Depending on options the C5 has up to 10 modules that communicate with one another over the serial data line...The C6 has up to 20,and no more on board diagnostics I think its time to retire

 

So then a C-6 has much more potential to have problems than a C-5? That is not good. Then how about a 68 Corvette totally mechanical in nature no electronics or computers would one have less problems with this car or a 68-72 Corvette during the Nixon era if the C-3 car was in excellent condition or restored given the factor it has age against it?

 

Ah the uninformed. Always good to know the peanut gallery is intact.

 

Engine Control Module Programming and Setup
Steering Column Control Module Programming and Setup
Cooling Fan Control Module Programming and Setup
Remote Control Door Lock Receiver Programming and Setup
Memory Seat Control Module Programming and Setup
Body Control Module Programming and Setup
Head Up Display Programming and Setup
Throttle Actuator Control Module Programming and Setup
Door Control Module Programming and Setup
Folding Top Control Module Programming and Setup
Electronic Suspension Control Module Programming and Setup
Digital Radio Receiver Programming and Setup
Heated Seat Control Module Programming and Setup
Electronic Brake Control Module Programming and Setup
Transmission Control Module Programming and Setup
Communication Interface Module (OnStar) Programming and Setup
HVAC Control Module Programming and Setup
Instrument Panel Cluster Programming and Setup
Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic Module Programming and Setup

 

So which is going to be the more reliable the 68 to 72 327,350, 427, or 454? one of these or the new high tech C-6 ?? The magnetic shocks on the F-55 option replacement costs are $500 to $750 Retail per shock. but that there option alone could be a bit gimicky what do you think of the F-55 vs. base suspension in new C-6? What we have here is the new vs. the old classic. The new is high tech will outperform the old in every performance category except in style which is personal, appreciation in value $$$ for the classic as the new will depreciate like every other new car out there. But then again we expect the new to be RELIABLE at least more reliable than a restored C-3 right? Advantages vs. disadvantages of the C-6 vs. the C-3 68 to 72 the Nixon Era.

 

I wonder what was the reason for GM not to display codes in the DIC. Seems like a huge step backwards from the C5 to have to take your C6 back to the dealer for every idiot light that lights up to find out what the problem is .

 

Here is some good advice. If you are so worried about the modern technology in the C6, don't buy one. Then all your worries are gone. Have fun with those ancient points and condenser, voltage regulators, and high current switches, gas guzzling carbs, and idiot lights.

 

The C6 still is able to be fully diagnosed by a computer on the floor however correct ?

 

Pardon me LS WON, with all your disparaging remarks, practically incessant ranting (and hand wringing) about the suspension options, and your constant leaps into psycho-intuitive bull-babble, just why the H3LL are you even buying a C6??? Uh, you did say you have one on order, right???

Congratulations, you're actually beginning to grate worse than a certain ...XPert we used to have to contend with!!!

b

 

One would like to think so but it is not that easy. Here are some of the things that can make it challenging. Sorry but I'm a software engineer and can't help myself here.

a) The diagnosis ability is only as is the sensor coverage. (e.g Read the earlier post about the test for active handling that says it works -- when the driver knows that it does not. If I read them correctly the control switch and wiring were not covered by the test. Software change pending.).

b) Sometimes the problem can be in the diagnosis logic itself (good design can minimize or offset this). An example of minimizing the effect is having tests for open circuits in the sensors.

c) Sometimes adaptive systems compensate for problems in ways that can make the real problem very hard to find. This is usually handed by involved step-by-step testing and component isolation. Check out the GM service manual for a C5 (the C6 should look similar when you can get it)

d) Sometimes the software and test logic itself has bugs

e) Sometimes the system has common mode problems that make isolation very difficulty - read the posts about the effects of bad grounds, battery problems, or water/battery acid in the computer wiring.

f) Sometimes there are multiple problems. These can be harder to find than a single problem.

g) Murphy's law has not been repealed yet no matter how hard we try. If NASA can't do it, I doubt that GM is going to.

 

Just to be clear since an argument seems to be brewing...

I am not saying more computers is better or worse than less. Just that it not not a magic solution. It is more stuff to potentially break some day but normally they are very reliable.

Also I really hated changing points every 3K on my '68 gto or adjusting multiple carbs on several TR4's and a TR8. I would not want to go back there again.

 

barek haven't you herd, he switched to a Mustang or so he said in another post

 

You mean you dont have him on your ignore list yet? I see he is apparently keeping his record intact by screwing every thread he gets involved with. Have you noticed how many threads just end with his last post?

 

Sorry for the double post, server is acting up.

 

I had Mallory dual points on my '73. They where a pain in the butt, I was adjusting them all the time. Finally, I simply yanked out the distributor and threw in a basic chevy electronic deal that a motorhead friend had in a bucket of old parts. After that, the car ran fantastic and it only cost me a case of beer.

Dana

 

For those who don't understand how the computers do their thing, it can be frustrating to say the least. It must seem like black magic that is impossible to deal with. Most technicians haven't a clue what is happening unless another computer tells them. Understanding how computers communicate, calculate, adapt to changing driving conditions is not intuitive by any means.
With that being said, all of those modules communicating with each other is not a bad thing. It allows on board diagnostics to centralize without the danger of catastrophic failure of any one module bringing down the whole system. The more you break it up the better, so instead of replacing one big expensive unit after a failure, you replace a less expensive module. Also make for easier upgrades.
Now when multiple system fail, what most techs don't understand there will be a common denominator. And that is usually power or ground. Computers don't like flaky power. depending on design, it can cause memory loss, rebooting(starting from "0"), skipping instructions (there is an instruction pointer than can get corrupted), just to name a few.
The good part is if a computers instructions work on one car they will work on the rest. Then any problems turn into hardware, which most techs can troubleshoot without much more than some sort of diagnostic tool.
So take away all the computers and solid state electronics, and what is left? Gas guzzling, polluting, low horsepower, unreliable, inconsistent running, hard starting, flooding, plug fouling, spitball timing, vacuum operated, engine knocking, high octane required, bad braking, inaccurate gaged, switch burning, constant maintenance cars that might make it easier for an untrained grease monkey to work on. Oh Joy.

 

Yeah but its a LAN bus now, a little more fun.

 

A friend of mine just had his chevy truck in for a couple of repair attempts eventually they found a data cable that had some insulation worn off so that it would short out sometimes. I guess it took a while to find.

 

just a thought from a non-C6 owner.
in my car, you can call Onstar and they can read the codes for you.....anybody try that here?

 

My old tech '64 still has the original gas sending unit, and it works perfect, my C5's dosen't. But you're right, the old crap won't hold up like the new stuff. Just 3 years ago I had to rebuild the original fuel pump. After 38 years, it developed a small tear in the diaphragm, didn't leave me stranded like the C5's column lock, only noticed a small gas smell in the garage. Both my '56 and my '65 have gages, no idiot lights, plus I can troubleshoot the old points and carbs and repair them myself, at home, with standard mechanics tools (i.e. a hammer), can you do that with Your C6.