WallyWest

Interesting. I haven't driven a M3 SMG, didn't know that about their ratings. Sounds like they're more in the 400 ms range. Sneaky bastards.

I drove a regular 360 with F1 and thought it was pretty fast. I guess the 430 is even better. I like rowing my own gears, but those trannys are pretty cool.

dietrich

599 is new fastest even than Enzo according to Ferrari it shift in 100 millisecond. F1 car can shift in 40 milliseconds.

vette6799

The sequential electronic transmissions also downshift as well as upshift - seamlessly and perfectly time after time after time.

It is easier and consistent - unlike people. I wonder, though, is it as much fun? Waiting on an F430 with an F1 shifter - guess I will soon find out.

louieT

Damn I have no I dea how I have missed this thread..

Good stuff Ranger. I am tring to learn that shift. Next sunny day I am all over it..

I hear a weird sound when I am at high RPM's and in 2nd in the shifter. Like a raddle sound really weird. But it only happens when my hand stays on the shifter.
Any advice appreciated.

Ranger

There have been a few reports of a shifter rattle under strong acceleration when the engine is cold.

Happened to me a few times in the first 3000 miles when the oil temp is below 100.

What's your oil temp when you hear the noise?

Ranger

WallyWest

It's a different kind of fun. It's certainly fun to feel connected to the car by shifting the gears manually, but with the F1 you can pay more attention to the road. It's somewhat liberating I think, without all the downsides of an automatic tranny. And like you said, it's consistant, which most drivers aren't.

louieT

Its weird because it sounds like a raddler would sound if you shook it..
But it only happens if I'm shifting and hold the shifter (1st -2nd) then its in second (sound will occur, hand on shifter) then to third doesn't seem to happen as much, but does.
I saw the other post. Its hard to determine if the things are the same.

I will pay attention to the oil temp when I drive next..


Thanks agian for the advice..

40YRW8

Ranger,

In the good old 4-speed days, I found a couple of things that really helped my shifting a lot. What do you think? First of all, most cars have way more pedal travel than what is necessary for a good power shift. We used pedal stops to ensure that the clutch engagement and disengagement travel became more consistant. With some practice with the stop, you could then close up the pedal travel until you had just enough but no more travel than you actually needed. This obviously saved precious time in the shifting process. The other benefit was that you never over-centered the Bellville washer, the actual spring in the clutch. It not only prevented mechanical stress on the spring but also kept the centrifugal forces from holding the clutch open or slowing down it's engagement. Modern diaphragm clutches are better now but the principle is still the same.
Our stops were all bolt-ons because they were a pain to drive with on the street so they came off as soon as we got the cars home. We would fine tune the travel at the track until it was just right and then record a measurement from the pedal back to the floor to help facilitate the next weeks set-up. After a couple of trips to the track this became a simple routine. I even closed up the free pedal travel with an adjustable actuator rod (unnecessary on a hydraulic clutch). What is really impressive is driving the car home after the races. It is amazing just how little pedal travel is needed after the clutch disengages to get a good clean shift.
The other thing I did but never told anyone about was to pre-load some pressure on the shifter. With our Borg-Warner Super T-10's you could push on the shifter in say, second gear under power until it popped into neutral (loud noise, did this only once and no damage noted). With that point of reference, I would begin pulling or pushing on the shifter until I got to about half to two thirds of that pressure at the time of the shift. That did two things for me. One, it compressed the skin against the bone structure of the hand or fingers. This saved compression time (I know, not that much but it all starts to add up) and also gave a much better sense of feel as to exactly how the shifter was gripped and the exact angle that you would be applying force to the shifter. When I first started doing this, I was amazed to find that my hand position was not only changing slightly from run to run but also from shift to shift. A half dozen trips to the track and hand postion became a matter of habit and suddenly shifting became fast, easy, and consistent and I became much better at concentrating on staging, launching the car and reading my competitor.
As a side note, I met and talked to Ronnie Sox at some length while stuck in the staging lanes at the 1974 AHRA Winternationals at Beeline Dragway in Phoenix. Great guy, very intense. He was my racing hero through the sixties and it pained me (as, I believe, it did him as well) that he was receiving a lot of animosity from the sportsman racers for bringing their factory-backed, professional team to the Super Stock Eliminator, SS/BA class. They had converted one of their Hemi-Cudas to an automatic (HORROR) at the insistance of Chrysler as a protest against the NHRA factoring them out of Pro Stock with obviously an excessive weight penalty. I was never a Ronnie Sox but I received a lot of compliments on my shifting ability. I even had a decent amount of success bracket racing the car against ALL of our group even though they all converted to automatics. I put 610 runs on my '69 Hurst Sc/Rambler. It had a Borg-Warner Super T-10 and a Hurst Supershifter and MAN, I loved my 4-speed. I refused to give it up just to maybe pick up a couple more wins each season. I have an '07 Z on order with Karl Johannson and after way too many years driving automatic pick-up trucks, I can hardly wait to start rowing the shifter again just for fun.

Gary

Joe_G

This morning I was searching for a new shifter to buy and found this post. I NEVER missed a shift in my C5 but miss about 1/3 of my 2-3 shifts in my C6. For some reason when I shift fast I go to 5th, perhaps it's my trained memory of shifting the C5 so often which had wider throws.

I learned how to launch practicing Ranger's tips, now I guess he'll teach me how to shift. Thanks Ranger!

Ranger

Thanks for the perspective, Gary. And you make some good points.

