[Z06] LS7 Engine Failures On CF....The Breakdown
08-02-2009, 08:20 PM
#281
Pro
08-02-2009, 08:21 PM
#282
Advanced
Member Since: May 2008
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is an interesting argument...on both sides.
I used to have a 97 Camaro SS with the LT1 motor. Never touched the engine, but replaced/upgraded everything suspension wise, bushings, end links, springs, shocks, sway bars, strut tower brace, torque arm, racing compound tires, etc. etc.
Went to a lot of SCCA auto cross events and later switched to road racing.
I used to beat the hell out of that car, bouncing off the rev limiter on almost EVERY run, stabbing the throttle and brakes on extremely technical autocross courses, flying around road race courses at nearly 140mph on some back straights, and this was with BOTH me and my wife driving at all of these events.
My point, yes I do have one
, is that I never worried about blowing up the motor. I was very meticulous with the maintenance and prep of the car prior to, during and after an event. Mind you this was on a $30K car that did not have all of the technological advancements of the 08' Z06 I now enjoy. It seems a little 
to me that I have to worry about my Z being track ready, when the SS I owned never gave me one problem for the ELEVEN (11) years I owned and raced it.
Now that I know that the Z has an oiling issue, I'm going to invest the money to upgrade the system so that I don't have a catastrophic failure, but I sure would have hated to be one of the unlucky guys to find this out the hard way. I'm sure that if I had been one of the first to buy an 06' Z, I would have been one of those guys posting in here about a blown motor as I would have never thought that changing to a sticker tire would lead to a catastrophic failure.
My Z is far from stock, so I know whatever happens to the car is on my nickel, but that is my choice. I just think it sucks that someone who bought the car for fun, throws some sticker rubber on it for a weekend event would have to worry about running the risk of turning his beloved Z into an oversized paperweight.
I love the LS7 motor and don't get the impression that it's flawed, but I don't think anyone would argue that if the LS7 has one weak link it's the oiling system. I agree that the oiling system is more than adequate for the street. I'm still running my stock oiling system in my Z after a lot of mods (557rwhp/502rwtq), but you won't see me at the track (OK, you will see me at the drag strip) before I get this addressed.
Just my .02
I used to have a 97 Camaro SS with the LT1 motor. Never touched the engine, but replaced/upgraded everything suspension wise, bushings, end links, springs, shocks, sway bars, strut tower brace, torque arm, racing compound tires, etc. etc.
Went to a lot of SCCA auto cross events and later switched to road racing.
I used to beat the hell out of that car, bouncing off the rev limiter on almost EVERY run, stabbing the throttle and brakes on extremely technical autocross courses, flying around road race courses at nearly 140mph on some back straights, and this was with BOTH me and my wife driving at all of these events.
My point, yes I do have one
, is that I never worried about blowing up the motor. I was very meticulous with the maintenance and prep of the car prior to, during and after an event. Mind you this was on a $30K car that did not have all of the technological advancements of the 08' Z06 I now enjoy. It seems a little to me that I have to worry about my Z being track ready, when the SS I owned never gave me one problem for the ELEVEN (11) years I owned and raced it.Now that I know that the Z has an oiling issue, I'm going to invest the money to upgrade the system so that I don't have a catastrophic failure, but I sure would have hated to be one of the unlucky guys to find this out the hard way. I'm sure that if I had been one of the first to buy an 06' Z, I would have been one of those guys posting in here about a blown motor as I would have never thought that changing to a sticker tire would lead to a catastrophic failure.
My Z is far from stock, so I know whatever happens to the car is on my nickel, but that is my choice. I just think it sucks that someone who bought the car for fun, throws some sticker rubber on it for a weekend event would have to worry about running the risk of turning his beloved Z into an oversized paperweight.
