[Z06] My Engine Blew at 2600 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
02-12-2007, 09:39 AM
#101
I would agree for the most part, but would also guess that this relatively small sample of Z06 owners contains an above average number of people using the car much harder than the average owner. Then, there is large number of people here modding the car with tunes, headers, and in some cases cams. Hence, it is only logical to expect a higher than average number of failures reported here.
02-12-2007, 12:47 PM
#102
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I think the important thing to take away from all this is to never drive the car with a light throttle! How many owners have had engine trouble while wide open? I have yet to see one Z06 owner claim to have had an engine failure at WOT. Clearly driving the car with a light foot is an invitation for trouble.
You're not alone either. There are several other sites that discuss universal engine failure with it occurring at an idle, in the driveway, just cruising down the road, lightly driving around the track, etc.
Ask an engine builder sometime how many customers have come in and told him that the engine was at 6900 with the throttle pinned and it blew all to hell on the upshift. I dare say never, or maybe twice its happened in all the history of motorsports. The engine always goes away under 3000 rpm (according to the customer).
I do however agree that if the vehicle is marketed on the racetrack, participating in high performance manuvers with 505HP on the fenders that it should be required to uphold those expectations to a resonable degree if its provided with a warranty. There should also be an enforcable personal responsibility clause built in.
edit:
I would also like to ask about the comment about the replacement engine lowering the car's trade-in value. If you really believe that the failure was due to a preexisting assembly/component failure which is not just limited to this single case then why would replacing a defective engine lower the car's value? It would seem that the replacement engine would presumably fix this issue and make the car more desireable down the road as any used Z06 buyer would have done his research and be leery of a low mile original engine from a particular build era.
You're not alone either. There are several other sites that discuss universal engine failure with it occurring at an idle, in the driveway, just cruising down the road, lightly driving around the track, etc.
Ask an engine builder sometime how many customers have come in and told him that the engine was at 6900 with the throttle pinned and it blew all to hell on the upshift. I dare say never, or maybe twice its happened in all the history of motorsports. The engine always goes away under 3000 rpm (according to the customer).
I do however agree that if the vehicle is marketed on the racetrack, participating in high performance manuvers with 505HP on the fenders that it should be required to uphold those expectations to a resonable degree if its provided with a warranty. There should also be an enforcable personal responsibility clause built in.
edit:
I would also like to ask about the comment about the replacement engine lowering the car's trade-in value. If you really believe that the failure was due to a preexisting assembly/component failure which is not just limited to this single case then why would replacing a defective engine lower the car's value? It would seem that the replacement engine would presumably fix this issue and make the car more desireable down the road as any used Z06 buyer would have done his research and be leery of a low mile original engine from a particular build era.
Last edited by LS2BYU; 02-12-2007 at 03:56 PM.
02-12-2007, 01:48 PM
#103
Melting Slicks
I drive only the lowly standard C6 and ( shudder ) not even a Z51 at that.....
But I plan to replace it with an '08 or possibly an 07 Z06 so I read and learn here from actual experiences of Z06 owners.
It boggles my mind how GM can sell this car and hype it as a streetable race car but then not honor the warranty. As for Ranger's car being fine after all those runs and this guys is toast after much less 'use' random failures happen with mechanical devices.
I recall reading about how some of you Z06 guys are apparently impressed with your 'hand built' engines-some even going to far as to actually believe that some 'builders' produce better engines than other 'builders'.
Well, I've rebuilt several big blocks years ago and am familiar with custom engine work. In general, my opinion is that 'hand built' engines should not suffer the kind of failure described in this thread-at least not often.
As for loss of value due to 'non-matching' engine it's a very real thing for any collector car. I was reading somewhere about a beemer or P car owner who needed a warranty engine replacement and the factory air freighted him a new engine stamped with matching numbers!!!!!!!!!
That's customer service. IMO if an engine is replaced in any vette especially one like the Z06 the value will go down permanently from day one of the new engine being in the car. It's true.
The first thing a buyer askes is whether it's a gosh darned matching numbers car. Not that it matters but buyers learned long ago they can get a lower price with this tactic and oh so friendly **** retentive judging orqanizations do all they can to perpetuate the curse.
( try to get a non matching numbers car judged with high marks )
just my opinions. The more I read the more the hand built ( per the marketing types ) Z06 engine seems to me to be a lemon. Yah, great when it's running good but sheer aggravation from the dealer and GM when it fails.
But I plan to replace it with an '08 or possibly an 07 Z06 so I read and learn here from actual experiences of Z06 owners.
