robvuk

I believe that it is technically the 4LT on the base models and the 3LZ for the Z06, leather wrap interiors.

Also, you can add some of the Cadillac models on that list of Draexlmaier interiors. I know my wife's 08 SRX has it. Beautiful.

Oh, and the 7 speed automatic. My wife originally wanted the Mercedes ML500 but when I pointed out how the 7 speed in the Mercedes kept "hunting" for the right gear all the time, she concurred that the SRX with the 6 speed, out handled and out performed the ML500 and for the extra $15k, it didn't make sense.

c2jones

I have had enduring experience with the Euro enthusiasts that too often voice exactly what you just stated. They regard older "pushrod" engine technology as "low-tech" and a desperate, yet sole way GM can make their cars reliable. This is tabbed to Corvette (and Buick) quite a bit.

They lose sight of many of the luxury brands that they herald which have carried their own tried and true technology for many years as well, and the ones that do acknowledge this, see that as "perfected heritage," while Corvette gets labeled as junk that persists in spite of its dated technology, not because of it. They'll even hypocritically overlook simple interiors on those exotics (Ferrari) as long as they perform, while Corvette gets no pardon and gets trashed even as it performs, for what they deem simple interiors and poor build quality. (Yes, I know, it annoys me severely, too. So profoundly unfair.)

The Euro car enthusiast mindset seems to be adamant about ultra high-revving engines that are screaming like Formula One powerplants on the brink of their redline output while using smaller cubic inches in the process. Bigger engines with big power are looked down upon if they come from the USA (Corvette, Mustang/Saleen/GT40, Viper, etc.) but adored if they are Euro designs (Bugatti, etc.). They cite that its no big deal if those bigger CI engines are making power and it should be expected of bigger blocks, and lacks technical marvel (like a BMW V-10 producing the same 500 HP but in a different way than Z06) worthy of note.

Many of these types are Americans, too.

I try to be balanced and appreciate the innovation and direction of all makes for what they do. I love the automobile and can find redeeming qualities in multiple brands. I have owned many luxury brands and still do, but this will never shackle my mind from seeing the attributes of various makes of cars. For Corvette in general and Z06 and ZR1 in particular, these should be seen as the technical gems they truly are and applauded and offered the proper accolades they rightly deserve. Some of the Euro people are coming around; some will never get it. (They have internal issues and they need prestige and imagery to elevate their suffering self-esteem.) Sad but true.

Certainly, ZR1 will be a player on an international scale and one denying its ample presence does within one's own stupor. Recognition comes hard (perhaps recovering from the troubled past of Corvette?), but as respect is earned and not granted, Corvette will have its day in the sun and force that respect.

eurostyle

Tell those guys that in Germany, the guy milking the cows in the monring is driving a MB at night. So far for prestige.

Bwright

The single best counter I've ever seen to the feeble leaf spring argument was by a former GM engineer (SWCDuke) who is a member of this forum.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1551083615

It not only nukes arguments against the leaf spring but reveals GM's and Corvette's history of bringing the European marques out of the dark ages on suspension.

c2jones

Here's another thread to archive. This will surely come in handy. This leaf spring thing seems to be a favorite pet attack on Corvette from the Euronobs, as MotorTrend puts it. Thanks again.

PS, I posted some comments on the aforementioned MB forum detailing many of your points. We'll see how they digest as much, but I think the tide is turning. Corvette is growing in stature (al beit, somewhat begrudgingly for many there) everyday.

c2jones

True to form, when the Euro types (especially with the immatureness many have) lose what remains of their failing insights and composure all while they're Corvette bashing (a favorite target of theirs), then there's always the bit about "Corvettes being for rednecks with little dicks," as if these people (even admittedly) are not driven literally by their egos.

Never fails...
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...&postcount=147

This enhances me in some way. Sweet confirmation.

vette-oholic

MBs in germany are like chevys in the USA.

c2jones

Indeed, yet bear in mind the owner perspective differential: in Germany people take pride in their domestic automaker and its regarded as top quality by the majority there.

Here in the U.S.A., most people regard Chevrolet as a lower tier automaker (even including many who own them) and this includes high numbers of pro-Euro car owners (and those like this everywhere - "Euronobs," as US automotive magazine editors have labeled them) that bash GM in general and Chevrolet in particular (especially Corvette - "fiberglass junk," etc.) relentlessly, even in the face of too often being totally wrong, as we've seen in that MB thread.

Many point to how GM is laying off again and again, while the Euro products thrive (at least in sales), largely as a result of American buying practices, where many overlook their own domestic products.