I love the LS7 motor and don't get the impression that it's flawed, but I don't think anyone would argue that if the LS7 has one weak link it's the oiling system. I agree that the oiling system is more than adequate for the street. I'm still running my stock oiling system in my Z after a lot of mods (557rwhp/502rwtq), but you won't see me at the track (OK, you will see me at the drag strip) before I get this addressed.
Just my .02
08-02-2009, 08:37 PM
#284
Team Owner
The internet is a strange thing.
I have seen posts in here by two current Z06 owners, who to my recollection, have never reported a day of mechanical trouble, say something along the above now.
Boy, these modded people whose cars have crapped out, really have some of you guys in here reading this $#!+ spooked.
Completely bone stock guys in here, with 48 months of warranty left, if not more, $*****n' their pants after reading this stuff.
They can't even enjoy their cars they're so %$^#ing scared from all of the "terrible terrible" stuff they "read" so it must be true.
Well, all I can say is, its a good thing they didn't decide to tell you that the sky was falling. You'd be hiding underneath tables now.
If you had never read any of this crap, I wonder if your attitude would be the same.
I have not had one problem
I love my car .... its the best I have ever owned.
But I am not going ignore the input of other Z06 owners
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN WRONG !!?? ....
DH
08-02-2009, 08:40 PM
#285
Team Owner
Thread Starter
But don't let them spook you into second guessing your purchase, when you have not had even the slightest hint of a problem, which is exactly what you do in your prior post.
And the answer to your question is. Absolutely.
Have you???
Would you be this fearful had you not read all of these horror tales?. Tales which when you get down and investigate them, happened primarily in non stock equipment cars?
Have you heard nothing about what I said with regard to Ron Fellows/Spring Mountain, Bob Bondurant, Ranger, with 187 bone stock quarter mile passes, Jamie Furman, Dr. Ron....if there were something to this, then how come they haven't popped?
How come those schools are still using Z06s if they are crap and the engines are prone to pop?
How come no one in here who has attended one of those schools has come back in here and told us of one of those Z06s at one of those schools popping?
I refuse to let people in here whose modded cars popped, because they *&^%ed up in planning their mods, scare me.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 08-02-2009 at 08:53 PM.
08-02-2009, 08:53 PM
#286
Pro
The internet is a strange thing.
I have seen posts in here by two current Z06 owners, who to my recollection, have never reported a day of mechanical trouble say this now.
Boy, these modded people whose cars have crapped out, really have some of you guys in here reading this $#!+ spooked.
Completely bone stock guys in here, $*****n their pants after reading this stuff.
Its a good thing they didn't decide to tell you that the sky was falling. You'd be hiding underneath tables now.
If you had never read any of this crap, I wonder if your attitude would be the same.
And believe it or not this thread that you made has coused some of the spooking. I have already seen someone post that if they would install Posiquiet brakes if it would void there warranty if there was a failure. This is the kind of stuff that spreads like wildfire, especially to different car forums.
I agree with you, there isnt LS7 exploding at every corner on the street or even on the track, but when a cars oil system is already at its limits with its stock tires, (a consumable item) thats some bad engineering.
Last edited by dbhajek; 08-02-2009 at 08:55 PM.
08-02-2009, 09:04 PM
#287
Team Owner
Thread Starter
But driving a car that could be already 100% at its limit all stock on the track isnt a smart thing to do either. Sure is that 100% good enouph for most of the time at the track, I guess, but its not good enouph for 100%. There can be different variables, at different track, that can push it over the limit with stock tires. We have to avoid left hand sweepers, plus when we were out our tires, which we will since we track the car, we have to make sure not to get anything sticker then the GoodYears because if we do that would push the oil system over its limits worse then it already is.
And believe it or not this thread that you made has coused some of the spooking. I have already seen someone post that if they would install Posiquiet brakes if it would void there warranty if there was a failure. This is the kind of stuff that spreads like wildfire, especially to different car forums.
I agree with you, there isnt LS7 exploding at every corner on the street or even on the track, but when a cars oil system is already at its limits with its stock tires, (a consumable item) thats some bad engineering.
