Kyle Lemish

Excuse me I will re-phrase that I believe the ZR1 will make its 10.5 Lbs at any elevation it will ever see at a drag strip! Not a lot of tracks up there at 12,000' and I can tell you my ZR1 is definately making its full 10.5 at well above 4000'.

Tom400CFI

How can you tell me that? How have you measured it? I'd guess the factory gauge?


We need more data and tech info on this system. Or maybe I do.

Kyle Lemish

No not the guage....you can slightly hear the bypass. and if it opens you have reached the 10.5 lbs. And a mountain road that I frequently travel in the ZR1 to one of my favorite golf courses reaches almost 5000' and every time I go I take the ZR1 just for the road!

Kyle Lemish

And Tom im not trying to argue with you but what point are you trying to make? Im going to say that If a bone stock LT 1 on crappy tires ran a 13.8 I guarantee a ZR1 with a good driver will run high 10s at that track......and while we are on the subject of elevation dont forget the advantage of wind resistance at that level.......I am an avid golfer and know the ball flight laws of elevation and Its huge differences so I think that the aerodynamic effect on a car must be large as well but am not the scientist to test it just the golf ex makes me think about it and why some forced induction cars have records at elevated tracks.

golf example from when I played professional golf:
8 Iron at sea level 155 yards
8 Iron at 1400' 163 yards
8 Iron at 5000' 187 yards

Tom400CFI

I wasn't trying to argue or interrupt your great thread. Sorry for that disruption. I was mainly trying to correct what I thought was misinformation. I need more education for this particular 'charger, however.

I LOVE Corvettes, the brand and the model. I'd LOVE to see a ZR1 run high tens here, but I'd bet a LOT of what I could that 10's won't happen for a ZR1, ever, above 3000'. The fastest C6 Z06 that I've ever seen here ran 12.5, driven by a GM engineer. NA again, I know, but...that is WAY off the mark.

EDIT: here is another reference point. '05 Caddy CTS-V; Kooks, full exhaust, Maggie, 470 at the rear wheels. I know the driver and he can drive. 13.3 was his best run.

Kyle Lemish

So your saying he was a good driver in that car and only able to out run a stock LT1 with a whopping 250 or so RWHP by .5 Im still missing your logic? As I said before if a stock LT1 on bad tires can run in the 13's a ZR1 is going to run 10's with a good driver...How can you not follow that logic... Let me go a little further and explain that I agree you are going to have alot of bad days at your track that these cars are not going to be able to run the numbers but If you do your homework track the weather and have some great track prep you will get days where that stock ZR1 will easily run in the 10's above 3000' elevation B/C you are going to have a few days where the DA is very close to 0. And further more I have seen plenty of GM engineers that cant drive worth a shi+ so unless it was John Hinresery (Sorry not sure how to spell his name) He probably had never even raced a ZO6 before. In a stock Z06 I saw a gm engineer barley keep it in the cones in an AX and had over a minute lap time on the same course I ran a 48.5 sec lap in a stock Z06. John H had FTD at a 47.??.

Tom400CFI

"Stock LT1's" here, run 15.0's, as I said earlier. MY LT1, with me driving ran 13.86. I believe that I could run a 12.9x at sea level w/this car, and my driving. Tires didn't matter, because I never squeaked a tire in any of my passes. Best tire in the world wouldn't have made a bit of difference for me.

I'M SAYING: I gave two supercharged examples who are local, one of which I know personally; a '10 Camaro, and the '05 V. Both ran low 13's. That is very in-line with what you see here, at this elevation.


I have never seen a DA lower than 5800' at RMR. It's probably occurred, but not any of the many, many times I've been there. The DA in SLC, at the times that the track is open, is pretty consistently ~7000' or higher. My best C6 time ever, my 12.89 was on a 7200' DA.



You'll have to take my word as a good driver, that this gentleman was also a decent driver. Other Z06's here have run in the mid-low 13's.

Here's the deal; If you are so confident that a ZR1 will run 10's at RMR, bring it out here. I'll put you up in my house in Park City, give you a bay in my garage for your car, and feed you for your stay. 10's will never happen, stock ZR1 at this elevation. As much as I have a wood for this car....never happen.

