[Z06] SPONSORS:What CAM will ET/MPH the best driveability offered?
07-13-2011, 02:18 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
SPONSORS:What CAM will ET/MPH the best driveability offered?
I've been doing A LOT of thinking and checking into things and after this fall/winter its going to be time to chase the internal modified C6Z06s. So I want to see graphs, ET's, DA's, and sure throw out there what supporting mods are recommended/required to make things work as "advertised". I want the best ET/MPH I can get with the BEST DRIVEABILITY! YUP DOUBLE NEGATIVE!
So we are all clear and cover as many variables as possible.
Vehicle: 2008 C6Z06 6spd-FORVER! NO AUTOS! Stock trans/stock rear
Raceweight (w/driver) 3250lbs estimate.
Current ET/MPH-power level 10.34-10.36 @133-135mph- 475rwhp/462rwtq dynojet. DA ranging from -1000 to +1000. Stock Cam/Heads internals etc.
Current Engine modifications:
MONSTER STAGE 3 CLUTCH
Fast 102 intake unported
Stock TB ported (already dynoed a NW102 and its worth 1hp Not doing it again)
ARH Long tubes, Off road Xpipe, Corsa Catback
Meizere elec waterpump/160tstat
TR6 plugs, MSD wires
Vararam
Tune
Looking at most likely a cam only set up. The thought of changing the exhaust valves is there with the heads but I think that would make me a heads cam car?
Goals with set up: Fastest cam only or internal modded stock shortblock C6Z06.
I do drive the car A LOT! Bucking (insert BS about tuner here) is not something I want a lot of. I understand there will be some. I understand anyone can blame tuners for surging until they have the car in front of them and say thats the best they can get w/o hurting performance. I've delt with that previously. So I dont need a HUGE cam. MY guess I'll need something that carries a similar to stock TQ range from down low straight up through but higher and then HP that obviously out performs the stock cam abilities. Car will have a 7,000rpm shift point. I will most likely be putting in a newer MONSTER Stage X? clutch to handle the higher power level.
My guess I'll need a cam with gains around 65-80rwhp/60-75rwtq with my modifications there already and retuned obviously on the dyno I normally dyno on.
Obviously the car will be ran close to sea level or lower DA.
Plain and simple if you want to really show your cam works and I WILL MAKE IT WORK as you PROMISE! There will be a 9.XX cam only or cam only changed exhaust valves C6Z. THERE IS NOT ONE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Wanna be first lets hear it???????????
INSERT CAM HERE!
INSERT COMPETITIONS CAMS HERE!
Current fast list: Notice technically I'm already #2 if I had say aftermarket valve springs
!
Internal Engine Mods plus Bolt-Ons
========================
Rank~~ E.T.~~ Trap~ 60'~ Driver~~~~~ M.Yr. Details Thread Video
1~~~~ ~9.977 139.39 1.44 rattt g~~~~~~ 2007 details~~ thread video
2~~~~ 10.465 133.70 1.57 tkr ~~~~~~~~ 2008 details~~ thread video
3~~~~ 10.525 132.71 1.57 07WhiteDevilZ~ 2007 details~~ thread
4~~~~ 10.560 132.78 1.56 Strange ~~~~~ 2008 details~~
5~~~~ 10.580 132.70 1.65 Burnin4 ~~~~~ 2008 details~~ thread video
6~~~~ 10.594 134.70 1.58 RichieRichZ06~ 2006 details~~ thread video
7~~~~ 10.629 130.91 1.59 MR Z ~~~~~~~ 2006 details~~ thread
8~~~~ 10.644 133.43 1.74 BillyT C6Z~~~~ 2007 details~~ thread video
9~~~~ 10.672 132.14 1.61 Retrotech~~~~ 2007 details~~ thread video
10 ~~~ 10.695 132.67 1.70 lane_change~~ 2006 details~~
FYI--Sebast made me do it!
So we are all clear and cover as many variables as possible.
Vehicle: 2008 C6Z06 6spd-FORVER! NO AUTOS! Stock trans/stock rear
Raceweight (w/driver) 3250lbs estimate.
Current ET/MPH-power level 10.34-10.36 @133-135mph- 475rwhp/462rwtq dynojet. DA ranging from -1000 to +1000. Stock Cam/Heads internals etc.