And believe it or not this thread that you made has coused some of the spooking. I have already seen someone post that if they would install Posiquiet brakes if it would void there warranty if there was a failure. This is the kind of stuff that spreads like wildfire, especially to different car forums.
I agree with you, there isnt LS7 exploding at every corner on the street or even on the track, but when a cars oil system is already at its limits with its stock tires, (a consumable item) thats some bad engineering.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f6/mi...school-116053/
http://www.springmountainmotorsports...iving-schools/
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-mountain.html
If I caused any spooking, well good.
If you might run into oil starvation difficulty running R compound tires on a road course, and didn't know that before, but know it now, well good.
You needed to know. Before you wound up busting something like some of these other guys in here have.
If you were planning T1 swaybars, coilovers, polybushings, StopTech brakes, tow hooks, racing seats and harnesses, and Hoosiers, and thought you were still safely within warranty, well then hopefully this thread helped you, or "spooked" you too
The only "wrong" people I may have spooked, are those who want to mod their cars and not assume the risk for having done so, nor make the necessary ancillary modifications, necessary to accomodate the effects of their first mod.
Either type of "spooking" figures to help those reading this thread.
Soooooooooooo
BOO !!!!
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 08-02-2009 at 09:36 PM.
08-02-2009, 09:20 PM
#288
Le Mans Master
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN WRONG !!?? ....
AAAhh, AAAhh, do you have an easier question?
Jim
AAAhh, AAAhh, do you have an easier question?
Jim
08-02-2009, 09:39 PM
#289
Team Owner
No one is saying that you should ignore the input of other Z06 owners.
But don't let them spook you into second guessing your purchase, when you have not had even the slightest hint of a problem, which is exactly what you do in your prior post.
And the answer to your question is. Absolutely.
Have you???
Would you be this fearful had you not read all of these horror tales?. Tales which when you get down and investigate them, happened primarily in non stock equipment cars?
Have you heard nothing about what I said with regard to Ron Fellows/Spring Mountain, Bob Bondurant, Ranger, with 187 bone stock quarter mile passes, Jamie Furman, Dr. Ron....if there were something to this, then how come they haven't popped?
How come those schools are still using Z06s if they are crap and the engines are prone to pop?
How come no one in here who has attended one of those schools has come back in here and told us of one of those Z06s at one of those schools popping?
I refuse to let people in here whose modded cars popped, because they *&^%ed up in planning their mods, scare me.
But don't let them spook you into second guessing your purchase, when you have not had even the slightest hint of a problem, which is exactly what you do in your prior post.
And the answer to your question is. Absolutely.
Have you???
Would you be this fearful had you not read all of these horror tales?. Tales which when you get down and investigate them, happened primarily in non stock equipment cars?
Have you heard nothing about what I said with regard to Ron Fellows/Spring Mountain, Bob Bondurant, Ranger, with 187 bone stock quarter mile passes, Jamie Furman, Dr. Ron....if there were something to this, then how come they haven't popped?
How come those schools are still using Z06s if they are crap and the engines are prone to pop?
How come no one in here who has attended one of those schools has come back in here and told us of one of those Z06s at one of those schools popping?
I refuse to let people in here whose modded cars popped, because they *&^%ed up in planning their mods, scare me.
And stop with all the hyperbole ..... I never said I am scared and I love and drive my car as it was intended.
I'm not going to let anyone spook me.
And I'm not going to let you mesmerize me into being complacent.
DH
08-02-2009, 09:43 PM
#290
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Thats all that matters.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 08-02-2009 at 09:57 PM.