Kyle Lemish

I think you are still missing my point......that 13.8 is all that stock lt1's run here on the east coast......I started with my 95 Brand new in 95 got alot of passes on it bone stock on a good track with good air.....best I ever ran was 13.78 100% stock.....then I started the modifications. So I am asking what makes it possible for you to be able to run the great time in your N/A LT1 but you say the ZR1 wont do it ever? You must have had the perfect day with perfect prep to out run the other stock LT1 times of your track by 1.2 seconds???? So again how are you saying its not possible for it to ever happen with the ZR1?
You were able to do it with the LT1.

Tom400CFI

I don't know what to tell you. I "Did it" with my bone stock C6, also, running a 12.89 to everyone else "around heres" 14.00's. The fastest stock or stockish C6 I've ever seen around here was a 13.9x. I beat that by 1.1 seconds and I've beaten every other stock or stockish C6 by 1.2+ seconds. How? Did I somehow get "perfect weather" or "perfect track"? Or perfect this or perfect that? I already told you above, w/my DA that I didn't. And I never will, around here.

I can't really tell you for sure why my numbers w/my LT1 don't jibe, w/what you're saying....but here are a couple possibilities in order of highest likelihood:
*LT1's have run faster at sea level than yours did, or than you're claiming. I believe that there are several very low 13 LT1's out there. Before your post, I've never heard anyone say that 13.7 is the best an LT1 can do.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...slip-1190.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1550514822-post2.html
*My LT1 is not stock. Maybe it's a "sleeper" with a stoker crank, 1.6 rockers, a cam, and ported stock heads and ported stock intake manifold....but bone stock exhaust, intake, injectors, TB, with a stock-like idle and still gets 25+mpg on the highway. <-possible, but not likely.

I told you above; if I took this car there, I think that I could almost tag 12's w/it. It's a good running car, and the launchability and shiftability of it is amazing, compared to the C6.

I believe that the point you're making is that my LT1 times here, basically match your LT1 times there...so therefore, "I'm not loosing much to elevation"...which just ain't true. 12.89/111 in my C6, here. Fastest LS2 C6 on the list I believe is 12.21/115. I'm way off that...and why? Elevation. Fastest stock LT1 I believe is ~13.1...and I'm way off that too.

*I have run previous cars I've owned, to their lowest number here.
*I have done the NHRA corrections for those cars.
*I have gone to lower tracks w/those cars, and run the NHRA corrected number.

When I was a "Flat lander" (grew up back east/ran at Epping) I doubted the effects of elevation, and was highly skeptical of the "NHRA correction factor". But since then, I've lived it, felt it, seen it, and confirmed it, objectively.

Kyle Lemish

A quick trip down memory lane.......Mr MOJO's car was ? for really being stock by more than one person on here and you can find in some of his posts about having the mufflers off the car.....but claiming that slowed him down....So why do it?.....I also looked at my old time tickets and checked the DA for that day back in 1995 at Mason dixon drag way.....Back then nobody watched DA to explain cars.....I checked and it showed I ran at +2700 I was on stock crap GSC tires as well so I do believe that the stock LT1's are capable of 13.4 to 13.5 here at sea level with good air. I thought I was running in very good air back then but now I see I wasnt. But back to the ZR1 none of us that are racing these cars believe that we are any were near the bottom yet with my 10.74......I ran that on only my second time to the track with the car.....I believe we are going to see some low 10.6x's on stock tires next year and I think low 10.50s will be run on DR's And I do think you will find that the elevation will hurt the ZR1 less than it hurts the other cars you are speaking of......You should go drive a ZR1 and see how the car is not working very hard at all to do what it is doing......A Z06 Feels like it is maxed out as it reaches redline ever time I drive them where as the ZR1 just feels like its out for a sunday stroll.....Hopefully someday someone that can drive will show up to an elevated track with a ZR1 (not the non driving person that was in the video in this thread) Then we will see what It is capable of.......But for now I am having to pass the time till the snow melts bench racing....

TA

Can't speak for your car, but I can tell you I've seen many stock LT1 cars run much quicker than that on the east coast.

For that matter, some stock L98 cars have gone that fast.

Kyle Lemish

Yea after a little research I realized that my 13.78 pass was at a +2700 DA....I thought It was better air than that but back then nobody was opely tracking DA like they do now days.....I ran that pass in spring of 1995.....As my 95 didnt stay stock long......It was running 10's very shortly after that .....The pass it made in my signature was on radials after driving it 8 hours to englishtown for a GMHTP mag shootout......Later in that same year I drove it to BG for the 99 corvette caravan and ran 10's at beech bend raceway as well.

