Observations.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Queens NY
Observations.
Not sure if this has been discussed before. If it has, I apologize. I was just leafing through the December Car and Driver when I noticed an ad for the new Chevy Malibu. The ad makes mention of the Malibu's structural rigidity which is listed as "25.5-hertz first structural mode, a 27.3-hertz body bending frequency and a 33-hertz torsional frequency." Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe these numbers significantly outdo same for the C5 (23-Hertz roof in and 21-Hertz Convertible or roof out) . Given the Corvette's importance in GM's lineup it certainly bodes well for the structural rigidity rating of the C6.
Second, I just saw a road test of the new Pontiac GTO on The Car Connection's website. At the end of the test they say the price of the automatic version of this car will include a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. ???!!! Doesn't GM have a standing rule against gas guzzler taxes on their production cars (does not apply to GMs trucks)? Did I miss something or has Maximum Bob gotten GM to bend a significant rule, the flexibility of which could mean big things for the future power rating of upcoming Corvettes?
:skep: Whatever is the General up to? Hmmmm...
Second, I just saw a road test of the new Pontiac GTO on The Car Connection's website. At the end of the test they say the price of the automatic version of this car will include a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. ???!!! Doesn't GM have a standing rule against gas guzzler taxes on their production cars (does not apply to GMs trucks)? Did I miss something or has Maximum Bob gotten GM to bend a significant rule, the flexibility of which could mean big things for the future power rating of upcoming Corvettes?
:skep: Whatever is the General up to? Hmmmm...
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
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From: Virginia
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St. Jude's Donor '06
Re: Observations. (Bwright)
Not sure if this has been discussed before. If it has, I apologize. I was just leafing through the December Car and Driver when I noticed an ad for the new Chevy Malibu. The ad makes mention of the Malibu's structural rigidity which is listed as "25.5-hertz first structural mode, a 27.3-hertz body bending frequency and a 33-hertz torsional frequency." Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe these numbers significantly outdo same for the C5 (23-Hertz roof in and 21-Hertz Convertible or roof out) . Given the Corvette's importance in GM's lineup it certainly bodes well for the structural rigidity rating of the C6.
Second, I just saw a road test of the new Pontiac GTO on The Car Connection's website. At the end of the test they say the price of the automatic version of this car will include a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. ???!!! Doesn't GM have a standing rule against gas guzzler taxes on their production cars (does not apply to GMs trucks)? Did I miss something or has Maximum Bob gotten GM to bend a significant rule, the flexibility of which could mean big things for the future power rating of upcoming Corvettes?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2003
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Re: Observations. (Bwright)
I just saw a road test of the new Pontiac GTO on The Car Connection's website. At the end of the test they say the price of the automatic version of this car will include a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. ???!!! Doesn't GM have a standing rule against gas guzzler taxes on their production cars (does not apply to GMs trucks)? Did I miss something or has Maximum Bob gotten GM to bend a significant rule, the flexibility of which could mean big things for the future power rating of upcoming Corvettes?
:skep: Whatever is the General up to? Hmmmm...
:skep: Whatever is the General up to? Hmmmm...
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2002
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Re: Observations. (Scissors)
More of a rule of thumb than an actual rule.
GM has (had?) a STRICT rule about never selling a car that would be hit with a gas guzzler tax. At least, that's what I got out of ACAR. I guess they changed the rule for the GTO?
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
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From: Virginia
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St. Jude's Donor '06
Re: Observations. (Bwright)
More of a rule of thumb than an actual rule.
Mmmm, no. Checked Pontiac's website. It is a fact.
:hurray:
Mmmm, no. Checked Pontiac's website. It is a fact.
:hurray:
[Modified by Scissors, 6:01 PM 11/10/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Westford MA
Re: Observations. (GDP)
I don't know how you all missed (or forgot) this. GM has a strict rule that no GM vehicle be subject to the Gas Guzzler tax. Prior to the GTO, only two american cars actually were subject to this tax. Those were the Mustang Cobra and the Viper. In general it seems that American car companies try pretty hard to avoid the gas guzzler tax. In the case of the GTO, GM decided to make an exception to this rule, specifically for the GTO. I think this happened for two reasons. First, Bob Lutz was the man pulling for the car. Second, they were predicting slightly over 300 hp at first, which would not have been enough for this car. In order to make it perform up to expectations they needed 350 (at least). That hurt fuel economy, but they accepted it because this is a halo vehicle.
They made specific announcements about this fact at least six months ago. Hope that info helps.
Scott
They made specific announcements about this fact at least six months ago. Hope that info helps.
Scott
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From: Virginia
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Re: Observations. (GDP)
GM has (had?) a STRICT rule about never selling a car that would be hit with a gas guzzler tax. At least, that's what I got out of ACAR. I guess they changed the rule for the GTO?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2003
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Re: Observations. (Scissors)
I, also, just checked the Pontiac site re GTO.
6 Speed manual = 17City, 29 highway, combined 24.8 MPG equals NO Guzzler tax
4sp / OD Auto = 16City, 21 Highway, combined 21.5 MPG (<gotta be a typo on their site) equals a stated gas gusler tax of $1,000
Many things have changed under Lutz it appears. They have it set up so that I cannot copy here, sorry.
[Modified by LongTimer, 10:54 PM 11/10/2003]
6 Speed manual = 17City, 29 highway, combined 24.8 MPG equals NO Guzzler tax
4sp / OD Auto = 16City, 21 Highway, combined 21.5 MPG (<gotta be a typo on their site) equals a stated gas gusler tax of $1,000
Many things have changed under Lutz it appears. They have it set up so that I cannot copy here, sorry.
