[Z06] C-6 Z06 Blown engine not warranted by GM
12-12-2008, 05:37 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
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I'm going back to the dealer on Monday for a third look at my transmission issues. GM is playing hardball denying anything is wrong with the car. Looks like another attempt to at least diagnose it, the area rep has arm chaired quarterbacked the whole deal and just brushes it off.
GM's dealings with the warranty work reminds of the John Grissom novel the Rainmaker and how big insurance companies fought to deny claims and brush off the little guy.
GM's dealings with the warranty work reminds of the John Grissom novel the Rainmaker and how big insurance companies fought to deny claims and brush off the little guy.
12-12-2008, 05:47 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
If the car is stock, I feel for the OP. Imagine the aggravation mentally and the upfront cost that one would have to pay the lawyers to fight GM, the longer it drags out, the harder it is on the plaintiff. The legal system just sucks for the little guys.
12-12-2008, 05:57 PM
#43
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No mods on the drivetrain at all. I hear that there have been issues with the dry sumps and a higher capacity tank will be used on the 09's thanks for the reply
12-12-2008, 06:13 PM
#44
Le Mans Master
Can you be more specific:
Your reply hints you do have mods elsewhere.
Are these items stock?
Tires?
Brakes?
Suspension?
Sway bars?
Thanks,
Mike
12-12-2008, 07:28 PM
#45
Just to counter all the folks complaining about GM dealer service I want to say that my experiences with my local Chevy dealer service department has been on par or better than any other dealer I have worked with including marks like Audi and Porsche.
I broke my cooling fan at VIR earlier this year, took the car to my dealer and he replaced it under warranty. He asked where it happened and I told him as well as the fact that I do HPDEs regularly. He said that he could tell because there were still bits of track rubber on the car
After the Katech build I believe that I have a much more stout package (including the ARE stage 3 and forged pistons) but I'm also not expecting anything from GM should I have any powertrain issues. I decided to do this before I had any problems but now that you need a new motor anyway party on!
I broke my cooling fan at VIR earlier this year, took the car to my dealer and he replaced it under warranty. He asked where it happened and I told him as well as the fact that I do HPDEs regularly. He said that he could tell because there were still bits of track rubber on the car
After the Katech build I believe that I have a much more stout package (including the ARE stage 3 and forged pistons) but I'm also not expecting anything from GM should I have any powertrain issues. I decided to do this before I had any problems but now that you need a new motor anyway party on!
12-12-2008, 07:33 PM
#46
Procharged F1X 7.18 @ 197
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
That's correct. You were referring to a supporting vendors ad for a stealth tune. However, ethics, as you described with your rather lengthy and thorough dictionary interpretation :
What ever happened to personal responsibility?
eth⋅ics /ˈɛθɪks/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [eth-iks] Show IPA Pronunciation
–plural noun 1. (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
2. the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4. (usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
eth⋅ics /ˈɛθɪks/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [eth-iks] Show IPA Pronunciation
–plural noun 1. (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
2. the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4. (usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
The OP was ethical in his disclosure and got him a warranty denial. I'm certain that you feel he did the "ethical thing" and his denial of coverage is inconsequential.
I am also quite certain knowing what you know now about disclosing such information you would do exactly as the OP did if you were in the same situation.
12-12-2008, 07:41 PM
#47
Safety Car
If there were mods that allowed the car to increase lateral gs (suspension, tires) then GM might meet its warranty burden of showing a modification caused a failure. Our oiling system was only designed and tested with the stock parts and the corresponding lateral gs.
12-12-2008, 07:47 PM
#48
Instructor
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I believe that thread was related to mods more than participation in driving schools. The OP here has not yet indicated whether or not his car has been modified. Manufacturers really have no choice when it comes to mechanical modifications, they have to take the position of voiding the warranty. That doesn't mean no such claims can or should be allowed, but the owner has to assume the responsibility of supporting the claim. When it comes to driving schools, I see no comparison. The warranty is all about how the car should perform, in the condition it was delivered, absent gross negligence or malicious actions by the owner. The surface on which it is driven should not matter, assuming it's not molten lava or such.
When I sold my ZO6, I bought a Porsche Cayman S. On any given day, the service bays at this dealer may have 3 or 4 cars that are in various stages of track prep. The dealer and factory are well aware of such activity and, within reason, support it. Porsche has the same issues with modifications, depending a lot on the specific dealer, but they fully accept the fact their cars are driven in track schools. As I mentioned at first, something sounds wrong here, and I wish the OP the best in reaching a fair resolution.
When I sold my ZO6, I bought a Porsche Cayman S. On any given day, the service bays at this dealer may have 3 or 4 cars that are in various stages of track prep. The dealer and factory are well aware of such activity and, within reason, support it. Porsche has the same issues with modifications, depending a lot on the specific dealer, but they fully accept the fact their cars are driven in track schools. As I mentioned at first, something sounds wrong here, and I wish the OP the best in reaching a fair resolution.
12-12-2008, 09:29 PM
#49
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Any manufacturer will (and should) deny warranty claims for "track cars". The assumption in this thread, I think, is that the car is totally unmodified. As I mentioned earlier, although I was very disappointed in my engine failure, both the dealer and GM treated me very well, and I have no complaints at all regarding their service. My comment about the Porsche dealer was just to point out their knowledge and support of using their cars on track. That does not mean they are your sponsor if you race, or, that they will cover modified track cars under warranty when they break.
