[Z06] 2008: Demise of the 427 LS7
08-19-2005, 03:14 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by WhiteDiamond
I wouldn't be surprised by such a move. All I remember right now is that the 3-valve heads had not made the power levels asked for by the time the team had to make the production decision. In my opinion, pushing the LSx block to 427ci was an absolute no brainer on GM's part, as they had to have known they could make the power they wanted this way. Switching back to smaller displacement after several more years of development AND making or exceeding the LS7 power level, seems very likely. The question is, does anyone know of a project within GM looking at this? The supercharged LS2 in the Caddy engineering demostration vehicle hints at something, just not sure what.....
Edit: I also believe GM will be moving foward with direct gasoline injection soon, so this probably requires a change in head geometry and the pistons, so it is likely GM would rebadge the engines.
Todd
Edit: I also believe GM will be moving foward with direct gasoline injection soon, so this probably requires a change in head geometry and the pistons, so it is likely GM would rebadge the engines.
Todd
It's all good!!!!
08-19-2005, 03:36 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by 04msmZ06
There's no substitute for cubic inches...
No replacement for displacement.
It has much more of a "ring" to it.
08-19-2005, 03:58 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by brianw21
Basically they show the LS2 and LS7 on the engine lists for 2006 and 2007. Then for the 2008 model year they are replaced by a LS3 and LS9.
(From the DC thread)
Originally posted by CorvetteConti
The 2006/2007 Corvettes show engine codes of LS2 & LS7,
but in 2008 they very well may be LS3 & LS9 engines...
The 2006/2007 Corvettes show engine codes of LS2 & LS7,
but in 2008 they very well may be LS3 & LS9 engines...
08-19-2005, 07:44 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by brianw21
I've been reading an "informed" thread over at DC:
LS7 Demise
Basically they show the LS2 and LS7 on the engine lists for 2006 and 2007. Then for the 2008 model year they are replaced by a LS3 and LS9. Both engine capacities are 6.2L the latter being supercharged.
He mentions:
LS3: 450hp
LS9: 600hp
I hadn't seen this info over here, and wanted some feedback. I would be VERY skeptical, except he has hit the nail on the head on everything "leaked" to date. Including the Six speed Auto. If this is true, it could make the 427 cars very valuable.
LS7 Demise
Basically they show the LS2 and LS7 on the engine lists for 2006 and 2007. Then for the 2008 model year they are replaced by a LS3 and LS9. Both engine capacities are 6.2L the latter being supercharged.
He mentions:
LS3: 450hp
LS9: 600hp
I hadn't seen this info over here, and wanted some feedback. I would be VERY skeptical, except he has hit the nail on the head on everything "leaked" to date. Including the Six speed Auto. If this is true, it could make the 427 cars very valuable.
I don't think the 427 C6's will be anymore valuable, they just make too many, but I have heard the 2008 Z06 will have a 600 hp supercharged engine from my old retired GM engineer friend.
08-19-2005, 09:03 AM
#26
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rick says thanks everyone, I bought my car from him and he does read the forum.
He has brought info to the net in many cases before anyone else. cancellation of colors,paddleshift,etc,etc. I'm sure he'll catch some grief over this because I think he has a good source working for him.
Nice feedback, nice of you guys to acknowlege the source of the data -cool! I'll see if I can find out anything else
He has brought info to the net in many cases before anyone else. cancellation of colors,paddleshift,etc,etc. I'm sure he'll catch some grief over this because I think he has a good source working for him.
Nice feedback, nice of you guys to acknowlege the source of the data -cool! I'll see if I can find out anything else
08-19-2005, 12:13 PM
#27
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Here is my opinion:
They know that they need to really up the HP ante to keep sales churning. Even more they want to stay on PAR with the Viper's numbers.
I don't think that they have that much head room left in the LS7 and keep it within parameters (MPG, Emissions, Cost). A supercharger allows them to use more common parts and EXCEED the requirements and targets.
The LS3 is just a move to use more common parts, and it gives the C5 Coupe owners a reason to upgrade in the magic 2-3 year window.
All in all it makes a ton of performance and business sense. Not to mention how much easier it will be to add a smaller pulley and really have some fun.
They know that they need to really up the HP ante to keep sales churning. Even more they want to stay on PAR with the Viper's numbers.
I don't think that they have that much head room left in the LS7 and keep it within parameters (MPG, Emissions, Cost). A supercharger allows them to use more common parts and EXCEED the requirements and targets.
The LS3 is just a move to use more common parts, and it gives the C5 Coupe owners a reason to upgrade in the magic 2-3 year window.
All in all it makes a ton of performance and business sense. Not to mention how much easier it will be to add a smaller pulley and really have some fun.
08-19-2005, 04:22 PM
#28
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Could Be
The LS9 announcement brings to mind a lot of the threads that the forum has been looking at over some time. In particular, the PowerPoint talks by the GM Power Train people relating to the future direction of engine development, the articles on direct-injection gasoline engines, the articles on variable valve timing with a push rod engine, the use of a supercharger on the North Star engine and articles on the push rod the three valve engine. The August issue of AEI from SAE has an article which reports Toyota as saying that the gasoline engine continues to be the mainstream for future of the power train. The main issues are improving thermal efficiency and specific torque to be equal to that of a diesel. The key technologies to be used to accomplish this include direct-injection, supercharging, reduction of friction, lean-burn combustion, higher compression, advanced variable valves, precision controls and de-NOxing after treatment. That almost exactly duplicates the comments by GM Power Train. It appears that a lot of companies are thinking a like on what needs to be accomplished. The major difference seems to be in the means by which to accomplish the end.
