to fit whatever CAI i get.

P.S. wtf is going on with dyno tunes? i called around and 1100$, 900 for a street tune and even 1300$ another guy "needs to look at it before he can give me a price" then i found a super big, far more reputable place 2 hours north $400 for street $600 for dyno. Well worth the drive 5x over. Same thing in TN, couple places charging around 400-600 and the rest all wanting well over 1 thousand. Crazy cost for 30 minutes of "work" and noone doing it in the middle for anything 700-900 range. Are they just hoping you don't call around or do they think they are worth 3x the cost?

 

I personally like the Halltech MF103 killer bee intake for an LS3 or an LS7

 

Whichever intake you decide on, the only gain to my knowledge is the reduced intake air temps which allow for more timing to be ran (hence the minimal horsepower gain). The stock LS3 intake flows plenty, it’s just a matter or getting the cold outside air into the intake and not breathing the hot engine compartment air. Your tuner can adjust exactly how much timing the car pulls as air intake temps increase but need to monitor for knock carefully if you mess with these. Once intake temps start to increase over 120 degrees the car starts pulling major timing back and thats where the cai allows for gains by keeping those temps closer to ambient. Also the throttle hanging sounds like he messed with the throttle follower or “cracker” so it doesn’t die out when you let off the throttle with the clutch in etc.

 

I’ll make this an easier decision for you….. you dont need a tune with pretty much all intakes unless they start pulling in a metric ton of air.
So no rush.

also you wont gain much with an intake anyway, but personally I went with the Halltech with beehive for all the reasons to mentioned above

 

Thanks, which color filter did you get?

 

Even if they hang at 2k-3k RPM? soon as i clutch again or touch the brake they drop and it idles fine around 900. I could see how the RPM's hanging would be helpful if you are a bit slow on the gear changes. Its just weird, ive been driving a manual forever and its just unexpected.

Idk if it was TN or the new cam/LT headers but she runs real hot, the shroud helped a bit but i think the LS3 intake is pulling as much cold air as it can from down in that pocket.

Haltech is very nice fit and finish, quality intake. but if they are all going to be minimal gains is it really worth the extra 300$? Im really not concerned what looks pretty. Washable filter would be nice, i already replaced the paper filter once and it wasnt cheap. 3 times and the CAI pays for itself.

 

Mostly for the MaF location? Its what im leaning towards but that price is hard to swallow if essentially zero difference between that and the SLP that is 300$ less.

 

$300 less? Jesus, how much are halltechs now?

The beehive and maf location is why makes these ideal.
i grabbed a used one and im probably $150-200 in on the deal, so it was a no brainer for me.

At the end of the day was it worth it? Probably not, but just the beehive itself and the ability to clean the filter to me was worth it.

 

200$??? wtf??? absolute steal. Ive been checking ebay for 6+ months now, no dice... there is actually one up right now but i cant even tell what color the filter was supposed to be its so dirty and banged up... dude wants 350$... Haltech is 619$ new now.... like i said i got the homemade shroud already i could adapt so i hate to pay for that. (honestly mine looks cooler too)

If only the SLP or Ariad put the maf up further it would be a no brainer to save the 300$

 

i only buy things that are absolute steals anymore. I don’t “need” anything, so i just wait things out until the price is right.
I got brand new ARH longtubes and catted mid pipe and carbon k&n intake for $1300 shipped.Then sold off the intake for like $365, so I am under $1k in on longtubes too.

I got a a set of forged wheels for $1k with tires and then flipped them for like $2600 and got a better set for $1600.

It’s all about the flip. Lol

 

It needs tuning. The bucking on the highway is a bad injector end angle. the hanging when you press the clutch is failing to tune throttle cracker and base airflow tables while rolling.
If you are interested in reliability you will
1. install OEM intake air filter system and air filter paper OEM element
2. Make sure cam lift is low near OEM and has a slow ramp rate and low spring pressure near OEM
3. Coat the exhaust and shield / blankets for insulation to keep the underhood air temps down

Cold air intake systems and aftermarket air filters interfere with OEM Crankcase pressure settings at wide open throttle which increases oil contamination and deposits forming leading to increased wear and eventual failure (high mileage examples will be more heavily polluted) this will also impact piston ring sealing behavior post combustion stroke and oil drainage from rings which will increase cylinder bore wear in due course of high mileage
Cold air entering also can interfere with fuel vaporization and distribution of air which leads to carbon deposit forming in and around the cylinders/intake valves and piston rings

Crazy aint it, how the factory set it up for success and then we ruin it without even realizing it

 

Yea i have a hard time squaring the tens maybe hundred of thousands of miles i eliminated from this vehicle by putting on these upgrades.

