[ZR1] The ZR1 bolt-on vrs The Sledgehammer!
06-13-2010, 02:49 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
While on the topic of the base body and top speed:
What would a base C6 with 715 whp (figure 800 at the flywheel) with a Z51 MN6 transmission, 4.10 gears and a 26.5 inch tall rear tire top out at? I know what it pulls at the top end of fifth (177 mph by the gear calculator) and can hit 225 or so in 6th if it has the power. The question is, with the power and gearing it has, what can it hit? Also, assuming traction, what do you think it does in the standing mile? Lastly, what are you using to calculate all this?
What would a base C6 with 715 whp (figure 800 at the flywheel) with a Z51 MN6 transmission, 4.10 gears and a 26.5 inch tall rear tire top out at? I know what it pulls at the top end of fifth (177 mph by the gear calculator) and can hit 225 or so in 6th if it has the power. The question is, with the power and gearing it has, what can it hit? Also, assuming traction, what do you think it does in the standing mile? Lastly, what are you using to calculate all this?
06-13-2010, 08:07 AM
#42
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06-14-2010, 08:15 AM
#43
According to this version of the truth the ZR1 could be dynamic enough with say perhaps solid lifters!
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingvette
The LS9 does not need any stinkin turbos
Simple changes without even touching the engine will greatly increase the existing supercharger output.
GM controls the amount of boost via the boost table in the PCM
Code:
400 600 800 1000 1200 1400 1600 1800 2000 2200 2400 2600 2800 3000 3200 3400 3600 3800 4000 4200 4400 4600 4800 5200 5600 6000 6400 6800 7200 7600 8000 8400 8592
Boost
30.1 30.1 30.1 30.1 30.1 35.1 40.2 45.2 47.2 53.2 55.2 60.2 61.2 62.2 63.2 64.3 65.3 67.3 69.3 71.3 73.3 75.3 77.3 79.3 81.3 83.3 85.3 90.4 90.4 90.4 90.4 90.4 90.4
Just think of the gain where at 2600 RPM the boost is at only 60%, increase the values in that table and instant gains.
Being the ZR1 has a triple function fuel pump system with it's own controller the fuel pressure can go as high as 87 PSI where all other C6/C5 models was only about 60 PSI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingvette
The LS9 does not need any stinkin turbos
Simple changes without even touching the engine will greatly increase the existing supercharger output.
GM controls the amount of boost via the boost table in the PCM
Code:
400 600 800 1000 1200 1400 1600 1800 2000 2200 2400 2600 2800 3000 3200 3400 3600 3800 4000 4200 4400 4600 4800 5200 5600 6000 6400 6800 7200 7600 8000 8400 8592
Boost
30.1 30.1 30.1 30.1 30.1 35.1 40.2 45.2 47.2 53.2 55.2 60.2 61.2 62.2 63.2 64.3 65.3 67.3 69.3 71.3 73.3 75.3 77.3 79.3 81.3 83.3 85.3 90.4 90.4 90.4 90.4 90.4 90.4
Just think of the gain where at 2600 RPM the boost is at only 60%, increase the values in that table and instant gains.
Being the ZR1 has a triple function fuel pump system with it's own controller the fuel pressure can go as high as 87 PSI where all other C6/C5 models was only about 60 PSI.
There is another table that controls boost throughout the RPM range as to prevent overboost (base boost DC or something), its one of those tables you ONLY need to edit when you pully down.
Id love to hear more on you're theory here because yes the PD blower on the ZR1 barely makes boost at lower rpms which defeats the purpose all together, that being said I never owned another PD blower car (I do have a range rover sport and a G55 which both have PD blowers but no boost gauge) so I dont know how soon that thing should be boosting up.
I do remembera friend of mine with a Magna 122 C6 making 11psi on the stock motor, that thing was INSANELY FAST.
Last edited by zeshawn; 06-14-2010 at 08:22 AM.
06-14-2010, 03:03 PM
#44
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Ramping up boost isn't anything new!
[QUOTE=zeshawn;1574388164]there is no such thing, at least you cannot view/edit this table with HPTuners if it does indeed exist.
Yes, that chart did look trumped upped to me since the ZR1 only goes to 6500RPM, but, I found out like you said that there was something like that boost table at various other postings. I was told GM had the extra RPMs for the tuners. I figured maybe it was for the solid lifters GM didn't put in (didn't sound like GM to me though).
Anyway, for a streetable production higher power car I don't think GM had any choice! Most wondered how they would make a driveable boosted Vette. I hear some people still have problems with traction!
Maybe GM reads mags too: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
I have to boost control my C5 turbo quite a bit to keep it on the street in a straight line.
