[Z06] Tired of Japanese tuner cars, should we care?

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07-28-2006, 08:08 PM

#101

dgdoc

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Originally Posted by J-Spec_Fanatic

Where do you think the federal deficit came from? And why do you think its growing? I don't care what most of you think of me, but the fact that I am concerned about these things enough to get you to think about it makes me a huge patriot. It might not even be the cars that need fixing here. It's the people living in this country who need to quit complaining and do something about it.

Buying inferior cars from an inferior domestic car company doesn't make you a patriot. Questioning why domestic car companies are perceived as inferior to the rest of the world and attempting to find the answer why and how can we fix that does.

I'm not quite sure why you are bringing up the federal deficit in this discussion -- it's not related to Corvettes. If you have some political agenda and would like to engage in a spirited debate about things of this nature, there's no problem. People are free to express their feelings of this country -- and have been free to do this ever since this great country was created. However, you might want to consider having this debate outside the C6 Z06 forum.

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07-29-2006, 02:09 AM

#102

mav21386

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Originally Posted by J-Spec_Fanatic

Thanks for the counter article, I have read it and found nothing but hearsay. Toyota denied wrong doing and performed the recall merely to avoid consumer backlash because of one accusation that one part caused one accident.
The statement that "Toyota recalls are ballooning" is based on perception just to grab people’s attention in the article because that goes against the normal perception.

To compare this article, it’s similar to the misspelled word I had earlier in this thread. Someone pointed that one misspelled word out and immediately attacked my education. I’m no Einstein but Id be willing to bet even he misspelled words every now and then; Does that mean we should go back and recall everything he ever said or wrote down because he misspelled a word?

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07-29-2006, 02:12 AM

#103

Mike Z06

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PetaVette

"he starts THIS thread and a bunch of B.S about domestic cars vs ricers and insults John Ligenfelter.then his little friend gets on and defends himself in 1000 words or less. I've only been a member of the forum now for a couple of months but i now have my first 2 on the "ignore list"

Priceless! I don't know why my post shows up so convoluted when you quoted it, but that comment about "1000 words or less" is cracking me up!

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07-29-2006, 02:30 AM

#104

JustinStrife

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Well this thread was linked onto Nicoclub.com by the J-Spec kid ripping on you guys(I should say us since I'm also a member and Corvette owner here). He doesn't give a very fair post on the nissan thread. I'm not going to repeat what's already been said and hammered down 50x already, but to say as an owner of both American AND Japanese sports cars, both are fun, and both were built for specific purposes. Long as we enjoy what we love, someone else's opinion shouldn't matter one damn bit.

By the way, I LOVE my corvette more than my RX7 and turbocharged 240sx.

Some people will never understand how much fun this car really is.

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07-29-2006, 05:45 AM

#105

Corvette1221

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Originally Posted by PetaVette

Yes its the same guy. he started the post "Z06 impressions" said the car was boring and whining about how dangerous the car was and how he can't "open the thing up" because he lives in so cal and the freeways are to crowded. he goes on to say that the car "isn't geared right and he thinks the "viper is more exclusive" and will "get more attention" with a viper. Also he would take the Z06 to the track "to have fun" but he's worried about getting "dings from pebbles on the front." Then he starts THIS thread and a bunch of B.S about domestic cars vs ricers and insults John Ligenfelter.then his little freind gets on and defends himself in 1000 words or less. I've only been a member of the forum now for a couple of months but i now have my first 2 on the "ignore list" These kids have nothing better to do than start these ridiculous discussions. Over 40 responses to the "IMPRESSIONS thread and 97 so far to this one.I don't get it

You seem like an intelligent person and I do appreciate your opinion and see your point. Perhaps we should all just love the Z06 and not ask questions about it. Assume that it is ok and we don't need to ask our fellow mates about the possiblity that it might be geared for the autobahn in germany when we don't have one here. I do love my Z06, but I have in fact found it not as exciting as my C5 Vert was at lower speeds with the top down.

While I knew that when I was giving up the open top I respected those that said a true sports race performance car is not an open top car, but has a stiffer frame.

