Short-Throw

Please allow me to bring to everyone's attention how this particular magazine's performance statistics make absolutely no sense whatsoever!


First of all, many of you know I have a Katech engine in the Beast. I have absolutely no agenda defending either car here, I simply want to explain what I see from the data presented.

I have run Autobahn in a C6 Z06 probably more miles than anybody. I know what my times and MPHs are throughout the entire track.

To be fair, the driver who conducted the tests was a 1st timer and not a regular. Still the same handicap for both cars.

The first thing I noticed that made absolutely no sense were the MPH numbers in segment 3. The ACR hits 127.45 and the CS hits 119.9.

There isn't a chance in he!! this is accurate. Those that attended Track Attack last year saw higher speeds on the straight-a-way before turn S11. I have seen 140MPH with a STOCK Z06.

But wait, the ACR had more downforce and can come out of the turn faster so that's why it was faster, right?

Wrong!

The ACR equally should have pulled a faster MPH as well.

Okay, but the driver was new and maybe he didn't know the proper line?

Sorry, at 30MPH this isn't a contributing factor.

Preceding the straight-a-way, is a turn called Patience. It has that nickname because there's nothing you can do but settle for low speed going through it. This is a turn that offers no advantage to having a wing. This turn requires mechanical grip, not aero grip.

at nearly 3400lbs in a slow turn, the ACR would not have a corner exit advantage. Remember I said this, because elsewhere it does.

With very close weight-to-power ratios coming out of a slow turn at the same speeds the car with more downforce should be handicapped at the end of the straight, in this case the ACR, and it pulled 7.5 MPH faster than the CS? Not a chance.

Wait Mike...you said you were not going to defend either car and you're picking on the ACR!

Wrong!

Let's look at segment 4.

Coming out of turn N9 is a huge Aero turn. The ACR should be dusting the CS. Who knows. maybe it did if we lined up over-lapping data acquisition. Please, oh please, tell me how the Viper bested the CS in segment 3 by 7.5MPH, but then LOST to the CS in top end MPH by 3 seconds.....when it clearly could start the straight-a-way at a faster speed to boot! RUFKM?

Let's turn back to segment 2. Turn S7 is a kink taken at full throttle. (Maybe not your first time ). A stock Z06 takes that turn at the high MPH that was registered for the entire section.

I could cite more but what's the point?

Bottom line:

Overall Autobahn is not a HP track, nor is it a high speed track where aero is a huge help (trust me I have a wing on one of my cars, remember? )

If you throw traffic out as an excuse, yes I suppose it could have hampered both cars, but wouldn't that suggest more-so unequal testing?

Lastly, if any of you think that the extra lap the ACR ran at the end wasn't such a big deal, you've never driven on a track before. Every lap driven, especially on a first time track has a huge learning curve and seconds are shed quite easily.

Running this test again may or may not change the standings, but the numbers here certainly do not support the cars showcased, and more importantly leave me wondering how good a comparison it really was.

Still great to see two American Cars creating havoc!



Mike

NineBall

Rapid,

I don't think this article is worthy enough to declare a victor. The final results were skewed and all of the facts were not given. Also, if the track had any traffic on it, there is no way in hell you could say the lap times are representative of the car's potential. Not unless there were some stupid factor like car passing factor, lol. I think whoever wrote the article may have purposely wanted to stir up the masses on both sides, and get a "what if" contest going. It would reward the writer by having a magazine with more exposure. Controversy always brings in more interest. As a magazine writer/photog myself, I know how that game works.

Mike, good info on the track.

Short-Throw

Everett,

Don't get dragged down, we all know you're a stand up guy.

Anybody that knows you understands you are the ultimate car fan and have owned many makes and models some people would die for, and probably one of the most unbiased people I know.


Mike

Short-Throw

Well said!

Nimo

PM Send

/Nik

Halltech

Jason, regarding the 535 HP rating. Estimated or calculated? Katech's dyno tuning is second to none, which begs the question, why untuned?
The Killer Bee is worth 12 HP on the untuned Z06 and 35 total with our e-mailTune®. If the reason, is the factory warranty, why not tune the SC and back up the factory warranty with the Katech warranty. For $40,000, that would be pretty easy to guarantee and the additional HP would shave off a couple tenths. You and I both know that proper tuning adds to performance without diminishing the life of the drivetrain.

Are we to believe that the ACR is not supertuned from the factory?

Dodge sells aftermarket intakes, so I would guess this car was 600++.