08-02-2009, 10:14 PM
#291
Burning Brakes
Let's do the stats on this thread
Thread Start Date 7/29/2009
As of this moment 8/2/2009
Views 4301
posts 301
Nah, I'll stop there who gives a sh$t anyway
What have we learned ?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
If you want to run sticker tires, buy a VIPER
Sorry couldn't resist
Thread Start Date 7/29/2009
As of this moment 8/2/2009
Views 4301
posts 301
Nah, I'll stop there who gives a sh$t anyway
What have we learned ?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
If you want to run sticker tires, buy a VIPER
Sorry couldn't resist
Last edited by 2002rich; 08-02-2009 at 10:22 PM.
08-02-2009, 10:35 PM
#292
Le Mans Master
08-02-2009, 10:38 PM
#293
Team Owner
I've avoided this thread, and maybe should have left it that way. But I can't help myself....
Yes - GM has effectively acknowledged that they had a problem. That's why they made changes to the 09, even though the failure rate was very small and mostly on race tracks.
And did I mention that the failure rate has been very small? I'm amazed at how many people have yet to learn that internet forums have a way of spreading mass hysteria at an alarming rate. Run the numbers folks!
And lastly, Quick made a great observation that lot's of folks have not recognized. How in the world has Spring Mountain been running Z06's for over three years now without any reports of failures? These are cars that are run on the race track every week.
I drive my car pretty hard (yes, for a street driven car - that's what it is at the end of the day) and I have no concerns. And if it does turn out to be one of the few with a problem, I'm comfortable that GM will fix it under warranty.
I had a 01 that after just two times at the drag strip, and my normal street driving, had to have a new transmission put in it when it was less than a year old. Mine was not the only one with weak synchros. I didn't see mass panic over that problem - or the crank bolt failing on early LS2s, or differentials exploding on 05 C6's.
Yes - GM has effectively acknowledged that they had a problem. That's why they made changes to the 09, even though the failure rate was very small and mostly on race tracks.
And did I mention that the failure rate has been very small? I'm amazed at how many people have yet to learn that internet forums have a way of spreading mass hysteria at an alarming rate. Run the numbers folks!
And lastly, Quick made a great observation that lot's of folks have not recognized. How in the world has Spring Mountain been running Z06's for over three years now without any reports of failures? These are cars that are run on the race track every week.
I drive my car pretty hard (yes, for a street driven car - that's what it is at the end of the day) and I have no concerns. And if it does turn out to be one of the few with a problem, I'm comfortable that GM will fix it under warranty.
I had a 01 that after just two times at the drag strip, and my normal street driving, had to have a new transmission put in it when it was less than a year old. Mine was not the only one with weak synchros. I didn't see mass panic over that problem - or the crank bolt failing on early LS2s, or differentials exploding on 05 C6's.
08-02-2009, 10:43 PM
#294
Team Owner
"Spring Mountain’s highly renowned Ron Fellows Performance Driving School will teach you how to ‘drive like the pros’ with over 23 Corvettes in our fleet of high performance training vehicles. Our Advanced Driving Programs will put you in a current Corvette Z06, or C6 Z51, and introduce you to the new C6 Z06. Spring Mountain is the only place in the nation where you can put up to 300 miles in one of these high performance vehicles. With a variety of courses to choose from, you will be surprised how quickly you will be learning advanced driving techniques such as Visual Scanning, skid control, accident avoidance, heel and toe downshifting, performance braking and handling techniques, and much more. Learn more about our one-of-a-kind Ron Fellows Performance Driving School."
I think its safe to say that the Z06's have lots and lots of laps on them. And yes, if they are being run on factory tires, that just reinforces what has been repeated many times. GM tested the original dry sump system for factory tires, then when they started seeing some failures they upgraded the system. I'm not sure what else every one want's
08-02-2009, 11:19 PM
#295
Le Mans Master
The Z06 It's not used for the entire class unless you spend a lot more money to do so, which isn't my point. SM is a great place, However; I've actually attended their school. We should stay focused, the SM Z06 is on GY runflats, it's not driven daily at the school and more importantly there isn't any place there, SM that a person taking classes could get close to the maximum "G" loads other an instructor. So you really can't throw their Z06/s in here it makes no sense, and track configuration has a part to play but someone else can touch on that point if they want.