However, I heard on CNN today that GM stock was surging at 13% and export sales were the primary reason for this. Go figure. Would like to see the sales ratios for each continental area. (So many of the American Euronobs feel that Europeans would shun Corvettes, but I have seen how Corvettes are actually well sought after commodities over there and they make quite a spectacle (Le Mans week-long parades, etc.). And Corvettes are even easier on fuel than their performance cars hands down, as fuel prices are higher than ours.

c2jones

If someone can also point me to any updated GTR revelations I would surely appreciate this. I have been citing what some are saying in these threads (and several PM's), but I need to bring some specifics. I know that there is more to this than that R&T article. I have been reading up on all the controversy.

There is a GTR thread here, but its long and I need the specific updates (admissions I'm told through PM's that are now out) on what happened in those tests (admission of flying starts versus standing ones, etc.)

Thanks.

The GTR excited (in a MB forum) are licking up that R&T article as their hold grail of the GTR conquering the kingdom.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...&postcount=186

c2jones

I concur. But you should see what one person is saying now. Apparently this interior company is giving Corvette a downgraded treatment, as some would have it. No getting through.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...&postcount=163

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...&postcount=180

robvuk

His CLK isn't on par with those high end cars either.

c2jones

Get a load of this discussion...(leaf springs...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S7xb...eature=related

Great video, too.

motogib1

As an engineer I find this Mercedes-corvette discussion very interesting. I've never driven in a newer SL Mercedes but I understand they are very quiet and luxurious. The SL55s I've seen are beautiful cars and excelent performance. Of course the MB SLs compromise some performance for luxury, they are very heavy which slow the car considerably.. On the other side of the coin, the corvettes compromise luxury for performance and affordability. Everything in life is a compromise.
The discussion on plastic body panels in an accident is ludicrous, the vette has a steel frame (Z06 has an aluminum frame), body panels are not a factor. I personally think the seats on the vette are flimsy and the interior is cheap. That being said, it is still great bang for the buck and can easily tweaked for tremendous performance. Relative to the ancient pushrod technology, check this out. 2008 Audi R8: engine 4163 cc, weight 492 lb, 420 bhp; 2007 Aston Martin: engine 4282cc, weight 456 lb, 380 hp; 2008 corvette: 6162cc, weight 433 lb, 436hp. The obsolete pushrod engine is lighter, more powerful and gets better gas mileage to boot. Maybe its not so bad eh.
The ZR1 should probably compared to the Mclaren SLR, 638hp versu what 617hp in the Mclaren. Obviously the Mclaren is swathed in luxury but performance wise probably comparable. Cost comparison 100K versus 462K.

c2jones

Indeed they are all those things. The downside is efficiency, reliability (electrical gremlins galore [and transmission limp mode, etc.] over the last few years) and of course, pricing. They sure should be luxurious and quiet.

Yes, these cars are really not at all in competition with one another. This has been very well stated in the aforementioned MB forum in question. One is a heavy GT luxury cruiser (with a power hardtop convertible) and the other is a pure sportscar, and in the case of the forum topic, the ZR1, a true supercar with plenty of advanced attributes, especially per the value.

The issue in the MB forum became on whether Corvette should offer MB types of interiors (and fit and finish) of MB's given the ($100K ZR1) pricing. Corvettes are readily compared to performance only cars offering Malibu and Cobalt quality in doing so. (Of course, quality means more than just lush interior. Reliability should also count, and Corvette has actually fared better than MB, including SL series, and at pricing much less.) It was countered that given what one gets with Corvette in general and ZR1 in particular, that while the interior might be less than MB (as it should be - MB is a luxury car after all), that it is still very acceptable (yet not better), but more than adequate given the ultra-performance. ZR1 is already a collector's novelty. Somehow the interior is not a detraction, as it shouldn't be.

Yes, I posted much content regarding the build components factor. Might have guessed, no takers. (Many, not all, in those MB's forums seem needy of ego mobiles and the technical aspect escapes them, or is irrelevant. If if turns heads and boosts their imagery, they'll pony up gladly and make excuses for reliability thereafter.)

Have you read this entire thread and noticed that the same vendor that is doing interiors on MB, Maybach, Aston, Bugatti and others is the same that's available to Corvette in the upgraded leather package? If one desires (and will pay) for upgraded Euro style interiors, one can easily have this with Corvette. If that's not enough, one can go to Caravaggio and STILL be well under the price of those makes I just cited.

More solid points. I'll be sure to also note this as well.

True. McLaren, in association with RennTech, now offers a factory supported SLR 722 with 650+ BHP. But this costs even more. And I'm sure that Corvette tuners (like Callaway and others), could do this, too, well under the price of the SLR package.

Interestingly, as noted in both forum threads (Cf, MB), SL65 is now to offer a "Black Series" which omits the convertible altogether. And, you guessed it, this special version will now have carbonfiber composites and panels (like in, well, ZR1) and greater power. But this will still fall short of ZR1 numbers probably, as it will still be a heavier, luxury car, and bring the cost of SL65 up even further. To match ZR1 with a MB, one needs the SLR 722 series, but this is a half million USD.