From the technical perspective, the next Corvette engine could easily be smaller in displacement, be supercharged, use three valves, use direct injection and use variable valve timing (remember the V-16 design?) and still be a push rod engine based on the current small block. Such an engine could be more powerful than the current 7lt and more efficient in the use of fuel. Technically that would be doable and in keeping with the direction chosen by GM Power Train. So the LS9 described doesn’t seem to be completely a fantasy from a technical point of view.
The configuration of the actual engine will be driven by economics. Simply, what is the least expensive means by which GM can achieve diesel like efficiencies in a gasoline engine?
From the technical perspective, the next Corvette engine could easily be smaller in displacement, be supercharged, use three valves, use direct injection and use variable valve timing (remember the V-16 design?) and still be a push rod engine based on the current small block. Such an engine could be more powerful than the current 7lt and more efficient in the use of fuel. Technically that would be doable and in keeping with the direction chosen by GM Power Train. So the LS9 described doesn’t seem to be completely a fantasy from a technical point of view.
The configuration of the actual engine will be driven by economics. Simply, what is the least expensive means by which GM can achieve diesel like efficiencies in a gasoline engine?
08-19-2005, 07:11 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by n1kon
I do think so...the rules changed this season which states that the race car must have a production variant.
If the c6r has a 7.0 engine then the street car must also the rules weren't like this before.
If the c6r has a 7.0 engine then the street car must also the rules weren't like this before.
08-19-2005, 07:31 PM
#31
Team Owner
Maybe, but variable timing is coming soon. Bigger displacement may work with the displacement on demand if it works good.
08-19-2005, 07:36 PM
#32
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08 & '12
if the gas prices still keep going up then we will see motor sizes go down ! and this horse power war will be over ! and so will the corvette we know an love .......J.M.H.O.
08-19-2005, 07:56 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by johnnyvettes
if the gas prices still keep going up then we will see motor sizes go down ! and this horse power war will be over ! and so will the corvette we know an love .......J.M.H.O.
hopefully technology will prevail
08-19-2005, 08:34 PM
#34
Race Director
Originally Posted by johnnyvettes
if the gas prices still keep going up then we will see motor sizes go down ! and this horse power war will be over ! and so will the corvette we know an love .......J.M.H.O.
We haven't even seen mention of the increased automotive voltage systems that are still being looked at. That can increase milage and power. Things are going to get really cool before the end and we are forced to convert to something else.
Todd
08-19-2005, 10:14 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by SSRogers
What? You're suposed to say...
No replacement for displacement.
It has much more of a "ring" to it.
No replacement for displacement.
It has much more of a "ring" to it.
The dispacement thing doesn't really take effect until after those HP #'s
Could it be that Cafe rules or whatever it is called will get more strict and they must get better mpg and a smaller displacement motor with a supercharger being tested could get better milage durning light acceleration, and maybe GM is developing displacement on demand with this motor that would make the LS7 obsolete? The LS7 isn't that far off from an LS1 so I do not think the development costs were too high on it. GM may have also figured the short LS7 run into the ZO6's price.
08-20-2005, 01:00 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by GN1270
Try telling that to the 1500hp TT Buick Grand Nationals.
Besides I was only telling 04msmZ06 the way that phrase is suposed to go.
08-20-2005, 01:14 AM
#37
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If the LS3 and 9 are coming out in the next couple of years I don't think any of us will really miss the LS2 or 7.
Having a 500hp 7,000rpm 427 Corvette would be awesome but I'll take a 600HP sc version anyday. I just hope these new rumors are true, and that gas prices are below $5.00 a gallon in 2008.
Having a 500hp 7,000rpm 427 Corvette would be awesome but I'll take a 600HP sc version anyday. I just hope these new rumors are true, and that gas prices are below $5.00 a gallon in 2008.
08-20-2005, 03:19 AM
#38
Le Mans Master
I would rather they take the turbocharger route rather than the supercharger route. Nothing against superchargers, but they have always been the "bastard stepchild" to the turbocharger. There is just a lot more potential with turbos. And if the Z06 is suppose to be a road course car, those have always been the domain of the naturally aspirated and turbo engines. Even Mercedes, a long time supercharger user, is replacing their superchargers with turbos.
I also think turbos would have more market value on a $70K car, too. Look at how much market value Porsche has built with the 911 and GT2 Turbos.
Doesn't Twin Turbo 427 even have a nice ring to it? Yeah!!! 
Michael
I also think turbos would have more market value on a $70K car, too. Look at how much market value Porsche has built with the 911 and GT2 Turbos.
Doesn't Twin Turbo 427 even have a nice ring to it?
Yeah!!! Michael
08-20-2005, 11:04 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by pdvale
Seems like alot of effort to create an LS7 engine and only have it in production for 2 years.
LS1 engines were out for 8 years, and the LS6 for 4 years.
LS1 engines were out for 8 years, and the LS6 for 4 years.
08-20-2005, 11:16 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by WhiteDiamond
We heard this back in the early 70s as well....It took many years, but look at what forum we are in discussing it and the already known technologies that can improve even where we are today.
We haven't even seen mention of the increased automotive voltage systems that are still being looked at. That can increase milage and power. Things are going to get really cool before the end and we are forced to convert to something else.
Todd
We haven't even seen mention of the increased automotive voltage systems that are still being looked at. That can increase milage and power. Things are going to get really cool before the end and we are forced to convert to something else.
Todd