Current Engine modifications:
MONSTER STAGE 3 CLUTCH
Fast 102 intake unported
Stock TB ported (already dynoed a NW102 and its worth 1hp Not doing it again)
ARH Long tubes, Off road Xpipe, Corsa Catback
Meizere elec waterpump/160tstat
TR6 plugs, MSD wires
Vararam
Tune
Looking at most likely a cam only set up. The thought of changing the exhaust valves is there with the heads but I think that would make me a heads cam car?
Goals with set up: Fastest cam only or internal modded stock shortblock C6Z06.
I do drive the car A LOT! Bucking (insert BS about tuner here) is not something I want a lot of. I understand there will be some. I understand anyone can blame tuners for surging until they have the car in front of them and say thats the best they can get w/o hurting performance. I've delt with that previously. So I dont need a HUGE cam. MY guess I'll need something that carries a similar to stock TQ range from down low straight up through but higher and then HP that obviously out performs the stock cam abilities. Car will have a 7,000rpm shift point. I will most likely be putting in a newer MONSTER Stage X? clutch to handle the higher power level.
My guess I'll need a cam with gains around 65-80rwhp/60-75rwtq with my modifications there already and retuned obviously on the dyno I normally dyno on.
Obviously the car will be ran close to sea level or lower DA.
Plain and simple if you want to really show your cam works and I WILL MAKE IT WORK as you PROMISE! There will be a 9.XX cam only or cam only changed exhaust valves C6Z. THERE IS NOT ONE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Wanna be first lets hear it???????????
INSERT CAM HERE!
INSERT COMPETITIONS CAMS HERE!
Current fast list: Notice technically I'm already #2 if I had say aftermarket valve springs
!Internal Engine Mods plus Bolt-Ons
========================
Rank~~ E.T.~~ Trap~ 60'~ Driver~~~~~ M.Yr. Details Thread Video
1~~~~ ~9.977 139.39 1.44 rattt g~~~~~~ 2007 details~~ thread video
2~~~~ 10.465 133.70 1.57 tkr ~~~~~~~~ 2008 details~~ thread video
3~~~~ 10.525 132.71 1.57 07WhiteDevilZ~ 2007 details~~ thread
4~~~~ 10.560 132.78 1.56 Strange ~~~~~ 2008 details~~
5~~~~ 10.580 132.70 1.65 Burnin4 ~~~~~ 2008 details~~ thread video
6~~~~ 10.594 134.70 1.58 RichieRichZ06~ 2006 details~~ thread video
7~~~~ 10.629 130.91 1.59 MR Z ~~~~~~~ 2006 details~~ thread
8~~~~ 10.644 133.43 1.74 BillyT C6Z~~~~ 2007 details~~ thread video
9~~~~ 10.672 132.14 1.61 Retrotech~~~~ 2007 details~~ thread video
10 ~~~ 10.695 132.67 1.70 lane_change~~ 2006 details~~
FYI--Sebast made me do it!
Last edited by Fartpipe; 07-14-2011 at 08:51 AM.
I was looking for the requisite comment about Sebast.
07-13-2011, 07:06 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
notn41 why did you choose the cam you did and whats your goals? ET or MPH?, dyno? street racing?
Torque is very important to get the momentum of the car out of the hole and allows you to launch the car at a lower RPM (equals less parts abused as severely). This gives better 60fts/330fts. However you need that lovely HP to continue the pull once the car is sustaining a longer period of time from the 330ft on in that 6000rpm plus range where your MPH/ET comes into play.
I'm not as concerned about a cool sounding cam as some people do desire. I dont care if it sounds like elephants farting at idle. As long as when I pull up to the line or along that lovely new Boss mustang owner with the supercharger revving 8000rpms of pure sucks and show him he made a big $$$ mistake i'll be all the happier.
Torque is very important to get the momentum of the car out of the hole and allows you to launch the car at a lower RPM (equals less parts abused as severely). This gives better 60fts/330fts. However you need that lovely HP to continue the pull once the car is sustaining a longer period of time from the 330ft on in that 6000rpm plus range where your MPH/ET comes into play.