It boggles my mind how GM can sell this car and hype it as a streetable race car but then not honor the warranty. As for Ranger's car being fine after all those runs and this guys is toast after much less 'use' random failures happen with mechanical devices.
I recall reading about how some of you Z06 guys are apparently impressed with your 'hand built' engines-some even going to far as to actually believe that some 'builders' produce better engines than other 'builders'.
Well, I've rebuilt several big blocks years ago and am familiar with custom engine work. In general, my opinion is that 'hand built' engines should not suffer the kind of failure described in this thread-at least not often.
As for loss of value due to 'non-matching' engine it's a very real thing for any collector car. I was reading somewhere about a beemer or P car owner who needed a warranty engine replacement and the factory air freighted him a new engine stamped with matching numbers!!!!!!!!!
That's customer service. IMO if an engine is replaced in any vette especially one like the Z06 the value will go down permanently from day one of the new engine being in the car. It's true.
The first thing a buyer askes is whether it's a gosh darned matching numbers car. Not that it matters but buyers learned long ago they can get a lower price with this tactic and oh so friendly **** retentive judging orqanizations do all they can to perpetuate the curse.
( try to get a non matching numbers car judged with high marks )
just my opinions. The more I read the more the hand built ( per the marketing types ) Z06 engine seems to me to be a lemon. Yah, great when it's running good but sheer aggravation from the dealer and GM when it fails.
02-12-2007, 04:33 PM
#104
Le Mans Master
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After working as a service advisor for another American brand, the reason they deny claims like this is easy:
They make more money with less hassle when the customer pays. Especially with an expensive motor and repair like the LS7. Why would they want to have GM possibly deny the claim, have to wait for them to pay back the dealer, the service deparment makes more money because it is on the "Customer Pay" side of the monthly sales commission chart....
It is easy to just imply abuse and make the customer shell out. There are a couple people on ls1gto.com with low mile LS2 failures due to oiling problems and getting shafted hard also.
They make more money with less hassle when the customer pays. Especially with an expensive motor and repair like the LS7. Why would they want to have GM possibly deny the claim, have to wait for them to pay back the dealer, the service deparment makes more money because it is on the "Customer Pay" side of the monthly sales commission chart....
It is easy to just imply abuse and make the customer shell out. There are a couple people on ls1gto.com with low mile LS2 failures due to oiling problems and getting shafted hard also.
02-12-2007, 04:57 PM
#105
Le Mans Master
02-12-2007, 05:16 PM
#107
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Read this thread for some laughs:
http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread....ht=ls2+failure
02-12-2007, 05:36 PM
#108
Le Mans Master
LOL....hardly. Two were from an oiling issue that wiped out main bearings. Another was loose rod bolts.
Read this thread for some laughs:
http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread....ht=ls2+failure
Read this thread for some laughs:
http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread....ht=ls2+failure
here's some all too familar comments, ring a bell with the z owners with blown motors??
On the '05 it spun bearings twice (& of course destroyed the crank both times).
but on the '06 it spun one bearing, sheared off the rod caps (which are 1 inch forged steel-Wow!) damaged the crank, broke the piston & of course destroyed the wall.
but on the '06 it spun one bearing, sheared off the rod caps (which are 1 inch forged steel-Wow!) damaged the crank, broke the piston & of course destroyed the wall.
My 05 spun a rod bearing due to a piston ring not being seated properly at 2000 miles. Stay the course and maybe think about getting a lawyer. Or at least threaten them with one. Good Luck!
02-12-2007, 05:47 PM
#109
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If I just paid $75K for my Corvette, I would expect not be treated like I bought a used Cavalier. This was the biggest turnoff about buying GM products.
When I was a service advisor for a Dodge/Hyundai dealer, the difference was amazing. Hyundai paid out claims no problem and their cars are actually good products. The Dodge stuff on the other hand? We had 96-02 Caravans coming in weekly with a rusted strut tower defect and Chrysler won't do a damn thing about it.
I used to own a '99 Audi A4. The dealer service was top notch and warranty took care of just about everything I complained about. No denials, no B.S. Would I buy another American product? Unless it is a Vette, the new Camaro, G8, or specialty car. Otherwise, I would not buy any American product.
BTW, I currently lease an '04 GTO. Best GM product I have ever owned. Too bad the dealers are terrible.
02-12-2007, 05:54 PM
#110
Race Director
Defective engines happen to good companies, it's just a matter of how they deal with it. And I do think the LS7 weaknesses can be resolved and that it will one day be truly bulletproof. These issues should not a big deal as long as GM resolves the problem and steps up to the plate with a warranty like BMW did.