If everyone was running GY runflats at HPDE/s then this thread would not be.
THE Z06 has a weak link and it is a very good possibility if you attend HPDE/s often and drive fast you better upgrade the oiling system if you want the car to as last that's the bottom line. I'm sure had we who do HPDE/s had knowledge of this weak oiling system we would have consider other options. IMO GM was deceptive, unless they concluded that no one would take their Z06 to a HPDE and that couldn't be the case.
If everyone was running GY runflats at HPDE/s then this thread would not be.
THE Z06 has a weak link and it is a very good possibility if you attend HPDE/s often and drive fast you better upgrade the oiling system if you want the car to as last that's the bottom line. I'm sure had we who do HPDE/s had knowledge of this weak oiling system we would have consider other options. IMO GM was deceptive, unless they concluded that no one would take their Z06 to a HPDE and that couldn't be the case.
Last edited by Cloaked323; 08-03-2009 at 01:47 AM.
08-03-2009, 12:34 AM
#296
Le Mans Master
I'm feeling good, since I can't run hard enough to get to 1.3G's even with my mighty NT01's - so I must be safe, based upon what I've read here.
08-03-2009, 12:47 AM
#297
This thread is funny or should I same some of you guys on the forum..
First you guys bash Z06 owners who like to drive their 505 HP fast on the roads... You say take it to the track...
ok....
Next day your average job takes the z06 to the track, he's all excited thinking he got the hp monster out of all the cars, does 5/10 or even 7/10 on the track, half way through the lap, parts of his motors is all over the road and the rear catches on fire...guess what he at least he goes home with some of his motor in a cardboard box
Z06 owner is like WTF...you guys say...ummm you tracked the car, what do you expect? The Z06 is not a track car? Send it to our favorite sponsored vendor and upgrade it for another $20-30k...ya you guys know who and their followers
so others are like skip that idea...I will just have some fun on the streets.... but then hey, the car doesn't handle as well as a porsche or a GTR....some of you guys say that's b.s... just put on some sticker tires and some suspension mods....two days later and some millage the car takes a dump and then somebody comes up with the idea that of course the engine is going to blow because of those mods...
you guys get my drift....
Conclusion... there is a small percentage of these motors that have issues. But guess what, they are all the same common issues... does anybody see a pattern.
I'm not putting down the Z06 just telling it how it is without the political b.s
My Z is my 401 plan...I just keep putting money in it every month modding it to enjoy it until the fun last. If I can't track my car or enjoy the beast under the hood... I am not going to keep it nor will I sell it 5 years later with 2k miles like a good percentage of the owners.
First you guys bash Z06 owners who like to drive their 505 HP fast on the roads... You say take it to the track...
ok....
Next day your average job takes the z06 to the track, he's all excited thinking he got the hp monster out of all the cars, does 5/10 or even 7/10 on the track, half way through the lap, parts of his motors is all over the road and the rear catches on fire...guess what he at least he goes home with some of his motor in a cardboard box
Z06 owner is like WTF...you guys say...ummm you tracked the car, what do you expect? The Z06 is not a track car? Send it to our favorite sponsored vendor and upgrade it for another $20-30k...ya you guys know who and their followers
so others are like skip that idea...I will just have some fun on the streets.... but then hey, the car doesn't handle as well as a porsche or a GTR....some of you guys say that's b.s... just put on some sticker tires and some suspension mods....two days later and some millage the car takes a dump and then somebody comes up with the idea that of course the engine is going to blow because of those mods...
you guys get my drift....
Conclusion... there is a small percentage of these motors that have issues. But guess what, they are all the same common issues... does anybody see a pattern.