I'm not as concerned about a cool sounding cam as some people do desire. I dont care if it sounds like elephants farting at idle. As long as when I pull up to the line or along that lovely new Boss mustang owner with the supercharger revving 8000rpms of pure sucks and show him he made a big $$$ mistake i'll be all the happier.
07-13-2011, 10:22 PM
#5
Drifting
Member Since: Oct 2009
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Custom grind cam! My opinion that's what you want. Talk to someone about your goals that knows what they are doing and have them design a cam. That's what I did and can't be happier. Good luck in your goal!!
07-13-2011, 10:35 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2008
Location: Morgantown WV
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TSP LS7S traps 130mph in a 2500DA. Ill have to dig up my dyno sheets but it made 515 on a mustang dyno and 527 on a dynojet. Cant think of the TQ numbers offhand. I have surging. Its a good trade off for power for me but if you drive in the city alot I would not have a cam.
Vararam and Kooks LT's w/ catted X are the supporting mods.
Vararam and Kooks LT's w/ catted X are the supporting mods.
07-14-2011, 07:40 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
07-14-2011, 08:34 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
07-14-2011, 08:42 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
07-14-2011, 12:13 PM
#11
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
Posts: 14,498
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St. Jude Donor '08
If tq is king then why not look into a Katech Torquer cam? I thought my previous cam only combo was good (6th place on the list on my first attempt out) but this Torquer cam is soooooo much better for low end. I am not sure of any Torquer cam only applications that are racing frequently, but I'd at least look into it.
07-14-2011, 01:10 PM
#12
Safety Car
Tell Pat G what you want, what you've got, and have him spec out a custom grind cam.
The tuner will make all the difference in drivability. My buddy's 25X/26X with 29* overlap drives just as well as any other cammed Z out there. If you go with a huge cam, you will probably want to run open loop.
The tuner will make all the difference in drivability. My buddy's 25X/26X with 29* overlap drives just as well as any other cammed Z out there. If you go with a huge cam, you will probably want to run open loop.
07-14-2011, 01:41 PM
#13
I don't think you will get many responses from vendors. If they do decide to respond, it'll probably be a vague "call me and I'll hook you up with a package" type response. Everyone making a living doing this work will have their own ideas and recipe's for what you want to achieve. They are not about to share those recipe's with any usable detail on a public forum. Call LG and ask them what their LS7 cam specs are to illustrate that point.
What you want is not unreasonable. It's actually good common sense. Torque is what you feel, what moves the car, what makes it fun to drive from off idle to red line. Unless you want to competitively race the quarter or steady state high rpm race, high rpm peak HP numbers serve no purpose other than compensation for some other inner issue that surgery or counseling might be better suited to resolve.
If you want to do the work yourself, and start spec'ing out components, good luck with that too. Unless you have a stack of dyno sheets from a test mule motor with rigid test parameters, you have to rely on what other's post or tell you, and that's pretty much worthless.
So....going back to the basics, high lift and low duration with minimal overlap is what you want for low end torque and a reasonably flat curve through the usable rpm range. But, that has trade offs.... High lift is hard on guides, springs, valve seats, cam lobes, etc. A compromise is needed where overlap is increased a bit to offset unreasonably high lift. Unfortunately, no one who has this all figured out (and proven with good data) will tell you exactly what you should do without a financial agreement. They got that data via investing tens of thousands of dollars experimenting with dyno's and swapping parts. It’s kind of hard to fault them for keeping this stuff close to the chest when you consider their investments. I've gotten good input calling the grinders and getting their input in the past. When you call them, be humble and honest with yourself. They may tell you something you don't want to hear.
Head porting can kill low rpm torque if not done right. Look to the porting wizards who work on increasing flow, but without increasing port size or reducing velocity. There are ways to work the ports that will increase flow throughout the valve travel without sacrificing velocity. You can have the heads milled a bit, but be careful. This is an art as dynamic CR plays into just how much static you can run and figuring out DCR is pretty tough when you consider the whirlwind of BS around it. SCR will have to play nice with the cam profile and type of fuel used.
What you want is not unreasonable. It's actually good common sense. Torque is what you feel, what moves the car, what makes it fun to drive from off idle to red line. Unless you want to competitively race the quarter or steady state high rpm race, high rpm peak HP numbers serve no purpose other than compensation for some other inner issue that surgery or counseling might be better suited to resolve.