What is ****-poor, is when the engine blows on your $75K car and you have to threaten legal to get service. When that happens, not only the car blows, but the whole of GM blows with it. There is no excuse. They did the right thing on the 2001 ring issues, and they will probably wind up stepping up to the plate on this one. Just keep it on the street meanwhile.
You know Blu, I was going to refrain from posting in here, but ya just had to pull me back in
Last edited by TTRotary; 02-12-2007 at 05:59 PM.
02-12-2007, 06:11 PM
#112
Race Director
Compared to others oils,it just doesn't stand up.
1. It doesn't keep the internal surfaces as clean as others
2. It varnishes at a lower threshold (In the ring lands and under the piston dome)
3. It doesn't do as good a job with dispersency as others
Darn it, I wish I could post those pics of the Joe Gibbs engines that Jimmy Johnson (Hendrick Motorsports) used for the Charlotte 600...
The side-by-side teardowns are incredible. One motor is TOAST,while the other is ready to run another 600...at 200mph.
1. It doesn't keep the internal surfaces as clean as others
2. It varnishes at a lower threshold (In the ring lands and under the piston dome)
3. It doesn't do as good a job with dispersency as others
Darn it, I wish I could post those pics of the Joe Gibbs engines that Jimmy Johnson (Hendrick Motorsports) used for the Charlotte 600...
The side-by-side teardowns are incredible. One motor is TOAST,while the other is ready to run another 600...at 200mph.
02-12-2007, 06:19 PM
#113
Race Director
Raceguy,
What dealership did you buy it from? I know a Chevy service manager and he told me that the service manager has the power to reject any warranty claim they want. It also gets better, say you argue over something like this, the service manager can go into the computer and void your warranty. GM will back them on it.
Why any service manager would give you a hard time over a blown engine in a $80,000 car is bull. I will bet that when you took delivery of your car everybody in that dealership knew you paid $5,000 over list price.
What was he thinking giving you a hard time? I would hope you will never buy another vehicle from that dealership. I would also let the owner/general manager know how you were treated.
GM knows there is a major problem with this LS7 engine blowing up. Several members here have dropped valves just driving down the road. This is GM at their best we don't have a problem with the LS7. GM just keeps putting their heads in the sand and blaming everyone but themselves.
As for the new engine GM hasn't put the vin number on the blocks in years. Matching numbers don't apply to C6 cars.
What dealership did you buy it from? I know a Chevy service manager and he told me that the service manager has the power to reject any warranty claim they want. It also gets better, say you argue over something like this, the service manager can go into the computer and void your warranty. GM will back them on it.
Why any service manager would give you a hard time over a blown engine in a $80,000 car is bull. I will bet that when you took delivery of your car everybody in that dealership knew you paid $5,000 over list price.
What was he thinking giving you a hard time? I would hope you will never buy another vehicle from that dealership. I would also let the owner/general manager know how you were treated.
GM knows there is a major problem with this LS7 engine blowing up. Several members here have dropped valves just driving down the road. This is GM at their best we don't have a problem with the LS7. GM just keeps putting their heads in the sand and blaming everyone but themselves.
As for the new engine GM hasn't put the vin number on the blocks in years. Matching numbers don't apply to C6 cars.
02-12-2007, 06:33 PM
#114
Drifting
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Correct me if I am wrong but what are we talking about here? 10 failures or so? I mean even if its 15 or more thats probably about 1 per 1000 cars give or take. Hardly worth getting excited about unless you live in Oregon and are dreaming of buying a ZO6 for 59,999 and thats only if they deliver it to your house with an extra set of tires and free oil changes for life. 
02-12-2007, 08:36 PM
#115
Hey, I resemble that remark!! But I think you have me confused with someone else. I never said the LS7 was the only bad engine GM made, because I'm not that generous. But it certainly is not their best work either. In spite of Foosh's gallant one-man reality reversal attempts, LS7 failures continue to occur, with at least 12 members impacted in this forum section alone, versus none in the C6 general section that I know of. That is not counting other failures I know of.
Defective engines happen to good companies, it's just a matter of how they deal with it. And I do think the LS7 weaknesses can be resolved and that it will one day be truly bulletproof. These issues should not a big deal as long as GM resolves the problem and steps up to the plate with a warranty like BMW did.