I was kind of duped on the Red Hot... when i spoke with the parts dealer i said pretty clearly i wanted "something like a mild stage 2" they recommended this Red hot cam which ive found really lands as like a stage 2.5 at best. TBH im not a fan. Far too late now. I think the "cam lift near OEM" ship has sailed.

Well this is definitely the best argument for leaving the intake stock and if i feel like i must change it to go with a cheap CAI since it doesn't really matter performance wise and the longevity of my car is already sunk off the cam anyways.

Thanks again, ill stew on it a bit longer.

 

Well, you wont see any “gains” with an intake but think of this, you wont see any losses as you will with the stock intake especially in hotter weather. For example my stock ls2 intake (which isnt the best) in the summertime can see intake temps as high as 140 degrees heat soaking and it’s still pulling in warm air even when moving so it will be pulling major timing (hence the horsepower loss). With a cold air intake your intake temps will be much closer to ambient air temp once you start moving therefore not pulling any timing or minimal at that. Your tuner can adjust how much timing it pulls according to intake temps but you have to be careful because you can get real knock if you get too aggressive. On a hot heat soaked day with intake temps approaching 140 degrees under the hood I was only seeing 12-14 degrees max timing wot, get those temps down to 90 degrees and you’ll be seeing about 10 degrees more timing hence the 10 hp “gains” etc etc. Hopefully this makes a little more sense…

 

Yep this has been my understanding. I have moved to MI recently, not as worried about those Temps like TN. I was seeing some real hot oil under some pretty casual driving up the mountains.... i want to say i saw 280 once, just poking along with the car club doing like 30 uphill, not the best for airflow.

I think the stock Ls3 pulls pretty low, don't think i have much to gain cold air wise outside the shroud/bee hive. You would think that surface area at least 2-3x the amount of exposed filter would help it breath better but i suppose not.

 

A factory plastic intake manifold is insulating by design. It is not like a metal intake that transfer heat easily to air when sitting. The OEM plastic intake are intended/designed to run about 135*F iirc at all times no matter what the operating condition is, because they do not easily warm or cool being an insulating plastic material. You can verify this temp with an IR thermometer on a fully warmed engine.

The issue for over-heating air is
1. Slow moving air
2. Engine bay heat

For #2 insulation is a must. Header coating/wrap/insulations. Heat shields. Thick walled tubes. Quality thick headers is a must. Insulation around the engine and exhaust.
These control the underhood air. which controls the incoming IAT.

For #1 I will argue that a cold air intake is not necessary with some simple math.
Lets take the cubic feet of typical engine bay at 15 cubic feet.
If the engine is 6Liters, cid*rpm/3456 It can move:
211Cubic feet of air at 2,000rpm
316CFM at 3000rpm
422CFM at 4000rpm
527CFM @ 5000rpm
632CFM @ 6000rpm

Time to clear engine bay of hot air = VolEnginebay / CFM * 60sec
For a 15 cubic feet engine bay, that means
At 2000rpm it takes 4.3 seconds to clear the engine bay of air at wide open throttle
3000rpm = 2.8 seconds at WOT
4000rpm = 2.1 sec WOT
5000rpm = 1.4 sec WOT

So even if the engine bay has 150*F air and the air intake is right in the center of it,
It only takes 2 to 3 seconds at WOT for the engine to clear that air out of the engine bay after which the incoming air is replaced by ambient air temp air from outside.

The reason the engine seems to lag and have poor response is often a heat soaked intake air temp sensor. For my turbocharged customers I always place the intake air temp sensor with a plastic insulating washer into the aluminum pipe(high heat transfer rate out of the pipe) just before the throttle body. The Issue with the OEM Intake air temp sensor is they are often located deep within the plastic insulating maf sensor which cannot shed heat easily even when the air temp changes rapidly - the same as the intake manifold. A simple relocation of the IAT is all that would be needed to 'fix' this 'issue' - not a cold air intake system which disrupts so many critical systems of the engine (filtering debris, PCV action/ oil cleaning, distribution/vaporization, carbon control, etc...)

 

^ Your calculations are eye opening. Nice job of explaining the rate of air turnover by RPM.

 

Where would be a good place to relocate the iat on a stock intake or is it even possible?

 

Any LS can relocate the IAT you simply buy a quality Proper IAT sensor and re-locate the wires from the maf to the sensor wherever you placed it

Find the iat wires using a pinout for the vehicle or maf sensor there are many tutorial I am sure

No every LS ever made has the iat in the maf though so find the wires and by the wire color and continuity. Usually if the maf has a IAT i think its 5-wires on the maf is a give away.



A good spot is in a pipe before the intake manifold. Usually use an aluminum pipe. You could add an aluminum pipe instead of plastic if needed. I would need to see existing plumbing to make a recommendation each car is different I tune on myriad vehicles all different plumbing