If you want to do the work yourself, and start spec'ing out components, good luck with that too. Unless you have a stack of dyno sheets from a test mule motor with rigid test parameters, you have to rely on what other's post or tell you, and that's pretty much worthless.
So....going back to the basics, high lift and low duration with minimal overlap is what you want for low end torque and a reasonably flat curve through the usable rpm range. But, that has trade offs.... High lift is hard on guides, springs, valve seats, cam lobes, etc. A compromise is needed where overlap is increased a bit to offset unreasonably high lift. Unfortunately, no one who has this all figured out (and proven with good data) will tell you exactly what you should do without a financial agreement. They got that data via investing tens of thousands of dollars experimenting with dyno's and swapping parts. It’s kind of hard to fault them for keeping this stuff close to the chest when you consider their investments. I've gotten good input calling the grinders and getting their input in the past. When you call them, be humble and honest with yourself. They may tell you something you don't want to hear.
Head porting can kill low rpm torque if not done right. Look to the porting wizards who work on increasing flow, but without increasing port size or reducing velocity. There are ways to work the ports that will increase flow throughout the valve travel without sacrificing velocity. You can have the heads milled a bit, but be careful. This is an art as dynamic CR plays into just how much static you can run and figuring out DCR is pretty tough when you consider the whirlwind of BS around it. SCR will have to play nice with the cam profile and type of fuel used.
07-14-2011, 01:45 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hey DSECK thanks for the advice..... I had a Pat G cam in my C5 when i did the 410ci. I was less than happy with it regrettfully. Pat is a very nice guy and was very helpful. However the car just drove horribly down low and peaked almost 600rpm sooner than it was supposed to. However it sure did make the #'s i requested HP/TQ wise just not where I wanted it to and the driveability was just poop no matter how much or whom played with it.
I just figured all these cam experts and shops in this forum might be able to take this chance to really show off what they have and how great it really is. So far FRAN at RPM has texted me in regards to his idea for the car. One other contacted via PM but not on here where everyone would see and see how the competitors cams stack up.
I just figured all these cam experts and shops in this forum might be able to take this chance to really show off what they have and how great it really is. So far FRAN at RPM has texted me in regards to his idea for the car. One other contacted via PM but not on here where everyone would see and see how the competitors cams stack up.
07-14-2011, 01:54 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Fantastic response Michael_D and very informative. Thank you. I will say I'm not looking for someone to say their cam specs on here. But I'm sure those selling cams have dyno comparisons, have customers with said cams/setups, the basics to inform me the customer what they recommend. I've seen more than my fair share of the videos of people showing how driveable their cam is with the car put in 6th gear at 1100rpm driving along not bucking. However what most dont realize is thats putting a heavy load on the engine which in MOST cases will not buck or surge. Surging typically comes from the low load area with the car given very little gas or almost no gas.
I don't think you will get many responses from vendors. If they do decide to respond, it'll probably be a vague "call me and I'll hook you up with a package" type response. Everyone making a living doing this work will have their own ideas and recipe's for what you want to achieve. They are not about to share those recipe's with any usable detail on a public forum. Call LG and ask them what their LS7 cam specs are to illustrate that point.
What you want is not unreasonable. It's actually good common sense. Torque is what you feel, what moves the car, what makes it fun to drive from off idle to red line. Unless you want to competitively race the quarter or steady state high rpm race, high rpm peak HP numbers serve no purpose other than compensation for some other inner issue that surgery or counseling might be better suited to resolve.
If you want to do the work yourself, and start spec'ing out components, good luck with that too. Unless you have a stack of dyno sheets from a test mule motor with rigid test parameters, you have to rely on what other's post or tell you, and that's pretty much worthless.
So....going back to the basics, high lift and low duration with minimal overlap is what you want for low end torque and a reasonably flat curve through the usable rpm range. But, that has trade offs.... High lift is hard on guides, springs, valve seats, cam lobes, etc. A compromise is needed where overlap is increased a bit to offset unreasonably high lift. Unfortunately, no one who has this all figured out (and proven with good data) will tell you exactly what you should do without a financial agreement. They got that data via investing tens of thousands of dollars experimenting with dyno's and swapping parts. It’s kind of hard to fault them for keeping this stuff close to the chest when you consider their investments. I've gotten good input calling the grinders and getting their input in the past. When you call them, be humble and honest with yourself. They may tell you something you don't want to hear.