However, even after reading all the posts on this forum and talking to many people about the Z06 before I bought it, it wasn't until I drove the car that I realized it is not as exciting at low speeds as I expected it to be.

I don't mean to affend anyone with this remark, it is just my opinion from my experience and I respect you completely if you feel differently.

My point in starting that "First Impressions" post was to see if there were others who had to same impression and perhaps they found ways to deal with it. I do love the car and don't have any immediate plans to get rid of it, but it helps sometimes if you find other people who thought the same thing but perhaps found new things about it that made it enjoyable to own at lower speeds as well. Many were helpful in their suggestions.

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07-29-2006, 06:09 AM

#106

blandcastle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzalezfj

You seem like a sensible, well balanced individual. Please consider that the bashing of Japp cars in this thread started as a result of some "self appointed expert" coming to our forum and bashing all American cars as POS.

What reaction would you expect from the Forum members, especially when the man did not have a shred of evidence to back up his assertions?

I personally don't think much of Japp cars, but if you want to buy one and send jobs out of the US, it's a free country. Just don't come back moaning that your son, daughter or whatever cannot find a good-paying job. Guess what, people like you have shipped them overseas.

Don't take this as a personal attack, just a statement of fact. The US cannot sustain forever the enourmous balance of payment deficit we have today.

I have no animosity against you or others that patronize the Japs, but when I try to do business over there they erect all kinds of barriers (both legal and illegal) to imports because they want to protect their domestic market. So... I don't like Japs.

Peace.

Frank Gonzalez

Well said Frank!

It is sad that some just do not see the big picture. But they also cannot see the forest...because of all the trees blocking their view

... I said it before and I'll say it again. All of you foreign car buyers that bash domestics should be the first to lose your domestic job, then lets see how you feel about it.

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07-29-2006, 06:16 AM

#107

blandcastle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spec_Fanatic

I hear you, and I wish GM and other domestic auto manufacturers would have made cars that outlasted and had better gas mileage then the Japanese cars coming out of Japan for the past 20+ years. There is no place for sympathy, patriotism, or compassion in business. Perception is king going hand in hand with price. People don't care where it comes from as long as its good and cheap. Think about where you spend money and where that stuff comes from.
The US is no longer a manufacturing country. We are a service country now. The reason being (and I can't believe I have to point this out) is that our standard of living is off the charts compared to the rest of the world. We have all these unions and grabby, greedy, uneducated skilled workers who have 100 people that can do the same thing in another country ready to work for 1/10th the labor rate or less.
The rest of the world is making money because we are the biggest consumers on the planet and JWB and his daddy are selling us down the river by helping our manufactures move to Mexico or other places where the people will work for $3 a day by letting those companies import those goods for pennies on the dollar compared to what it used to cost.
Where do you think the federal deficit came from? And why do you think its growing? I don't care what most of you think of me, but the fact that I am concerned about these things enough to get you to think about it makes me a huge patriot. It might not even be the cars that need fixing here. It's the people living in this country who need to quit complaining and do something about it.

Buying inferior cars from an inferior domestic car company doesn't make you a patriot. Questioning why domestic car companies are perceived as inferior to the rest of the world and attempting to find the answer why and how can we fix that does.

You really ARE a demented individual. And I am sure I speak for all of us here in saying that it scares the sh*t right out of me knowing that you are one of the people guarding our country

. You obviously have NO love for the USA. When you bash American companies, you are bashing part of the American work force as well

. BTW, we all know why you enlisted in the military, you are evidently not smart enough or have a good enough work ethic to make it in the real world. Boy am I surprised.

Last edited by blandcastle; 07-29-2006 at 09:41 AM.

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07-29-2006, 06:21 AM

#108

blandcastle

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Originally Posted by J-Spec_Fanatic

I actually watched that on HDNET or some HD channel this weekend and no I didn't see a Japanese car there. They talked about how they required proof of a LARGE bank account just to be allowed to enter the auction. So wealthy car collectors don't buy Japanese cars (shocker). Wealthy people who can afford to fill up their garage with multiple vintage cars represent 1% of the population of the US. End of story.