What is ****-poor, is when the engine blows on your $75K car and you have to threaten legal to get service. When that happens, not only the car blows, but the whole of GM blows with it. There is no excuse. They did the right thing on the 2001 ring issues, and they will probably wind up stepping up to the plate on this one. Just keep it on the street meanwhile.
You know Blu, I was going to refrain from posting in here, but ya just had to pull me back in
Defective engines happen to good companies, it's just a matter of how they deal with it. And I do think the LS7 weaknesses can be resolved and that it will one day be truly bulletproof. These issues should not a big deal as long as GM resolves the problem and steps up to the plate with a warranty like BMW did.
What is ****-poor, is when the engine blows on your $75K car and you have to threaten legal to get service. When that happens, not only the car blows, but the whole of GM blows with it. There is no excuse. They did the right thing on the 2001 ring issues, and they will probably wind up stepping up to the plate on this one. Just keep it on the street meanwhile.
You know Blu, I was going to refrain from posting in here, but ya just had to pull me back in
I won't apologize for being "scientific", and I can't stand forum hysteria. Then there is the "mod issue", which somehow never gets mentioned in these engine failure stories.
02-12-2007, 08:47 PM
#116
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
PLEASE don't interpret what I just said as me ignoring the fact that folks have had engine failures. To those folks, I am truly sorry. That just sucks the big one. I just don't think the problem is as widespread and endemic as the forums are (trying to) making it out to be.
jas
02-12-2007, 09:35 PM
#117
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bottomline: anytime you take your Z on a racetrack you have to be ready to walk away from your car. Not only will your warranty not cover you, but most likely, your insurance will not cover your car or your cover medical bills.
You should be thanking your lucky stars they didn't say "sorry, warranty voided...good luck, and good night." Instead you got better treatment then most of us get who have failures as a result of "on-the-street legal" driving. Now you blow your motor racing, excuse me at a "timed event," and you come crying that GM didn't give you a loaner or tow it to the dealer of your choice? Wow, you really have some nerve.
You should be thanking your lucky stars they didn't say "sorry, warranty voided...good luck, and good night." Instead you got better treatment then most of us get who have failures as a result of "on-the-street legal" driving. Now you blow your motor racing, excuse me at a "timed event," and you come crying that GM didn't give you a loaner or tow it to the dealer of your choice? Wow, you really have some nerve.
02-12-2007, 09:35 PM
#118
Race Director
I don't think he's expecting too much. I had engine issues with a 2000 C5 back in 2002 and GM extended the warranty on the engine only to 6years 100,000 miles. It was the right thing to do and GM didn't give me any problems. I had the paperwork a week later...
02-12-2007, 09:40 PM
#119
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LS7 Builder
For those of you who are blaming the builders, I want to invite you to come and see how clean our operation really is and see our process. Each and every one of us has a lot of pride in what we do. I know that some of you have been here and have seen us in action.
If an oil pump fails, is that our fault, or for that matter if any part fails, is that the builder’s fault? Don’t get me wrong, we are not perfect, but if we did something that would cause a bearing to fail it would fail way before 2600 miles. After reading I agree that the dealer is the one who is jerking you around. I do feel for those that have lost their engines.
I was not going to reply to this but I feel that I must.
If an oil pump fails, is that our fault, or for that matter if any part fails, is that the builder’s fault? Don’t get me wrong, we are not perfect, but if we did something that would cause a bearing to fail it would fail way before 2600 miles. After reading I agree that the dealer is the one who is jerking you around. I do feel for those that have lost their engines.
I was not going to reply to this but I feel that I must.
02-12-2007, 09:53 PM
#120
Drifting
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St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07-'11-'12-'13
For those of you who are blaming the builders, I want to invite you to come and see how clean our operation really is and see our process. Each and every one of us has a lot of pride in what we do. I know that some of you have been here and have seen us in action.
If an oil pump fails, is that our fault, or for that matter if any part fails, is that the builder’s fault? Don’t get me wrong, we are not perfect, but if we did something that would cause a bearing to fail it would fail way before 2600 miles. After reading I agree that the dealer is the one who is jerking you around. I do feel for those that have lost their engines.
I was not going to reply to this but I feel that I must.
If an oil pump fails, is that our fault, or for that matter if any part fails, is that the builder’s fault? Don’t get me wrong, we are not perfect, but if we did something that would cause a bearing to fail it would fail way before 2600 miles. After reading I agree that the dealer is the one who is jerking you around. I do feel for those that have lost their engines.
I was not going to reply to this but I feel that I must.
part failures
driver mistakes / abuse
build issues
just another humble opinion
Mike