One more question. Are you using the Beehive on this package?

Thanks Jason
Why was it trailered to the track? Any idea?

Halltech

ACR Nurburgring: 7.22

ACR top speed: 173 mph (ugh) at the salts

NineBall

The ACR uses the same airbox and filter as the base Viper. Dynojet reports have confirmed they both put down identical numbers. I hear that SRT was supposed to release a new PCM that improved the output, but that hasn't been available yet. It would be an aftermarket item however. Just FYI.

Everett Ogilvie

Thanks for the support bud - do you think that I might be too passionate about my cars and my opinions? ......

NOT!

Good discussion on the track, and it has me reviewing my few laps there in my mind. I actually really like South turn 9 and had a great time trying different things there, especially after you showed us how to drift it....

usmc42

Wow, that sounds sweet. Didn't find any threads on it so what's the deal?

dvandentop

More inf on the exhaust sounds bad ***! more info more info!!

DEAD EYE

What do you get with this Katech Z and how much does it cost?

SnakeBitten

Heard the package is 39k...yow "if true"...39k and "mildly modded" dont go hand in hand imho unless these "mild" parts are made from gold pressed latinum ACR is about 10k more than the reg Viper. Makes the ACR even hanging with or beating the CS seem like a steal especially seeing the 109k price on the CS...Dont get it twisted. I heart the CS but it seems the stock ACR is the better performer and value? Hope the sensitive types dont take this the wrong way just thinking out loud after really looking at the whole package...

usmc42

Maybe we can bring some positive to all this negativity by getting more info on this exhaust

J-Rod

If you look at the article itself the Viper's run you will see that the author admits that the run was a bit of a "hail Mary" type of run where he pushed the car as far as it would go. He fully admits that the car had fading brakes at the end of the run and he would be unable to duplicate that performance on a subsequent lap. In other words he took the car to its very limits.

By comparison the Corvette's laps seemed to indicate that he was knocking down really good lap times and worked his way up to a very, very good lap time.

Now, as to whether the driver could have or couldn't have improved his lap times in the Corvette is simply a matter of speculation. Without imput from the author we can all make assumptions all day long about how they might have done.

I would say the Corvette has a bit of advantage on the brakes so that the brake fade which did not allow for a follow up run in the Viper may not have been an issue if he were to have attempted such a run in the Corvette. Since there was no such run, again no determination could be made.

I think Short Throw brings up very valid points about the track itself. I do agree that a first timer should improve lap times with more laps. That is simply a matter of common sense.

As correctly stated by Nineball, its entirely possible that the writer wanted to sell some magazines by having a "controversial result". Or, it could simply be the way it went down. Who can say?

Look, magazine drivers are human beings just like everyone else. Some are better drivers than others. Just because they make it into a magazine doesn't mean they are teh best there is (no offense Tony ). I'll use myself as an example. I've beaten the drag strip times of every magazine driver by a fairly solid margin in my Z06.

Look, they test a lot of cars, so they don't have the opportunity to learn all the nuances of every vehicle. They don't have the option of knowing every track intamately. So, at best we hopefully get some sort of equal handicapping and hopefully some decent results.

At the end of the day the driver mod is the one that is going to make the differences.

BTW, hug and kisses to you too Everett...

Katech_Zach

Well, if there is enough interest in it, we will make it.

The exhaust system uses a Corsa X pipe and Corsa tips with the Katech logo. The mufflers are Burns stainless ultra-light with a straight-through design. The factory active exhaust baffle is used to close off one side of the exhaust system at low rpm. The closed valve creates a sound wave reversion that cancels out droning at cruising speeds - a little idea I had which worked out beautifully.

The system has a deep tone and is more along the lines of a B&B bullet system. Its fairly loud, although the baffle system did tone it down significantly. It will probably be quite loud on a cammed car. The system weighs 30lbs less than the production cat-back system and would probably be priced the same as a Corsa cat-back.

usmc42

Let me get this straight..

-30lbs less than a the production Corsa C/B
-ability to cancel some of the drone at low rpms and use exhaust switch
-Corsa X-pipe
-Corsa tips
-burns mufflers.

That sounds amazing... I would buy one right now for a price near the Corsa's

Halltech

Jason, it looks like the exhaust might be a winner. Even I love the sound, and if it is 30 lbs. less than stock, that is a bonus!

Katech_Zach

Yes, the baffle tones it down from where it was, but its still louder than a Corsa system on the highway.

Frenchican

Sold.