Yes, that chart did look trumped upped to me since the ZR1 only goes to 6500RPM, but, I found out like you said that there was something like that boost table at various other postings. I was told GM had the extra RPMs for the tuners. I figured maybe it was for the solid lifters GM didn't put in (didn't sound like GM to me though).
Anyway, for a streetable production higher power car I don't think GM had any choice! Most wondered how they would make a driveable boosted Vette. I hear some people still have problems with traction!
Maybe GM reads mags too: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
I have to boost control my C5 turbo quite a bit to keep it on the street in a straight line.
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-14-2010 at 03:21 PM.
06-14-2010, 06:01 PM
#45
[QUOTE=johnglenntwo;1574391541]
I didnt read the article you posted about the wastegate on a centri why? because a few years ago, I had it in mind and I was doing it then I totalled my car before I built the motor for more boost >.<
That being told, I also didnt know how to get a 1.5psi wastegate spring, I had to cut one or something, because the wastegate would have to be installed on the cold-side obviously and the pressure is about half that the wastegates face when in a turbo's exhaust.
Taylor from dallasperformance then came up with a THROTTLE body type of thing mated onto some switchplate installed on the shifter which is set (by trial and error i assume) to limit the blower to x amount of boost per gear, that does have its negative effects as well as the blower is compressing air that ends up being bled off, this also however reduces the parasitic loss a supercharger has to face since it does not have to BOOST the manifold infact a big portion just escapes through a free-flowing atmosphere dump.
Now on the ZR1, I dont know what this has to do with lifters hope someone can explain, but if its possible I would DEFINITELY want to open up that SC and give the car some more torque in the lower rpm ranges that itself would make for a HUGE bump in torque, maybe not horsepower though.
there is no such thing, at least you cannot view/edit this table with HPTuners if it does indeed exist.
Yes, that chart did look trumped upped to me since the ZR1 only goes to 6500RPM, but, I found out like you said that there was something like that boost table at various other postings. I was told GM had the extra RPMs for the tuners. I figured maybe it was for the solid lifters GM didn't put in (didn't sound like GM to me though).
Anyway, for a streetable production higher power car I don't think GM had any choice! Most wondered how they would make a driveable boosted Vette. I hear some people still have problems with traction!
Maybe GM reads mags too: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
I have to boost control my C5 turbo quite a bit to keep it on the street in a straight line.
Yes, that chart did look trumped upped to me since the ZR1 only goes to 6500RPM, but, I found out like you said that there was something like that boost table at various other postings. I was told GM had the extra RPMs for the tuners. I figured maybe it was for the solid lifters GM didn't put in (didn't sound like GM to me though).
Anyway, for a streetable production higher power car I don't think GM had any choice! Most wondered how they would make a driveable boosted Vette. I hear some people still have problems with traction!
Maybe GM reads mags too: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
I have to boost control my C5 turbo quite a bit to keep it on the street in a straight line.
That being told, I also didnt know how to get a 1.5psi wastegate spring, I had to cut one or something, because the wastegate would have to be installed on the cold-side obviously and the pressure is about half that the wastegates face when in a turbo's exhaust.
Taylor from dallasperformance then came up with a THROTTLE body type of thing mated onto some switchplate installed on the shifter which is set (by trial and error i assume) to limit the blower to x amount of boost per gear, that does have its negative effects as well as the blower is compressing air that ends up being bled off, this also however reduces the parasitic loss a supercharger has to face since it does not have to BOOST the manifold infact a big portion just escapes through a free-flowing atmosphere dump.
Now on the ZR1, I dont know what this has to do with lifters hope someone can explain, but if its possible I would DEFINITELY want to open up that SC and give the car some more torque in the lower rpm ranges that itself would make for a HUGE bump in torque, maybe not horsepower though.
06-14-2010, 06:34 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=zeshawn;1574393412][QUOTE=johnglenntwo;1574391541]
Dumping to atmosphere is an energy waste. It is dumped into the intake in these bypass systems, I beleave.
Anyway, the stuff is out there and I can't wait to see a 1000+hp ZR1 bolt-on with turbos ramming in running at the Salt Flats at 256mph.
Dumping to atmosphere is an energy waste. It is dumped into the intake in these bypass systems, I beleave.
Anyway, the stuff is out there and I can't wait to see a 1000+hp ZR1 bolt-on with turbos ramming in running at the Salt Flats at 256mph.
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-23-2010 at 10:52 PM.
06-28-2010, 10:52 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Done!
When? 