The logic of a pedal stop for race day is clear. Haven't used one myself, since I'm a stock guy.

I know several folks that pre-load the shifter and they like the results. I pre-load my right shoulder, instead, via tension in the upper arm and forearm. It is that queue that prepares me to execute the upcoming shift. But I understand the pre-loading the shifter has a similar effect.

And thanks for the bit of racing history.

Good luck with your 07 Z. Let us know how it goes. Just gotta remember that it has a throttle that must be squeezed not hammered.

Ranger

Ranger

Hey, dgdoc. I still have your GTechPro and will try to measure my times at the drag strip next cool (60s) day. If I manage to do that, then I'll try it on my local abandonned airfield, without the surface prep. The difference would be spin on the shifts. Shift times would probably depend on venue because of efforts to reduce wheel spin.

Ranger

dgdoc

Ranger - After reading the stories about Ronnie Sox and his ability to shift a manual transmission faster than a Lenco, we're all anxiously awaiting your results so we can anoint you as the "Ronnie Sox" of Corvettes.

40YRW8

Ranger,
Thanks for the words. Next time you are practicing and you pre-tense your arm muscles, try a little test. Use your left hand to see if your right bicep is tense. If it is, it would work against your shifting motion from 2-3 and 4-5. For your 1-2, 3-4 and 5-6 shifts you would want your bicep tense and your tricep relaxed. This comes naturally when you preload the shifter in the direction of your next shift. I admire you working to see how far you can go with the stock car. We had an AHRA class called Stock Optional which allowed headers, traction bars, any clutch, 9-inch slicks and gears up to 457. I set my car up for that class originally and even though I could have done a lot of easy things to make it faster, it became a personal challenge to see just how fast I could get the combination to run. When you think you have hit the wall and there is nothing left in the car, absolutely everything gets looked at in a microscope. I always got a great sense of satisfaction at the end of a season looking at notes and realizing that is was going 2 tenths faster than the same time the year before just by fine tuning absolutely every aspect of a run. Your analytical approach and lack of ego is very refreshing. Not much of that around these days. The shifting speeds that we are talking about are probably only micro-milli nanos but more than just good bench racing, it hopefully gets some of the guys to really pay attention what is really going on with them and their car on a run. Sadly, too many guys (and I have known a bunch of them with many years of racing experience) that never really got the big picture. Oh, and here is a proposal. I propose that the new standard of Micro-Milli Nanos or MMN's be defined as those rediculously small amounts of time we all love to theorize about that of themselves are unproveable but, when enough are added together, they result in a mysterious improvement in your timeslip with no direct, plausible origin. I spent years chasing them and, like UFO's, I know that they exist. SPOOKY!
Gary

roadglide34

I too was going to question the "pre-load" technique I utilized back in the 60's-70's. Never raced professionally but that was the accepted practice in my days.

Do your techniques hold true for C5's and should one opt for a after-market shifter or are stock shifters (with practice) just as good as the after-market units.

Thanks for the info.

Ranger

Hi roadglide34,

Yes, the shifting approach and techniques that I recommend were developed racing two stock C5 Z06s. But they are giving equally good resuls now on the C6Z.

My view is the stock shifter is fine and is what I run. Others disagree and replace it with an aftermarket part. But shifting drills will bring confidence and consistency along with the speed. At that point an aftermarket shift doesn't have much to add.

Ranger

bernrex

Gary ... I like your ideas and experimentations regarding preload shifting.

I would simply like to add that the mental aspect of shifting is key to not missing shifts. If you visualize the upcoming shift in your mind ... the brain will cause the instinctual preloading/preprograming of the arm muscles.

Ranger gives us a hint on this when he says to visualize the 2-3 shift as being directed towards the radio. Once the brain has visualized the upcoming line of shifter travel ... looking down is not needed, and you can keep your eye on the track.

When I miss a shift ... its usually from being sloppy mentally. Not thinking about the shift ... listening to radio, looking @ HUD, etc.

Rangers frequent repetition/practice further 'burns' the neural shifting circuits into his brain ... so he can probably not miss shifts if he was multi-tasking during a race.

Still, I'd bet he intensely focuses his brain just prior to a shift.

outnumbered

Congrats Ranger,
This is one of the finest threads I have seen.It is sincere converstation about a serious topic.

I will say that the shifting method you have prescribed for us is dead on.When I was at Pocono last month I followed your technique without
a flaw in the operation of the shifter or tranny.Occasionally I would loose focus on the straights and deviate(out of old habit) and sure enough would get hung up without seating into gear properly.Sometimes it was like hitting steel(Inbetween gears).As soon as I returned to the technique it was smooth as silk.
Thanks for sharing with us.Glad you like Corvettes
Dan

patton

is it possible to power shift a 07 z06 on the street ? without blowing the tires away

Ranger

Glad it worked out for you, Dan.

I don't personally know, patton, because I reserve power-shifting for where it matters...at the drag strip and do it there only when conditions warrant the risk.

Folks who power-shift routinely often wind up with breakage to the tranny and other parts. There are a lot of reasons why that happens.

You can shift very fast without keeping the throttle on the floor. Takes practice, practice, practice. That's what this thread is about.

Keep in mind, if the wheels are spinning significantly on the shifts, acceleration is adversely affected.

Ranger

bigpower

I can see it now. A bunch of guys all across America sitting in their garages in their car, Shifting, Shifting, time after time.