I'm not putting down the Z06 just telling it how it is without the political b.s
My Z is my 401 plan...I just keep putting money in it every month modding it to enjoy it until the fun last. If I can't track my car or enjoy the beast under the hood... I am not going to keep it nor will I sell it 5 years later with 2k miles like a good percentage of the owners.
All the pro GM folks on the forum...(the ones that work for GM) don't understand what it is like to own GM cars...at leats pay real $ for them.
because I put Pilot Sport on my car and take it to the track (didn't
GM say the Z06 was a track car??) and get some better brake pads...I've voided my waranty???
I really hope these guys aren't really smokin crack...not that I know what that would be like...but you have to wonder about these comments that are so out in left field.
Let's see GM makes a performance vette, with "race type" systems and has engineering problems with the "race type" oil system and the valve train and the failures are because of the owners
08-03-2009, 07:53 AM
#298
Team Owner
That's an easy one. There's NO WAY that the weekend warriors who go out and drive a Z06 at a driving school are pushing those cars anywhere near what I see in the top run groups at local HPDE's. Not even close. The reliability of a bunch of Z06's at a few driving schools says NOTHING about the reliability of the car in a competent driver's hands.
I don't think ANYONE has denied that there is (or was, on pre '09s) a problem on cars that are being tracked at high G forces for extended periods.
08-03-2009, 08:23 AM
#299
Race Director
Was reading through a back issue of C&D, Feb 2008, ZR1 on the cover. It's a preview of the ZR1 and right in the middle of the article it says "the oil system is dry sump but with additional provisions to combat oil starvation during episodes of extended side loading (e.g., the long carousel turn at road america"
C&D didn't just make this up, I'm sure a GM engineer was being quoted or released that information about the dry sump system. This amounts to an admission that oil starvation is a legit problem on the 06-08's when tracked. So being this was released in feb 2008......how much earlier did GM know about this? They've known for a long time imo, but figured a small percentage of owners will be able to exceed the limits.
C&D didn't just make this up, I'm sure a GM engineer was being quoted or released that information about the dry sump system. This amounts to an admission that oil starvation is a legit problem on the 06-08's when tracked. So being this was released in feb 2008......how much earlier did GM know about this? They've known for a long time imo, but figured a small percentage of owners will be able to exceed the limits.
08-03-2009, 08:35 AM
#300
I'm glad you mention that. I thought I had addressed it early in the thread. To me, bone stock means just what it says.
The car has the equipment on it that it had on it when it left Bowling Green Kentucky , (or stock equipment intended for dealer installation after the dealer took delivery of the car off the truck and before sale to the purchaser.)
I actually run a different street tire than the stock GY Eagle F1 Supercars. I run Nitto NT 05s. Others may run the Generals.
My car is not bone stock.
The car has the equipment on it that it had on it when it left Bowling Green Kentucky , (or stock equipment intended for dealer installation after the dealer took delivery of the car off the truck and before sale to the purchaser.)
I actually run a different street tire than the stock GY Eagle F1 Supercars. I run Nitto NT 05s. Others may run the Generals.
My car is not bone stock.
You run nonrunflat DOT approved Nitto street tires on your car now and I dont think there is anyone here that would say you would have to go on the bone stock with tires fats list category if you were to eclipse Jamie's 10.98 pass. I'd bet Jamie himself wouldn't have a problem with it. If you ran say a 10.95 and that info went on some blogs and little side notes in a magazine or 2 I guarntee they wouldn't mention you didn't have GY runflats and ran Nittos.
If you go to tirerack.com and try to buy new tires and pull up street tires that can be used on the car, any of those choices shouldn't make the car be considered nonstock.
If you were to lose your motor and GM were to deny your warranty(I don't think they really would) because you had the Nittos on it and you would accept that judgement than your crazy.
Anyone should be able to run a DOT approved street tire on our z06's and not have to worry about it voiding the warranty( again I don't think they would deny the warranty if a motor blew with your tires on it) like you suggest is a possibility.