Anyway, a ZR1 bolt-on 1000+hp if necessary (turbos through the supercharger) to do the deed:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...its/index.html
The ultimate all around Vette (The Perfect Weapon)
1) How about a 2012 factory special edition
a) More efficient, cooler charge temperature, and smaller(with the supercharger) turbos through the supercharger for ~800BHP(680rwhp) with extended midrange torque( MAX torque from 3800RPM back toward NA's 4600RPM), and less smog; kits exist to MOD
b) A 2.73 gear(exists) for:
Gear MPH
1 82
2 117
3 156
4 188
5 232
6 255 at 5900rpm (a real overdrive for more MPG (25%?)!)
c) Bye Bye stock mufflers thanks to the turbos and the pair of flapped stock muffler tips with a pair of open tip replaceable tuned Supertraps; easy
d) Rear mounts could suck lift out of the back or like a MAG reported the 1 million$ Ferrari 599 MOD as having fans blowing the air out of the back (Love those MAG articles); easy
e) More MAFS; exists
g) High speed high boost(no ramping) enable skip shift steering wheel boost switch (exotic tech equalizer); easy
2) Aftermarket for the track setups
a) A second fuel pump kit(exists) with larger injectors(exists) to ~1150BHP(980rwhp) on race fuel(exists)
b) Various PCM programs
c) Track tire changes; easy/exists
d) Cat race pipes; easy
e) A serious extractor hood; exists
f) Extend the nose skirt down an inch; easy
g) More clutch; exists
h) One car setups for:
1) 9s 3rd gear QTRS with 2s 0-60s
2) 5th gear 200MPH mile's
3) 1st gear autocross's
4) More road racing capability with less stick shifting, a removeable wing(exists), lowering(easy?), and a special alignment(easy?)
5) 250+mph(new in a bolt-on Vette); lowered/easy? plus the turbo system and a temporary few hundred pounds racked in back; easy
I CAN ONLY DROOL OVER THE ABOVE CONCEPT!
BAD ***!
Imagine the sounds!
The ZR1 bolt-on IS "The Perfect Weapon"!
Anyway, a ZR1 bolt-on 1000+hp if necessary (turbos through the supercharger) to do the deed:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...its/index.html
The ultimate all around Vette (The Perfect Weapon)
1) How about a 2012 factory special edition
a) More efficient, cooler charge temperature, and smaller(with the supercharger) turbos through the supercharger for ~800BHP(680rwhp) with extended midrange torque( MAX torque from 3800RPM back toward NA's 4600RPM), and less smog; kits exist to MOD
b) A 2.73 gear(exists) for:
Gear MPH
1 82
2 117
3 156
4 188
5 232
6 255 at 5900rpm (a real overdrive for more MPG (25%?)!)
c) Bye Bye stock mufflers thanks to the turbos and the pair of flapped stock muffler tips with a pair of open tip replaceable tuned Supertraps; easy
d) Rear mounts could suck lift out of the back or like a MAG reported the 1 million$ Ferrari 599 MOD as having fans blowing the air out of the back (Love those MAG articles); easy
e) More MAFS; exists
g) High speed high boost(no ramping) enable skip shift steering wheel boost switch (exotic tech equalizer); easy
2) Aftermarket for the track setups
a) A second fuel pump kit(exists) with larger injectors(exists) to ~1150BHP(980rwhp) on race fuel(exists)
b) Various PCM programs
c) Track tire changes; easy/exists
d) Cat race pipes; easy
e) A serious extractor hood; exists
f) Extend the nose skirt down an inch; easy
g) More clutch; exists
h) One car setups for:
1) 9s 3rd gear QTRS with 2s 0-60s
2) 5th gear 200MPH mile's
3) 1st gear autocross's
4) More road racing capability with less stick shifting, a removeable wing(exists), lowering(easy?), and a special alignment(easy?)
5) 250+mph(new in a bolt-on Vette); lowered/easy? plus the turbo system and a temporary few hundred pounds racked in back; easy
I CAN ONLY DROOL OVER THE ABOVE CONCEPT!
BAD ***!
Imagine the sounds!
The ZR1 bolt-on IS "The Perfect Weapon"!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 08-25-2010 at 10:33 PM.
07-11-2010, 05:31 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Just reference info!
Turbosuperchargers in the B-17's over 70-years ago!
http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei=...XD4SbNVZFu_w--
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/geturbo/geturbo.htm
The turbosupercharged 427CI Zenvo ST1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZVuN...eature=related
http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei=...XD4SbNVZFu_w--
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/geturbo/geturbo.htm
The turbosupercharged 427CI Zenvo ST1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZVuN...eature=related
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 08-22-2010 at 05:15 PM.