Hmmmm, interesting that the people with alot of money do not buy japanese shi*. I guess they are all just dumb.

No thats because they have money AND class

. BTW, I have a couple friends that are at that auction every year. They are pretty smart individuals, I can tell you that. Again, you show how little you know and your class..or lack thereof.

Last edited by blandcastle; 07-29-2006 at 09:40 AM.

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07-29-2006, 06:22 AM

#109

Corvette1221

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Originally Posted by J-Spec_Fanatic

You told me one example of a car that has its problems which is a first year production car and I told you about one that didn't. But you sure love throwing the word ignorant around. All I wanted to know was where you got your data from besides your individual experience. What’s ignorant about that?

I just think we shouldn't make excuses for the lack of foresight when it comes to auto manufacturing. Any ignorant fool knows that different materials react differently to heat. So why should GM be excused from this roof defect? You keep calling me ignorant for not accepting GM's lack of understanding of basic physics. Shouldn't they know more than you or I if they are going to make an expensive sports car that is designed to overcome physics in order to move people from place to place? Is there an excuse that “they didn’t know” something so obvious? People make mistakes but haven’t they been making cars long enough to catch most of them before the first production car goes out?

What would be interesting is to gather data on the number of incidences of defects in new GM models as opposed to the number in Toyota, Nissan, or Honda.

I understand your biased toward GM and your need to rationalize to make yourself feel better about your purchase, but don’t call me ignorant for not being as accepting as you about defective manufacturing.

There used to be a site called All-data. They gave out for free, auto technical bulletins on all makes of cars. I don't believe they are doing it anymore because I cannot find the website. I followed it very closely with my Dodge Daytona and Dodge Viper and other cars, none of which I could remember. But in reading it for fun I found that the number of recalls/technical bulletins on frist generation models was very high the first two years of production, by the time they were a few years old they worked most of the bugs out and then there were much less.

You would be amazed how many technical bulletins there are for any car. It doesn't mean that those cars are going to have all those problems, but more that it is likely they will. I am sure, as I tried to look up stuff for the 240sx 1989, that there are numerous bulletins on it as well. However, as I said, I can no longer find that site.

I enjoyed reading it because it really showed how many little things can go wrong with a car.

Hence this is not just from my experience of owning the corvette but other cars which I have owned as well as those that I have not owned. Hence it is not based on one observation as your opinion seems to be.

As far as GM understanding materials I see your point. But I respectfully disagree. In many cases I would not accept certain defects on cars because many of the technologies that main stream automobile manufactures use are tried and true. Hence if a roof came off a pickup truck I would consider that a blunder, even in a first generation model.

But if an automanufacturer uses different materials and pushes the weight savings up higher they are attempting to engineer a car for the street that normally does not have the same reliability as a street engineered car, such as a Nissan or Toyota.

Ask someone who builds race cars how reliable all their parts are if they are driven every day on the street?

The Nissan 240sx's frame, which you compare to the Z06 Corvette is not even coming close to using some of these bleeding edge technologies. While I understand Nissan, when they built the 240sx was not as concerned with weight savings, when comparing the two, you need to take this into consideration.

Designing a car that performs as well as the Corvette does and making it street reliable is a much more difficult task then building a 240sx that did not need to meet such performance specifications. Hence, though perhaps you may see it as a rationalization I see it as unfair to compare it to a car that needed to meet lesser standards of design and performance.

To take an extreme, it would be like calling a Lamborghini junk because the clutch went out at 10000 miles. With performance comes a price and reliability factor that sets such cars at a level where they are normally less reliable and therefore can be expected to have problems that main stream cars don't have.

The Z06 is engineered so well, that for the most part you get the same performance in many ways as a lambo, but it comes with a 3 year warranty, a clutch that will last 60k miles, weighs less, gets 25mph on the highway, and costs 1/4 the money. Not to mention, I bet will be more reliable.

Hence at the cheap cost you can get a vette with all this performance, it is using technologies to do it that make it fare and above what is in a 240sx. So drawing your comparison with reliability is an unfair comparison.

