I don't think the C6 is exotic at all. When the C5 came out I wished it was more exotic looking too. Both look very tame to me. GM should stop building them as traveling cars and also stop trying to build the car for everyone. The car should have cutting edge technology and be very aggressive in looks. It should scare the pants off the competition, just standing still.

Take a look at the C3's, take a good look. Now remember during those times, nothing else like it was on the road. It was exotic and ahead of it's time. It had a very aggressive look to it and you knew it was fast.


[Modified by Shylor, 4:22 PM 7/4/2004]

 

By 1975, the C3 was a sheep in wolf's clothing. Emission standards and low octane gas had robbed the Corvette of its power.

The genius behind the C2 and C3 design was Bill Mitchell. He was GM's desing Czar and could push through anything by sheer force of will. Bill Mitchell's design staff dicatated what the Corvette would look like and then engineering had to put a car under it.

Today, it's just the reverse. Engineering dictates how the car must perform and design must fit a body over it.




[Modified by Doughan, 7:47 PM 7/4/2004]

 

Yes this is true but, the body style was still ahead of it's time and looked very aggressive. The Corvette needs to bring this back and be more exotic.

 

My point is that design no longer controls what the Corvette will be. The C3 was a classic design and far ahead of its time. However, the engines suffered from heating problems and it had a horrible coefficient of drag.

Today, the Corvette design is decided by committee and focus groups after engineering tells them what the wheelbase, length and width will be.

 

And that is a shame. Wonder why the Lambo guys don't have these restrictions?

 

First of all I said "sometimes breath taking line..." this meaning "line of cars" not just looks by any means because I tend to agree with many of you about the "look" of current BMW (except the 6 & 7 series), but I speak of their attention to performance both reality and perception. 88% the people who buy BMW or Audi don't ever bury the gas pedal or take a hell of a corner, yet BMW is considered, and in all fairness is one hell of a great driving performance/refined auto. The C5 is certainly magnificent and Caddy is jumping way back on board, but when I speak of GM, I speak of the entire company. I mean would the over 55 crowd who Buick is targeting really squawk at a car that not only rides well but looks as good as the LS430. Could Pontiac have done a better job with the design of the Grand Prix and GTO. Hell their best looking car, the Bonneville, styling was practically stolen by Acura and better executed with much more tight lines. And why is the Cad. Sixteen, Chevy Nomad, and Saturn Curve not being produced or taking so long to make it to the market?

My point is that everyone is taking chances and market share while General sits back and lets them do it. Hell look at their eroding TRUCK share. They have nothing ready until 2006, by then the Dodge Ram and Ford F will be 3 years old.




[Modified by cmicasa, 10:13 PM 7/4/2004]

 

The Lambo guys aren't trying to build a car that is relatively affordable and meets ULEV standards and doesn't get hit with the gas guzzler tax.

 

To me the C6 is truer to the Corvette then the C5, the leaping fenders, the muscular look, the pinched waste. Performance oriented lights, power, and handling. It took me all of 10 seconds to love the C6. And the only reason it took that long was because of the shock of realizing my beautiful C5 had instantly become dated.

 

I was only talking about just the body style, not the engine.

 

I'll sum up this styling debate:

I love/hate/indifferent to the C6s styling. I think GM really succeeded/dropped the ball/did an ok job with it. I loved/hated it instantly/after awhile.

You suck/rock/aren't bad GM!

Now on to more interesting matters.

 

I will say this, I am warming up to the looks of the C6, even though it isn't nearly as exotic as I wished it would be. Now if they can just get rid of that silver color in the console trim.

 

The C5 is certainly magnificent and Caddy is jumping way back on board, but when I speak of GM, I speak of the entire company.

It's a big company. They've got a lot of ground to cover. Buick is next in line. Picking on Pontiac for a pre-Lutz redo (which is quite good considering) and a lightning-fast retrofit of a foreign-market car is hardly fair. Neither is saying the Bonneville's styling is better executed with much more tight lines on a smaller car. (Duh.) So you don't like Pontiac's brand of excitement. Move on.

And why is the Cad. Sixteen, Chevy Nomad, and Saturn Curve not being produced or taking so long to make it to the market?

The ultra-lux market is oversaturated. GM is wise not to enter it.
Chevy Nomad and Saturn Curve were SHOW cars. But Saturn is getting a version of the Solstice. The Solstice is a brand-new car coming to market very quickly -- next year. If you think they're taking a long time, you need to learn more about what it takes to bring a new car to market.

