427Z0SX

That's the new version of the Viper after it's sold to the new buyer.

Suaveat69

Not apples to apples. Well that is not the whole story. Honda MPG ave is 23.81 with 27 vehicles included in the average which places it #2. Chevy MPG ave is 23.36 with 88 vehicles included in the average which places it #3.

Now you have to factor in 27 vs. 88 vehicles. Honda does not make 3/4 tons trucks, large SUV's, vans and they only make 1 300 HP vehicle, no 400, 500 or 600 hp vehicles. If you would go and compare Chevy's 27 vehicles vs. Honda's 27 vehilces I am sure the average would be different.

http://autos.aol.com/article/green/_...11132109990002

SnapperDragon

GM has a lot of options. From fuel efficient, to ultra fast to stump pulling torque diesel trucks. I think GM has something like 17 or 18 cars that get 30+ HWY mpg. Does Honda even have that many models total? Why would you structure your question in such a way that would make it look as if GM is falling on its face when clearly it is not?

0Randy@DRM

Sorry guys for seeming anti GM. I have rocking GM cars+trucks for a long time. I put 300,000 on a S10. 250,000 on a full size. I had a couple more in there too, but they didn't last long in my stable. GM is a great company that is making a ton of changes, like they should be. Never made it over there for the test drive, working too late. But I cruised the parking lot and kicked a few tires, some interesting things for this year. The little boxing thing is ugly, and doesn't get that good of mileage for the ugliness. I did look at the XFI, the price seems to be in line with the older normal version. Mike at our shop has a the older version and gets around 28-30 on the highway. So with a couple more MPG reported would put it in as a great MPG car.

GM has 88 different models I knew about alot of them, but 88 is just crazy. I was shocked to see them at so close to the top of the gas mileage war. I know in the past 5 years they have been working on it like crazy. It looks to me like they are making a good run for the top prize. Which is going to be huge for the future of GM. Which may result in a new car sold to me. I hear they are giving stuff away with some deal right now. Good for me, bad for the company. I just looked at the whole line up of cars and trucks. Lots of Hybrids and better milage out of most of the line across the board. Some of the numbers are a little iffy, I don't know a single person driving a gas 1500 that gets over 20 miles to the gallon. Those numbers have always been a + or - deal anyways.

Randy's car count
GM right around 12 trucks and 4-5 cars
ford (one)
audi 4
VW 5
Honda 4

Bwright

Genius.

A standard engineering metric used to judge efficiency is indeed power vs. fuel consumption. To calculate this accurately, both vehicles in question need to first undergo the same rigorous fuel efficiency test. Fortunately we have such a common test in the revised 2008 Federal fuel economy standardized testing. This test shows the S2000 to return 18 city/25 hwy for a combined fuel economy rating of 21. As an aside, the average rating is based on 55% of the city number and 45% of the highway number. Calculating fact checkers will point out that the precise number for the S2000 is then 21.15 and I will allow them that.

For the standard 430 hp Corvette (the fuel economy figures are not offered with the optional 6 hp adding exhaust) the fuel economy figures are 16/26 for an average of 20.5 mpg. From a performance standpoint the aged S2000 is not comparable to a Z06 and is in fact not even comparable to a standard Corvette. But to humor the comparison, a Z06’s fuel economy numbers are 15/24 for a combined 19.05.

The horsepower numbers for all vehicles in question are known to be 430 hp and 505 hp for the standard and Z06 Corvettes and 237 hp for the S2000. Multiplying their average fuel economy numbers by their respective horsepower outputs yields 8,815 for the standard C6, 9,620 for the Z06 and 4,977 for the S2000.

To say that the S2000 is noticeably off the efficiency factor of the two Vettes is putting it kindly. For the standard Vette the S2000 would either have to return a combined average fuel economy of 37.19 mpg or maintain its current 21 mpg average but generate 419 hp just to match the efficiency of the base Vette.

It is pointless to cite the relevant figures for the Z06 as the comparison would become even more unfavorable.

Regrettably for Honda with the S2000 they are not even in a place to compare efficiency with the 260 hp Solstice GXP which returns EPA numbers of 19/28 (23.05 average for a factor of 5,993). As with the NSX it is time to pull the plug as anything the S2000 could remotely aspire a comparison to will simply embarrass it from an efficiency standpoint.

Game’s over. Somebody wake Honda.

robvuk

Good analogy but it might even be better to divide mpg by lb/hp. e.g. Corvette at 20.5 / 7.44 (3200/430) = 2.75 or Honda at 21.15 / 11.81 (2800/237) = 1.79

These are just rough estimates on weight but at least now we have weight and power to weight factored in.

0Randy@DRM

They are sleeping because they were up late counting all the money flowing in. With only 27 cars and trucks they sure sell a lot of cars. They got a great name in the 80's, then the 90's were just a cash cow for them. Now it's sit back and enjoy the profit. This is a great time for a good old sneek attack from GM!

It's going to be a long hard fight to get the business back into America car companies. But like I said before they are making changes for the better!!!

Randy
PS Did you guys know about their engine blueprinting from the factory???

06/03/2008 - TORRANCE, Calif. -

American Honda Motor Co., Inc., May sales of 167,997, up 11.3 percent on a daily-selling-rate basis(1), shattered the company's all-time sales record for any month as Civic sales reached 53,299, up 28.3 percent versus last May and surpassing the previous monthly record for any car in the lineup.
New all-time records set in May included (previous record in parentheses):

* American Honda total vehicle sales of 167,997 (August 2007:158,342)
* American Honda total car sales of 114,796 (August 2002: 95,686)
* Honda Division total vehicle sales of 153,104 (August 2007: 141,906)
* Honda Division total car sales of 105,548 (August 2003: 84,390)
* Honda Civic Sales of 53,299 (May 2007: 39,993)
* Honda Civic Hybrid sales of 4,676 (May 2007: 4,520)
* Honda Fit sales of 8,205 (March 2008: 6,835)
* Acura TSX sales of 4,564 (April 2006: 3,911)

"The dramatic increase in car sales appears to be one of the most profound shifts in automotive buying patterns in more than a decade," said **** Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "Record sales of the Honda Civic clearly demonstrate an accelerated trend toward fuel efficiency."
Honda Division sales of 153,104 increased 13.9 percent for the month as total car sales reached 105,548, up 30.7 percent. The Honda Civic, with sales of 53,299, set a new monthly sales record for any model in the Honda lineup, surpassing the previous record of 49,098 set in August 2003 by the Accord.

May 2008 Accord sales of 43,728, up 31.9 percent versus last year, set a new May record, surpassing the previous high of 43,589 set in May 2004. The CR-V set a new May mark of 19,959, exceeding the previous record of 19,513 set in 2007. Honda Division reported truck sales of 47,556, a decrease of 11.4 percent. Year-to-date Honda Division sales are up 5.4 percent to 590,361.

Acura Division sales totaled 14,893. Sales of the completely redesigned 2009 TSX sports sedan increased 53.7 percent and set a new all-time record of 4,564, exceeding the previous record of 3,911 set in April 2006.
American Honda reported May truck sales of 53,201, a decrease of 12.1 percent. Year-to-date American Honda sales increased 3.1 percent to 655,819.

Bwright

Good point.