12-12-2008, 11:18 PM
#51
Melting Slicks
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12-12-2008, 11:22 PM
#52
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First sorry about what happen to you. I guess I'm not getting it or I'm missing something. I love GM to death but some things they do is just stupid. They build the Z06, as "track ready" cars then when your doing what they "built" the car for they void the warranty. Now GM has been good to me for warranty work on my modded car.
12-13-2008, 12:41 AM
#53
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I believe that thread was related to mods more than participation in driving schools. The OP here has not yet indicated whether or not his car has been modified. Manufacturers really have no choice when it comes to mechanical modifications, they have to take the position of voiding the warranty. That doesn't mean no such claims can or should be allowed, but the owner has to assume the responsibility of supporting the claim. When it comes to driving schools, I see no comparison. The warranty is all about how the car should perform, in the condition it was delivered, absent gross negligence or malicious actions by the owner. The surface on which it is driven should not matter, assuming it's not molten lava or such.
When I sold my ZO6, I bought a Porsche Cayman S. On any given day, the service bays at this dealer may have 3 or 4 cars that are in various stages of track prep. The dealer and factory are well aware of such activity and, within reason, support it. Porsche has the same issues with modifications, depending a lot on the specific dealer, but they fully accept the fact their cars are driven in track schools. As I mentioned at first, something sounds wrong here, and I wish the OP the best in reaching a fair resolution.
When I sold my ZO6, I bought a Porsche Cayman S. On any given day, the service bays at this dealer may have 3 or 4 cars that are in various stages of track prep. The dealer and factory are well aware of such activity and, within reason, support it. Porsche has the same issues with modifications, depending a lot on the specific dealer, but they fully accept the fact their cars are driven in track schools. As I mentioned at first, something sounds wrong here, and I wish the OP the best in reaching a fair resolution.
12-13-2008, 12:47 AM
#54
As for mods to my a with the blown engine here's the list the GM regional rep noted and did not approve of: 1pair of carvaggio leather sport racing seats, restraints bolted to base of seats, rubber build-up on tires and found inside wheelwells, red tow ring bolted to rear of car, there are no mods to the engine and the tires were stock runflats. None of this contributed to a total engine failure
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 12-13-2008 at 12:52 AM.
12-13-2008, 12:48 AM
#56
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12-13-2008, 01:08 AM
#58
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Something doesn't sound right here. I lost the engine in my ZO6 while at a driving school at VIR over Memorial Day this year. I had it towed to the dealer, and I was totally honest in every aspect of the incident. Mine was a low oil pressure induced failure. A main bearing was definitely involved, because it was audible by the time I got back to the paddock area after seeing the warning and feeling the power loss. The dealer knew all the details, including where I was and what I was doing. The car went back to Bowling Green three days later, and the engine was replaced under warranty. The service at both the dealership and factory was exceptional. They verified that my car was stock, and did a computer scan to verify no tune or other tampering. I was told that if a tune had been detected, the claim would have been denied. Of course, a denied claim is not the end of the process, and the customer might ultimately prevail, but it could be a very big problem. The Museum sponsors its own DE schools, with factory folks in attendance and participating. So again, a denied claim based only on participating in a DE event sounds wrong, assuming the car is stock.
At the time my car was in BG for engine replacement, there were 7 or 8 other ZO6's in line for new engines also. I got rid of the car shortly thereafter, because I could not get any information from the factory about either the problem with my engine, or, if there was a common problem that would have just been repeated in the new motor. But the rate of failures at that time suggested to me that a problem existed. If the larger sump proves to be the fix, and assuming GM and Corvette survive, I may buy another one next year.
At the time my car was in BG for engine replacement, there were 7 or 8 other ZO6's in line for new engines also. I got rid of the car shortly thereafter, because I could not get any information from the factory about either the problem with my engine, or, if there was a common problem that would have just been repeated in the new motor. But the rate of failures at that time suggested to me that a problem existed. If the larger sump proves to be the fix, and assuming GM and Corvette survive, I may buy another one next year.
12-13-2008, 01:56 AM
#59
Maui brings up an interesting point, about the competitive mode feature. There is some relation, with regards to Porsche. Quite a few Porsche owners have been burned on on their 996 GT2's crumbling PCCB's. (Some 2nd-generation PCCB's on 997's also show signs of excessive wear.) Porsche advertised that as a track car, and sold PCCB on the basis of being able to withstand the rigors of racing (not just track lapping), and that in normal driving PCCB's have a service life of 300,000 km's. After some complaints, Porsche revised the literature, warning of rapid wear under track use. Most companies will not cover brake rotors, as that is a wear item. But it's interesting to note that in one case which actually made it to arbirtration, Porsche's denial of coverage wasn't on the basis that rotors were a wear and tear item. They denied coverage simply because the PCCB failure occurred while the car was physically on track (not even racing). This is apparently mentioned in the owner's manual.
Hate to say it, but it looks like doing the ethical thing means having to take it up the ****. It's not just GM, but also looks like Dodge is not as lenient as they have been in the past.
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-sr...k-driving.html
Wonder if any trackday insurance would cover this...
Hate to say it, but it looks like doing the ethical thing means having to take it up the ****. It's not just GM, but also looks like Dodge is not as lenient as they have been in the past.
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-sr...k-driving.html
Wonder if any trackday insurance would cover this...
Last edited by Guibo; 12-13-2008 at 02:00 AM.
12-13-2008, 08:40 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
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As for mods to my a with the blown engine here's the list the GM regional rep noted and did not approve of: 1pair of carvaggio leather sport racing seats, restraints bolted to base of seats, rubber build-up on tires and found inside wheelwells, red tow ring bolted to rear of car, there are no mods to the engine and the tires were stock runflats. None of this contributed to a total engine failure
Good luck.