GM is not sitting back -- they're racing forward. They're recovering from a very lean period that left parts of the company gutted, and they're doing it under the burden of financial liabilities left over from a much larger organization (pensions).

By the way, the trucks get new engines this year, including displacement on demand. That's not nothing. And 2006 is just one model year away.

Take a longer view. That's what the company has to do to excel, and that's what you have to do to appreciate it.

In the meantime, you could do worse than to buy one of the cars that has already benefitted from the renaissance.

.Jinx

 

To acheive good gas mileage, the Corvette has to get a low coefficeint of drag. This greatly dictates what the body will look like.

 

What on earth are CAHOUNAS? Do you mean cajones, Spanish for nuts?

 

Hey mang....are you two "casas" related ???

 

Hey Hombre, You didn't pay attention to my location, west of you! The "other guy" must be a Yankee. What does "mang" mean or just a "typo"?

 

Hey, relatives can spread out.

mang ....... it's slang.......you know...it makes me look kewl when I use teh mang word.

 

thanks for the correction. I was way to lazy to look it up.

And yes I consider myself a Yankee but many feel that Maryland is a southern state. I guess technically it is. Baltimoreans and Washingtonians would probably argue that they are definitely "Blue Coats".

 

man u make some excellent points, but I have been waiting for GM to turn around since they killed off the Buick Reatta, a car that is gorgeous to this day. The car had a couple of issues and did not sell 100,000. and the Fiero. instead of fixing problems they bailed on the market and Toyota (MR-2) and Mazda (Miata) took the compact sports car to a new level of sales. Hey GM have you ever heard of niche cars. Oh yeah I guess they have (SSR) What in the name of J-SUS. Kill off the Camaro instead of improving/restyling. Kill off Olds instead of renaming. BTW Olds sales were not that bad they were just down compared to 18 years ago (what American brand is not?)

As far as the ultra-lux market being over crowded. Let's see: Maybach, Maserati, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Jag, but not Cadillac. I don't know; it just makes sense to me since none of these manufacturers produces extreme numbers of their $100K+ cars and even producing 3000 SIXTEENS with 550HP I bet there would be a waiting list because of the quick sell out. Even still the current gap between Caddy's most expensive car, the XLR (standard), and $100K is $almost $25K. Don't you think they need something in between? The Sixteen sold at $98K (the same as a W12 VW Phaeton, yes VOLKSWAGON) would make a hell of a profit.

 

The Reatta was a $40,000 front-wheel drive two-seater.

The Fiero ran for five years. It probably saved Pontiac, bringing in customers when there was little else to be excited about. But the car's construction was too unique for its own good. It was a shame they killed it before a few could escape with the 180hp Quad Four engine, but it was right for GM to let it go. Keep in mind that in 1988 GM was hemorrhaging money -- investing in retooling the Fiero would not have been smart. BTW, the MR2 hardly thrived. And the Miata thrived because it was (duh) a convertible, something the Fiero simply could not be.

Thank God they killed the F-Body. It was quite frankly an embarassment -- relentlessly cheap interior, body tolerances on par with Monster Garage. The GTO is worlds better, and it's a quickie Frankenstein -- imagine how much better its replacement will be. In F-Body's place we're getting a much more sophisticated rear-drive platform.

Oldsmobile is a shame, but there isn't room in the market for all of GM's brands to excel. Olds could only have succeeded at the expense of the other brands. Think about it: if Chevy delivers solid no-nonsense value a la Honda/Toyota, if Pontiac delivers a domestic sporting character a la VW/BMW/Acura, if Buick delivers traditional American luxury a la Lexus, if Cadillac delivers European refinement a la BMW/Mercedes, where does Olds fit?

Niche cars? Okay, the SSR got a last-minute vasectomy when the 6.0L became the 5.3L and they couldn't get the weight down, but it's there. The Solstice comes next year at twenty grand, with a Saturn variant soon after. How many inexpensive niches do other manufacturers fill? Higher up the price scale, GM represents: GTO. CTS-V. Z06. H2. Then there's the Avalanche and Envoy pop-top. You can't say they're not trying.

Ultra-lux: The Sixteen show car for a hundred grand at a profit? Gimme some of whatever you're smoking. But you're in the right price range. What really lives there is a traditional four-door luxury sedan with a V12 engine -- see BMW 760iL, Mercedes S600. That's what Cadillac needs to reach. Unfortunately, they have nothing to stretch to that market yet. They need a new DeVille with the XV12. But first, the STS needs to succeed.

Patience, Daniel-san.

.Jinx