Head porting can kill low rpm torque if not done right. Look to the porting wizards who work on increasing flow, but without increasing port size or reducing velocity. There are ways to work the ports that will increase flow throughout the valve travel without sacrificing velocity. You can have the heads milled a bit, but be careful. This is an art as dynamic CR plays into just how much static you can run and figuring out DCR is pretty tough when you consider the whirlwind of BS around it. SCR will have to play nice with the cam profile and type of fuel used.
What you want is not unreasonable. It's actually good common sense. Torque is what you feel, what moves the car, what makes it fun to drive from off idle to red line. Unless you want to competitively race the quarter or steady state high rpm race, high rpm peak HP numbers serve no purpose other than compensation for some other inner issue that surgery or counseling might be better suited to resolve.
If you want to do the work yourself, and start spec'ing out components, good luck with that too. Unless you have a stack of dyno sheets from a test mule motor with rigid test parameters, you have to rely on what other's post or tell you, and that's pretty much worthless.
So....going back to the basics, high lift and low duration with minimal overlap is what you want for low end torque and a reasonably flat curve through the usable rpm range. But, that has trade offs.... High lift is hard on guides, springs, valve seats, cam lobes, etc. A compromise is needed where overlap is increased a bit to offset unreasonably high lift. Unfortunately, no one who has this all figured out (and proven with good data) will tell you exactly what you should do without a financial agreement. They got that data via investing tens of thousands of dollars experimenting with dyno's and swapping parts. It’s kind of hard to fault them for keeping this stuff close to the chest when you consider their investments. I've gotten good input calling the grinders and getting their input in the past. When you call them, be humble and honest with yourself. They may tell you something you don't want to hear.
Head porting can kill low rpm torque if not done right. Look to the porting wizards who work on increasing flow, but without increasing port size or reducing velocity. There are ways to work the ports that will increase flow throughout the valve travel without sacrificing velocity. You can have the heads milled a bit, but be careful. This is an art as dynamic CR plays into just how much static you can run and figuring out DCR is pretty tough when you consider the whirlwind of BS around it. SCR will have to play nice with the cam profile and type of fuel used.
07-14-2011, 04:12 PM
#16
Former Vendor
Mr. Fart...
When you get serious, give me a call, you know how to find me.
My vote is: let's build you a custom cam/set up and go from there. You'll want something that promotes good cylinder pressure with a nice wide powerband and fat torque but yet not too racy.
If after all that you DON'T get into the 9's, then I will have to (a) go up north and drive it myself or (b) ask your Canadian buddy to show you how to do it
Gracias Vato,
Carlos
When you get serious, give me a call, you know how to find me.
My vote is: let's build you a custom cam/set up and go from there. You'll want something that promotes good cylinder pressure with a nice wide powerband and fat torque but yet not too racy.
If after all that you DON'T get into the 9's, then I will have to (a) go up north and drive it myself or (b) ask your Canadian buddy to show you how to do it
Gracias Vato,
Carlos
07-14-2011, 11:45 PM
#18
Safety Car
Hey DSECK thanks for the advice..... I had a Pat G cam in my C5 when i did the 410ci. I was less than happy with it regrettfully. Pat is a very nice guy and was very helpful. However the car just drove horribly down low and peaked almost 600rpm sooner than it was supposed to. However it sure did make the #'s i requested HP/TQ wise just not where I wanted it to and the driveability was just poop no matter how much or whom played with it.
I just figured all these cam experts and shops in this forum might be able to take this chance to really show off what they have and how great it really is. So far FRAN at RPM has texted me in regards to his idea for the car. One other contacted via PM but not on here where everyone would see and see how the competitors cams stack up.
I just figured all these cam experts and shops in this forum might be able to take this chance to really show off what they have and how great it really is. So far FRAN at RPM has texted me in regards to his idea for the car. One other contacted via PM but not on here where everyone would see and see how the competitors cams stack up.