But not on a main stream car. And if this is what you mean by not accepting it, I agree with you. I would be upset if a mainstream car had the roof problem. I would also be upset if it was the third year of production on the Z06 and they still had the roof problem.

But since it is the first year, there are too many benifits they have given us in this first model that far exceed the expectations of even the most critical sports car enthusiast at 1/4 the cost. Hence have to cut them some slack.

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07-29-2006, 06:28 AM

#110

blandcastle

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Originally Posted by gonzalezfj

Go look at the J.D. Powers reports and then come back and tell me how well-built those Japp cars are and how lousy American cars are.

Frank Gonzalez

Frank, they are not interested in facts. just conjecture and

. If the facts come out, they run just like roaches for their hiding places.

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07-29-2006, 06:36 AM

#111

Corvette1221

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Originally Posted by JRitt@StopTech

I think a lot of it stems from inexperience, and you hear it most often from either younger people who can't afford a nice Z06, or guys that have so much money that they automatically look for the prestige/exclusivity typically associated with a Pcar, Ferrari, or Lambo...even BMW has a much classier brand image.

Before my Z06 I owned a Honda Accord, Acura Integra Type R, and Nissan 350Z. Almost all of my friends own Japanese imports.
Many of them are adament about how terrible these cars are, but have never driven or owned one. Some of my friends are still giving me immense grief about the car, even after 6 months of owning it.
I always tell them, "come out on the racetrack with me, and then tell me this car is POS." Those that have done so now have a slightly realigned attitude.

Up until this car, I was never really a fan of domestics either. My dad always bought domestics, but we didn't have any money...so he bought crap domestics. Also, US car quality wasn't exactly stellar in the 70's and 80's when I was growing up. My dad once told me our Chevy Comet had rust on it within months of buying it!!! People who lived through that era have a lot to get past. I know I did. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about buying a domestic after owning a couple of Honda's. I haven't run into anything major so far, but I am not especially confident that this car will hold up as well as my Type R did on the racetrack. Then again, the performance levels are light years ahead, so it's almost not a valid comparison.

Finally, a lot of import owners look at the Z06 as being something different, and don't really lump it into the "domestics" category. In particular, most guys at drivers ed / track days are all about the Z06, and anxious to talk about it, take pics of it, and ride in it. Do a search on any of the import car forums. Most references to the Z06 are as a "beast," "monster," etc. Most of these lower priced import owners would dump their car in a second for a Z06, and they'll readily admit it. Until recently though, prices kept the C5 Z's out of reach. I'm a convert, and I know we'll be seeing a lot more in the next couple of years. Heck, I'll probably be responsible for a handful myself.

I loved japanese cars before owning my first Corvette in 2003. When I bought my first Vette, a 2001 Red Vert, I had test driven many cars. A few years back I got in an argument with my brother who tried to convince me to buy a corvette. I told him, at the time, that they didn't have the prestige, and besides I said, everyone who is old is driving one. My brother didn't convince me.

Like you, when I was growing up my Dad bought domestics as well as japanese. We had a 1980's Chevy pickup with a 350 in it that needed the oil checked more often then our Toyota Tercels.

We also had a Dodge Van that needed constant work. The japanese cars we had seemed to go on longer without needing as much mechanical attention. We also had a subaru.

So when I finally decided that I wanted a luxury car or sports car I went test driving as many different cars as I could. The Corvette, while it looked cool in auto shows never appealed to me enough to consider buying one.

Well after driving a Ford Mustang Cobra, M3 BMW, Porsche 911 Carrera I was at a lot one day and saw a red convertible vette. To be honest I wasn't even looking for one. But I couldn't pass up the chance to see how they drive.

Well I bought the car after only drving it two blocks. It was the funnest car, IMO that I had driven.

When I took it home I was expecting the usual, put oil in it, give it mechanical attention that all the other domestic cars we had needed when I was growing up.

Ironically I found, after 3 years of ownership, 57,000 miles on the clock the car was rock solid. Surprised me! So I believe Corvettes are different then most american cars.

Now I am a fan!

I understand your concerns, but perhaps you will see with the new car you bought that the Corvette stands in a class of its own! The only complaint I have is the fit and finish, that's it.

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