Tom400CFI

People questioned Mr. Mojo? It's Ironic that you are also questioning him, in the same thread that you're posting a claim of your own. Everyone has respected your claim. Why can't you? Some more "schooling" for you about stock LT1's...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1558785602-post13.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...ile-times.html

I say it again; My car would run damn near 12's there. Your car might run mid 11's here. Regardless of how "ZR1 feels like its out for a Sunday stroll", there is this annying thing called science, that trumps "feels like". No ZR1 will ever run 10's at or near my elevation.

Kyle Lemish

The only reason I ? him at all was that in his own posts he talks about removing the mufflers and some other tricks for free horsepower....that to me is not a true stock car.....and he was not on stock GSC tires either...Did you even read the threads you sent me????? these are all modded cars! close to stock but not stock.....I ran 12.70 in my 95 with just autoX tires, Exhaust, Ram Air set up and the free mods like coolant line bypass....My ZR1 is 100% as delievered from GM! as far as nobody ? my runs the week before there were 4 stock ZR1's at the track and we all ran very close together.......Jamie Furman included! That day was my first time at the track with the car to really try to make some good passes.....I have said many times and Jamie and myself agree this record wont stand for long we will both beat it very soon! So on my second day at the track I ran the 10.74 and had we not lost sunlight on the racing surface by 3:00 that day I would have gone faster that day. I dont think the ZR1 needs the crazy low DA like a Z06 does to make record runs......we need good air and enough track temp to make the 1-2 shift hold.......Anyway if your track is so bad drive to another track.....Thats what I do! there are alot of tracks much closer to me than MIR....I just choose to drive the 3.5 hours to race at a great track!

Tom400CFI

Geeze dude...relax.

Not every car in that thread was stock. But some were. Not every car in that thread supported my position (that stock LT1's can and have run LOW 13's)...but several did. Enough to confirm what I said. And then YOU confirmed it to by citing the 2700' DA you had for your 13.7 pass in your own stock LT1. I think Mr. Mojo is pretty forthcoming about his "mods" and times. That he wasn't on stock tires...who is on that almost 20 year old car?? I'm not. But my tires are probably worse than stock. Who knows. Who cares. It's not like the C6 where the stock run flat vs. a non runflat actually makes a meanignful diff. Eitherway, Mr Mojo isn't the "end all" of LT1's there were several I've sent you links for that have run low 13's. That is what I'd be running if I were at that elevation again. That is the diff elevation makes.


That's cool. Not sure what that has to do w/anything, but...



Do you know where I live? Where do you suggest that I drive to? I'd be THRILLED if MIR (or similar) was 3.5 hours away. I can drive:
*5 hours to run at 2200' elevation with a 4000' DA at Vegas.
*Or 8 hours to run at Bandimire which is higher than our track.
*Or 10+ hours for a track in CA. Sure hope I don't break anything though! You can see that it's not all that practical or even managable for me to just "drive to another track". Although I HAVE driven the 5 hours to Vegas and run there...which is where I have seen first hand, the effects of elevation....of course not to mention when I originally moved from Mass to Utah.

Don't forget after all this "fussing" about my LT1 numbers...there is my C6 numbers as well.

Kyle Lemish

Might want to rephrase that! Im pretty sure the LPE bolt on car would have no problem running 10's at your track.....Being it ran 9.8's here.


All places in our great country have their ups and downs......I am jealous as hell of your skiing!

I guess we are back to the original ? how this all got started and I stand by what I say......Altitude does not affect a supercharged car as bad as a NA car!

Tom400CFI

You're right. I meant stock, neglected to type that though.


True enough! I'm jealous of (or miss) your drag tracks, (real) lakes and the Mtn Biking there.



O.K. Invite is open. Come in late March and ski (for free) AND run your car at the strip.

Chicago1

I hate having to run at 5600 feet above sea level with a DA of 8k plus. The car feels like a geo metro

Racer

Maybe not as bad, but it does big time. My S/C Z06 could only pull 5lbs here in Calgary (aprox 3500ft), down at 750 feet it pulled the 7 lbs it was built to do. No o2 is no 02, plain and simple, unless you can compensate by turning the vanes quicker etc with pulley changes etc to get more of that bad air in.

Kyle Lemish

Correct but keep in mind your car probably does not have a pressure relief valve that operates like the ZR1 does.....at low levels its always bleeding off excess boost and I hear the valve open when im driving at altitudes above 3500' as well which means it has reached its 10.5 lbs.