[Modified by LongTimer, 10:54 PM 11/10/2003]
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From: Virginia
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St. Jude's Donor '06
Re: Observations. (LongTimer)
I, also, just checked the Pontiac site re GTO.
6 Speed manual = 17City, 29 highway, combined 24.8 MPG equals NO Guzzler tax
4sp / OD Auto = 16City, 21 Highway, combined 21.5 MPG (<gotta be a typo on their site) equals a stated gas gusler tax of $1,000
Many things have changed under Lutz it appears. They have it set up so that I cannot copy here, sorry.
6 Speed manual = 17City, 29 highway, combined 24.8 MPG equals NO Guzzler tax
4sp / OD Auto = 16City, 21 Highway, combined 21.5 MPG (<gotta be a typo on their site) equals a stated gas gusler tax of $1,000
Many things have changed under Lutz it appears. They have it set up so that I cannot copy here, sorry.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Forked River N.J.
Re: Observations. (Bwright)
Second, I just saw a road test of the new Pontiac GTO on The Car Connection's website. At the end of the test they say the price of the automatic version of this car will include a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. ???!!! Doesn't GM have a standing rule against gas guzzler taxes on their production cars (does not apply to GMs trucks)? Did I miss something or has Maximum Bob gotten GM to bend a significant rule, the flexibility of which could mean big things for the future power rating of upcoming Corvettes?
[Modified by ghostRder, 5:25 PM 11/10/2003]
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,575
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Re: Observations. (ghostRder)
Based on what? R/T Dec 03 has the GTO at 19 MPG & hwy at 27 MPG so what the guide line for a gass guzzler?
[Modified by ghostRder, 5:25 PM 11/10/2003]
[Modified by ghostRder, 5:25 PM 11/10/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Wellington, New Zealand
Re: Observations. (Scissors)
More of a rule of thumb than an actual rule.
Mmmm, no. Checked Pontiac's website. It is a fact.
:hurray:
If it is a fact that GM has a rule against gas guzzler, then why does a new GM car have the gas guzzler tax?
Mmmm, no. Checked Pontiac's website. It is a fact.
:hurray:
If it is a fact that GM has a rule against gas guzzler, then why does a new GM car have the gas guzzler tax?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 0
Re: Observations. (Sanctuary)
Because the car is not actually manufactured by Pontiac - it is built by Holden and trying to fix the milage would mean a lot of re-development. Honestly, I'm surprised that the car gets that economy with the auto. Maybe it's just the way they test them over there?
This is now the GTO section of the C6 forum :D
[Modified by LongTimer, 1:17 AM 11/11/2003]
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Richmond Texas
Re: Observations. (LongTimer)
Because the car is not actually manufactured by Pontiac - it is built by Holden and trying to fix the milage would mean a lot of re-development. Honestly, I'm surprised that the car gets that economy with the auto. Maybe it's just the way they test them over there?
Holden is actually using a US spec drivetrains that are federally qualified here in the states. 7.5 MPG seems like a stiff Automatic penalty to me. I wonder if the Auto has a different differential?
This is now the GTO section of the C6 forum :D
[Modified by LongTimer, 1:17 AM 11/11/2003]
Holden is actually using a US spec drivetrains that are federally qualified here in the states. 7.5 MPG seems like a stiff Automatic penalty to me. I wonder if the Auto has a different differential?
This is now the GTO section of the C6 forum :D
[Modified by LongTimer, 1:17 AM 11/11/2003]
p.s. sorry, i think that is a runon!
Race Director
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Re: Observations. (bigblockbob)
The Malibu probably sets new records for midsize sedan stiffness, particularly in it's price class. Ten years ago a 25 Hz first mode was considered excellent and what Olds used as a target for the Aurora. Automotive engineers are constantly aiming at higher goals!
I expect the C6 will improve on the C5 structural mode numbers, especially the Z06.
GM's broke there "never pay the guzzler tax" vow in the late eighties when the Allante got tagged.
GTO's with automatic pay the guzzler tax.
The whole idea of the guzzler tax on cars is ridiculous with all the gas guzzling trucks disguised as passenger cars running around. Write your Congressman if you see the same idiocy as I do in the gas guzzler tax.
I made a presentation to my Congressman's staff on incongruities of safety and fuel economy standards for "cars" and "trucks" with particular attention to passenger vehicles that masquarade as trucks and don't have to meet the same safety, emission, and fuel economy standards. Three months later he was voted out of office! I decided trying to talk any sense into his successor, Jane Harmon, was a waste of time.
Duke
I expect the C6 will improve on the C5 structural mode numbers, especially the Z06.
GM's broke there "never pay the guzzler tax" vow in the late eighties when the Allante got tagged.
GTO's with automatic pay the guzzler tax.
The whole idea of the guzzler tax on cars is ridiculous with all the gas guzzling trucks disguised as passenger cars running around. Write your Congressman if you see the same idiocy as I do in the gas guzzler tax.
I made a presentation to my Congressman's staff on incongruities of safety and fuel economy standards for "cars" and "trucks" with particular attention to passenger vehicles that masquarade as trucks and don't have to meet the same safety, emission, and fuel economy standards. Three months later he was voted out of office! I decided trying to talk any sense into his successor, Jane Harmon, was a waste of time.
Duke